According to the police statement, viewing the videos and reading various articles it appears the SUV driver changed lanes from the right lane to the right turn lane to turn right at the intersection where people were protesting. He slowed down to a few MPH and started honking his horn to get the protesters to move out of his way. Other protesters ran to the location to crowd around and jump on the SUV. Remember the pink haired young lady. So at this point it would have been justified for one of the protesters in front of the SUV to pull out a gun and shoot and kill the driver in self defense because the SUV was being used as a lethal weapon? How about when the driver was shot from the side of the vehicle and he sped off and could have run over a protester in front of him. If that protester pulled out a gun and shot and killed the driver it would have been justified? And the first shooter is in court for murder and he says, but your honor, the SUV was coming at me doing 3 MPH and could have killed me. You and Vic need to come up with something better than that.
First, I offered what I think it's a reasonable response earlier in the thread:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/antifa-fires-into-suv.2582454/post-40212301.
Second, unless UT laws are drastically different than any state I've searched in my life, then pedestrians have the right of way, always. Honking your horn doesn't change that. If someone doesn't move, youre not to just drive thru them.
Third, yea, cars can be the cause of imminent danger. My state has a duty to retreat law, not a stand your ground law. It would be much harder to legally justify shooting a driver while you're in a crosswalk and they're not stopping, probably would still get charged with something. MA is no joke about gun's. My original opinion was formed around watching the videos and reading the articles that were available online. Also, using google maps to observe the intersection. So far, it hasn't change.
The driver was not justified driving thru a crosswalk that had people in it, and there's two lines of cars stopped at the light next to him (and one of those lines is in a Bus Only lane?).
Fourth, whether or not someone in front of the SUV would be justified legally would be up to UT's self defense laws. Whether or not you agree isn't the issue. Personally, if UT has similar self defense laws to other states out there, then yea...in this situation with the video available and the drivers obvious aggressive driving, a person could be justified as self defense. But really, this didn't happen, so whatevs.
Fifth, After the shots were fired. This is a grey area, and I'm admittedly not a legal mind. The driver at that point had changed from aggressor to victim, IMO. Could this be treated like other crimes where the people committing the crime are responsible for all the fall out?
I mean, I don't need to come up with anything better than anything, I'll just stick with the facts as they come out. The shooter was on the side of the vehicle, not in danger, and not justified in any way, IMO. This isn't up for debate, and I never tried to. I could even see holding the shooter liable for injuries when the driver fled.
Sixth, in the post that you quoted, my point still stands. It's a little weird that people would start debating at what point in their lives they would feel justified driving thru a crosswalk with people in it. At that point, you're ready for jail (unless you're a LEO, then totes coo)
Anyways, hope this clears up what you think my stance is.
edit: Ok, I googled it:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Utah+stand+your+ground&atb=v217-1&ia=web
Based on the internet information, someone in front of the vehicle could easily make the case. Doesn't seem debatable. But, again, that's not what happened here.
2nd edit:
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter2/76-2-S401.html
That's the sections of UT law that handle this. The shooter's lawyer may argue self defense, UT SYG laws extend to people around you. Personally, I think that would be bullshit, the shooter tried to hide the gun and kept on protesting, but I could still see a defense lawyer try to make the case.
And FWIW, I'm not surprised the SUV driver won't be charged at this time. The CJ system persons really aren't a fan of the protestors. We all know that police and DA's charge people selectively.
