Another failed prediction......Netanyahu...

[JohnOfSheffield]

The Palestinian's right or return is not legit.

They attacked Israel; they ran away from Israel and sided with the losing side.
Yet they expect to be rewarded.

So let Israel then pull the same stunt. They want to take over the West bank. If they fail; they deserve a second chance and a third chance for putting up a "valiant" effort.

That is what the Palestinians are asking for. A do over. So let Israel complete a do over - get rid of all the Palestinians that left Israel - push them onto the Arabs that helped cause the problems.

Oh wait; Jordan does not want them because they tried to cause troubles in Jordan.

The complete Sinai is available - Egypt contributed continually to the problem; push the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank and move them out.

settlement issue is the only thing that will drive the Palestinians to the peace table. When Israel gives in to the Palestinian demands, new demands come out.
so let Israel force the issue. Talk or settlements - take your choice. That will hopefully get their attention in the next 5-10 years.

Pease and acceptance - simple but refused.

Except when Israel wants to legalise them in opposition to the treaty they agreed to with the geneva conventions that states quite clearly that an occupying force is not allowed to move residents into occupied territories.

I agree with everything but that is a CLEAR violation of international law and if we are EVER going to use the geneva conventions or international law as an incitament ever again then supporting THIS.... We just can't.

I don't, but if the UK wants to and show me that everything i ever done in my life was complete bullshit, they can do that. So can the US and every other nation that wants to, just don't expect more than a laugh the next time you bring up international laws or the geneva conventions. Thankfully i will not have to be part of the downfall of what was once highly regarded and upheld even by our enemies.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I don't hate Jews, i just hate evertyhing they do and everything they say.

Just go away you ridiculous Nazist.

 

[Lemon law]

So how about that Hamas charter? How are you going to spin that? It is fundamental, a reflection of their character.

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As EK somewhat makes a good point, but on deeper examination, its still boils down to bullshit. Israel does not recognize the Hamas right to exists and Hamas does not recognize the Israeli right to exist. As Hamas does not not want to repeat the Arifat mistake of recognizing Israel before Arifat inked a deal.

The point is and remains EK, in any dispute ending peace deal, neither side gets to choose the party they negotiate with, and that includes all nations including the USA. Why is the current Israeli government the only nation on earth with that delusion?

The point is and remains, its only after the deal is inked is the point reached that both parties must thereafter mutually recognize each other right to exist.

I may not be happy with Hamas policy and their inability to reunite with Fatah, but Hamas policy is no more unreasonable than current Israeli government fantasies that they can't talk to Hamas before Hamas recognizes Israelis right to deny them basic human rights.

 

[Lemon law]

The EK argument is based on total bullshit and clearly is against international law as EK says, "Originally Posted by EagleKeeper View Post
The Palestinian's right or return is not legit.

They attacked Israel; they ran away from Israel and sided with the losing side.
Yet they expect to be rewarded."

As if this is not a total pack of bullshit and something that runs counter to all tenets of international war crimes. As a more true statement may be, some fraction of Palestinians actively took up arms against Israel, does it even even exceed 50%, yet the 1948 Israeli government used that bogus reasoning to expel and disenfranchise all Palestinians without resorting to due process of law, that would establish guilt from innocence. As new born Palestinian babies who could not have raised their hand against Israel were judged as guilty as those that did.

Which is defined as a the international war crime of collective punishment. And if EK is proud of advocating past Israeli international war crimes, if the shoe fits, EK wear it. But cheer up EK, Israel now faces even more international war crimes on along the same lines of collective punishment.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The Palestinians left, planning on coming back when they could have it all. They abandoned their property. They chose not to stay. Those that chose to stay, Israel accepted them. So it was not a push them Arabs out. It is they left, who wants them. They were unwilling to stand along side Israel. They chose the losing side, they accepted the consequences. None of them would have cried a tear had Israel been on the losing end.

You want to reward them for their actions, yet refuse to condemned them for the actions that dug them in this hole.

The Arabs had 20 years to grant Palestine and they did not. Doing so would legitimize Israel. So the Arabs denied the Palestinians what they nod want, only when they are realizing that they can not have it all and are losing it piece by piece

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[JohnOfSheffield]

The Palestinians left, planning on coming back when they could have it all. They abandoned their property. They chose not to stay. Those that chose to stay, Israel accepted them. So it was not a push them Arabs out. It is they left, who wants them. They were unwilling to stand along side Israel. They chose the losing side, they accepted the consequences. None of them would have cried a tear had Israel been on the losing end.

You want to reward them for their actions, yet refuse to condemned them for the actions that dug them in this hole.

The Arabs had 20 years to grant Palestine and they did not. Doing so would legitimize Israel. So the Arabs denied the Palestinians what they nod want, only when they are realizing that they can not have it all and are losing it piece by piece

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This is entirely correct, there was a proposition and the Palestinians who mainly just moved into Jordan and Syria where they still remain, believed that the Arab states could remove israel.

They didn't want a two state solution then, said no thanks, Israel said yes, the arabs attacked and history was made.

Now people want to change history... it's not going to happen.

That said, ANY settlements in occupied territory are per definition illegal, Isreal is a signatory to the Geneva conventions which makes any settlements on occupied territory illegal, Israel cannot make them legal and if they declare them as such, they can no longer have the backing of the international community.

It's the worst choice they could possibly make, even *I* cannot support this.

 

[Lemon law]

As again the EK argument is based on the same bullshit as before as EK asserts, "The Palestinians left, planning on coming back when they could have it all. They abandoned their property. They chose not to stay. Those that chose to stay, Israel accepted them. So it was not a push them Arabs out. It is they left, who wants them. They were unwilling to stand along side Israel. They chose the losing side, they accepted the consequences. None of them would have cried a tear had Israel been on the losing end.

You want to reward them for their actions, yet refuse to condemned them for the actions that dug them in this hole.

The Arabs had 20 years to grant Palestine and they did not. Doing so would legitimize Israel. So the Arabs denied the Palestinians what they nod want, only when they are realizing that they can not have it all and are losing it piece by piece"

Which in fact is a two part bullsit argument as we already discussed. Some but not all Palestinians may be guilty of taking arms against Israeli, yet when Israel disenfranchised ALL Palestinians without due process of law in 1948, it is an remains the Israel international war crimes.

But the new EK bullshit lies in expecting surrounding Arab states to take in pennyless Palestinians robbed by Israel of their original homes in Israel. Quite properly so, the surrounding Arab states maintain, if Israel robbed Palestinians of their human rights it is and remains the responsibility of Israel to make the Palestinian whole.

EK is just plain crazy if he expects surrounding Arab States to be saddled with the guilt and sins of of Israeli thievery. As Israel will never become an accepted member of the mid-east community until it makes the Palestinian people whole and justly compensates them.

As EK and Israel are still in denial of the fact, in another time and era, Israel got away with their thievery, but this a new time and era, and Israeli government behavior is now internationally regarded as rude crude and socially unacceptable. And worse yet for Israel, that new era is only starting, but its going to get far far worse for Israel in future.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

WIR MUSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSROTTEN!

Yeah we know how you feel, just shut up.

 

[Lemon law]

Yeah we know how you feel, just shut up.

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Gotta love the JOS argument, when confronted by logic and a point of view JOS does not agree with, rather than debate issues rationally, JOS calls for me and others he does not agree with to just shut up.

A JOS Kindergartner's variation of Gresham's, law, the first to call the other side a big ninny automatically wins.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I express my hatred for Jews and do everything i can just to make everything the fault of Jews and then PEOPLE ARGUE WITH ME... WAAAhhhh how unfair... Waaahhhhhh mods i'm so sad please ban people for arguing with me again...

Son, you have never had a logic thought in your head, you are strictly anti-Jewish in every single issue that arises, even in threads that have nothing to do with Israel like the Gay marriage thread you can't help yourself, it's the Jews fault.

It doesn't matter what any thread is about, you ALWAYS do that.

As a Jew, it bothers me, if i had done the same against any other ethnicity i would never post again but for some reason, it's ok if you do it to Jews.

It's not just in this forum, it's in EVERY American forum, a good portion of Nazism is ok but say anything bad about any other ethnicity and you're banned.

It's getting pretty fucking tiresome and if i have to start shooting people for being tiresome, this forum has failed it's members.

 

[EagleKeeper]

As again the EK argument is based on the same bullshit as before as EK asserts, "The Palestinians left, planning on coming back when they could have it all. They abandoned their property. They chose not to stay. Those that chose to stay, Israel accepted them. So it was not a push them Arabs out. It is they left, who wants them. They were unwilling to stand along side Israel. They chose the losing side, they accepted the consequences. None of them would have cried a tear had Israel been on the losing end.

You want to reward them for their actions, yet refuse to condemned them for the actions that dug them in this hole.

The Arabs had 20 years to grant Palestine and they did not. Doing so would legitimize Israel. So the Arabs denied the Palestinians what they nod want, only when they are realizing that they can not have it all and are losing it piece by piece"

Which in fact is a two part bullsit argument as we already discussed. Some but not all Palestinians may be guilty of taking arms against Israeli, yet when Israel disenfranchised ALL Palestinians without due process of law in 1948, it is an remains the Israel international war crimes.

But the new EK bullshit lies in expecting surrounding Arab states to take in pennyless Palestinians robbed by Israel of their original homes in Israel. Quite properly so, the surrounding Arab states maintain, if Israel robbed Palestinians of their human rights it is and remains the responsibility of Israel to make the Palestinian whole.

EK is just plain crazy if he expects surrounding Arab States to be saddled with the guilt and sins of of Israeli thievery. As Israel will never become an accepted member of the mid-east community until it makes the Palestinian people whole and justly compensates them.

As EK and Israel are still in denial of the fact, in another time and era, Israel got away with their thievery, but this a new time and era, and Israeli government behavior is now internationally regarded as rude crude and socially unacceptable. And worse yet for Israel, that new era is only starting, but its going to get far far worse for Israel in future.

You are getting better and better and twisting my words around. Each time if demonstrates the desperation of being unable to refute the facts.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Lemon law]

You are getting better and better and twisting my words around. Each time if demonstrates the desperation of being unable to refute the facts.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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No EK, I debunked every phony justification you have come up with for Israel robbing its indigenous Palestinian of all land and human right in the period of 1948-51 and continuing on until today.

You still don't get it EK, 1948 Israel built itself on a rotten foundation of theft and human greed, and that foundation can no longer stand in a more modern and changing world.

THE ONLY WAY TO BUILD A SUSTAINABLE JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL LIES THROUGH A JUST PALESTINIAN PEACE.

And EK, even if you fail to see all the signs around you now, the Israel negotiating position is now far weaker than it was even two years ago.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

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No EK, I debunked every phony justification you have come up with for Israel robbing its indigenous Palestinian of all land and human right in the period of 1948-51 and continuing on until today.

You still don't get it EK, 1948 Israel built itself on a rotten foundation of theft and human greed, and that foundation can no longer stand in a more modern and changing world.

THE ONLY WAY TO BUILD A SUSTAINABLE JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL LIES THROUGH A JUST PALESTINIAN PEACE.

And EK, even if you fail to see all the signs around you now, the Israel negotiating position is now far weaker than it was even two years ago.

And by the very wording of the current Hamas charter that peace comes with the death of the Jews. It is dogma.

 

[Lemon law]

And by the very wording of the current Hamas charter that peace comes with the death of the Jews. It is dogma.

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Sorry Hayabusa, in any war and human conflict there are always those on both sides who would cheerfully slaughter the enemy down to the last women and child. And once the war starts, everyone in the country climbs on that kill em all bandwagon. Why should Hamas, which is a divided political party rather than a single robot mind be any different?

But as the war or conflict goes on and on and on, and the loses in blood and treasure mount up on all sides, its the moderates on both sides who finally make the compromises to get a lasting peace. Hamas, if they want a peace, will simply have to change their charter, or get voted out of power.

And hay, Haybausa, Israel is going through the same elections process even as we speak. And even if an far right extremist like Netanyuhu wins again, its unlikely such a government will last. Meanwhile both Hamas and Fatah, for the first time in history are reaching out diplomatically to the larger world. Of course Israel has and is doing the same thing, but more and more, Netanyuhu gets told by other nations that they no longer believe in his lies.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You have not refuted anything that I stated. Just tried to deflect.

The Palestinians sided with the Arabs in '48. The supplied manpower to the Arab armies to ghetto numbers of from 30-40%. There intentions were to take everything. People were promised everything ance advised to leave to get away from the conflict. Jordan had control of the West Bank for 20 years and NOTHING was done about. Palestinian state. Because the Arabs believed that they would still destroy Israel and everything would go back to normal. To accept a Palestinian system would legitimative Israel.

If Hamas wanted peace, they would clamp down on attacks from Gaza. They have the meandering, not the desire. The West Bank again encourage attackd on Israel.

They speak words, but will not back up their words.

Peace and security.

Why do the Palestinians continue to reject those to better off the population. Because they do not believe and think that they can be rewarded with accepting responsibility.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Lemon law]

You have not refuted anything that I stated. Just tried to deflect.

The Palestinians sided with the Arabs in '48. The supplied manpower to the Arab armies to ghetto numbers of from 30-40%. There intentions were to take everything. People were promised everything ance advised to leave to get away from the conflict. Jordan had control of the West Bank for 20 years and NOTHING was done about. Palestinian state. Because the Arabs believed that they would still destroy Israel and everything would go back to normal. To accept a Palestinian system would legitimative Israel.

If Hamas wanted peace, they would clamp down on attacks from Gaza. They have the meandering, not the desire. The West Bank again encourage attackd on Israel.

They speak words, but will not back up their words.

Peace and security.

Why do the Palestinians continue to reject those to better off the population. Because they do not believe and think that they can be rewarded with accepting responsibility.
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Once again you understand nothing EK.

As you assume everyone believes Israel is 100% in the right and the Palestinians are 100% in the wrong. When nothing can be further from the truth. Not to say its Israel that is 100% wrong and the Palestinian and Arabs blameless. Lots of stupid mistakes made in the past, on all sides, and sooner or later a fair and equitable compromise must be reached. Or the alternative is either a bloody crash no side can win, or increasing and more effective terrorism directed at Israel. As the rocket will increase in range and the warheads will start containing chemical and biological weapons.

But still events and world pressure will hopefully force the changes, they may not be occurring as fast as some of us would like, but they are happening even if you EK ignore them.

What everyone who is rational should hope for is a soft landing for both the State of Israel and the Palestinian people. In which Israel can become an accepted and co-operating member of the Mid-East community. The actual and original Ben Grunion vision. But now Israeli is going off into a lala land delusion that their pig it all strategy will last forever. Uncle Sammy may well end the Israeli delusion after 11/2012. Do the math EK, a 7 million people Israel that does nothing but hurt US foreign policy interests is a easy to lose liability when 300 million Arab mid-east with oil is the only thing with real long term value.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

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Sorry Hayabusa, in any war and human conflict there are always those on both sides who would cheerfully slaughter the enemy down to the last women and child. And once the war starts, everyone in the country climbs on that kill em all bandwagon. Why should Hamas, which is a divided political party rather than a single robot mind be any different?

But as the war or conflict goes on and on and on, and the loses in blood and treasure mount up on all sides, its the moderates on both sides who finally make the compromises to get a lasting peace. Hamas, if they want a peace, will simply have to change their charter, or get voted out of power.

And hay, Haybausa, Israel is going through the same elections process even as we speak. And even if an far right extremist like Netanyuhu wins again, its unlikely such a government will last. Meanwhile both Hamas and Fatah, for the first time in history are reaching out diplomatically to the larger world. Of course Israel has and is doing the same thing, but more and more, Netanyuhu gets told by other nations that they no longer believe in his lies.

Yet the Palestinians live. Israel does not have at its core the same mentality of the extermination of muslims that Hamas has written as a basic tenet of belief. Now where are these "peaceful" members who refute their charter? No where to be found. For all you rage against him there is no call for the extermination of the palestinians. Hamas can talk all it wants but they show no signs of reformation. In that sense they can be trusted, trusted to kill Israelis as they can. They fool only you.