Another day, another school shooting

[z1ggy]

Who's going to pay for that?

The gubbamint. Obviously, it wouldn't happen over night. It might take 20 years, but buy back programs plus making all manfs. to produce smart firearms only, you could see a very large portion of the (legal) firearm ownership to be using this tech.

And it doesn't change anything. Everybody gets the same rights and ownership they always had, but with less risk the weapon would be used by another person.

I mean, I'm just trying to think of something here. We can't ban guns or limit their capacity. That clearly isn't going to work. Telling me I can't carry at place xyz is also dumb. Trying to dive into people's mental health records is unethical and will never be legally allowed. Even when people are shown to be total nuts (Santa Barb. shooter) they still end up with access to firearms.

I'm just trying to think up and be open to ideas other than the failures that have been thought up so far by our law makers.

 

[z1ggy]

You, obviously! Haven't you figured out liberal logic already? Come up with an idea that looks good on paper and expect the tax payers to pony up the dough for it.

You assume I'm a liberal because I happen to be trying to think of ways to come up with effective gun control? Or does that word just scare people.

I own many fire arms. I have my permit to carry and I frequent my range. I also don't align with either the left or the right because I think extremists of both sides are twits. I'm just using my brain. Something neither side seems to be too good at a lot of the time.

 

[smackababy]

You assume I'm a liberal because I happen to be trying to think of ways to come up with effective gun control? Or does that word just scare people.

I own many fire arms. I have my permit to carry and I frequent my range. I also don't align with either the left or the right because I think extremists of both sides are twits. I'm just using my brain. Something neither side seems to be too good at a lot of the time.

Except, you're not using your brain. Most of the guns used in gun crimes are from 'straw purchases', or bought by a person who can legally purchase a gun for someone who cannot (which is illegal). The second biggest source is from corrupt, licensed dealers. More gun laws isn't going to stop either of those.

Effective gun control doesn't come from making guns harder to legally obtain.

 

[jackstar7]

I own many fire arms. I have my permit to carry and I frequent my range. I also don't align with either the left or the right because I think extremists of both sides are twits. I'm just using my brain. Something neither side seems to be too good at a lot of the time.

And you get derided for it, too. That's how much they hate it. Or indicates an insecurity.

 

[WackyDan]

Sorry I know how to handle a firearm so that it isn't a danger to myself and those around me? Seriously though, how not to shoot yourself isn't rocket science.

They think firearms have a mind of their own. They can't understand the negligent behavior that has to happen for a firearm accident.

 

[WackyDan]

Just saw (but didn't click) a story on yahoo news about the average school shooting rate is now one every 7.33 days.

Good times...

Unfortunately, nothing can really be done about this when you have the NRA who is essentially resistant to any change whatsoever, even if it's for the best. I watched a story about a company who's selling guns in NJ where the user must wear a simple wrist band that only allows the wearer to fire the gun, and only if they are within 1-2ft of it.

NRA shot that one down, even though it really doesn't affect them. If anything, it would allow more people to purchase guns because they feel safer using them if they have children, etc.

Ever ask yourself why law enforcement does not adopt these oh so great smart guns? * especially when many officers are shot with their own firearm?

...Because in their testing they find each and every one unreliable in speed and function. A firearm is something you need to work the split second you need it. Failures and delay in function is not acceptable - EVER.

 

[jackstar7]

They think firearms have a mind of their own. They can't understand the negligent behavior that has to happen for a firearm accident.

Still not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the reality of life. Accidents are a thing. You've probably tripped over something in the last year, right?

Chaos happens. None of you are the graceful ballerina that you suggest or state openly to be.

 

[spidey07]

And you get derided for it, too. That's how much they hate it. Or indicates an insecurity.

No, it's just a terrible, terrible, incredibly stupid unworkable idea. It's how gun grabbers think, nothing but full herp derp.

The new tactic that's being tried by the left is making sure they pretend to be gun owners to make you think "he's one of us". It was in their playbook that was discovered last year, they're following the playbook to a tee.

Notice they're now using "military style weapons" to describe things? That was also in the talking points playbook.

 

[WackyDan]

I'll agree with this - and I'll say it as someone NOT securing their guns correctly. I need to buy a safe, but keep putting it off because a safe in an apartment is hard.

You don't need a safe. The right safe is nice, no doubt about that. You can buy any manner of cabinet with a lock that you can secure to the wall or floor without damaging the apartment. They are secure enough to keep out kids and guests. They are probably secure enough to force a thief to take your TV instead or cause enough delay or noise that they would be caught.

Point is, the effort needs to be at least made. For a long time I used a large and long four drawer file cabinet like you would find in any large office.

For keeping a couple of handguns in the bedroom at the ready, I use one of these: http://www.safesetc.com/2064.html?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=productsearch

It keeps it far enough away that it is not loose on or in the night stand ( a pretty stupid practice IMHO), but close enough and fast enough that I can clear the cobwebs in a few steps and be ready... The alarm and future dogs are my early warning.

You don't need a traditional, huge, heavy gun safe. You just need to do something.

 

[WackyDan]

I called it right. Now who wants to talk about what should become of the 15 year old killer's parent(s)???

You are going off on a tangent without knowing jack shit about this shooting.

Let's assume... Let's predict the following:

The shooter was another student who for whatever reason targeted the other student. The reason for purposes of discussion doesn't matter.

Predicting that... Where did the student get a semi-automatic handgun? (assuming it had to be a handgun as he got it into school or on school grounds - article mentions it was a semi-automatic)

Where did he get it? Probably owned by one of his parents. How? Because his jackass parent(s) kept it unlocked and ready by the nightstand, in the night stand, etc... Either that they kept it locked up and the kid knew the combination, where the key was etc.

The problem isn't the firearm. The need isn't more gun control. The solution is taking this parent (regardless of additional offspring in the picture) and charging them with accessory to murder/facilitating a murder and locking them up for ten+ years. Edit: When people see other gun owners paying that penalty, a large number of otherwise responsible gun owners will become actually responsible gun owners.

If my prediction isn't true or even close to true, I'll gladly engage the the normal gun crime banter here...

This is about responsible gun ownership. This is about enforcing stiff penalties for gun owners who do not control the access and safety of their weapons at all times. I say that as a gun owner. I say that as a rabid 2nd amendment supporter. I say that as an owner of scary black rifles. I say that as a parent with a child in my house.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I called it right. Now who wants to talk about what should become of the 15 year old killer's parent(s)???

I do!
I believe they should be held accountable to some extent.

 

[TerryMathews]

Ever ask yourself why law enforcement does not adopt these oh so great smart guns? * especially when many officers are shot with their own firearm?

...Because in their testing they find each and every one unreliable in speed and function. A firearm is something you need to work the split second you need it. Failures and delay in function is not acceptable - EVER.

I keep pointing that out to him, its like he's immune to logic.

For this so-called smart technology to work it's default state has to be interrupt firing. Which means it must be an integral part of the firing mechanism which will in turn expose it to the shock, vibration, pressure, and temperature of firing.

In principle, I'm not opposed to smart technology. We're a long way from miniaturized technology being rugged enough to withstand firearms application.

Its unacceptable to me to make gun owners accept a more fragile firearm than we would offer to law enforcement or the military.

It amuses me that there is a lot of overlap in the groups who opposed SOPA and PIPA yet wholeheartedly support cockamamie plans like this. Its wrong to presume irresponsibility on internet usage yet totally OK to do to firearm owners en masse?

GTFO

 

[TerryMathews]

I do!
I believe they should be held accountable to some extent.

Only if we apply the same standard uniformly.

Which would mean for instance that Trayvon's parents were responsible for his actions that night.

 

[Zaap]

The problem isn't the firearm. The need isn't more gun control. The solution is taking this parent (regardless of additional offspring in the picture) and charging them with accessory to murder/facilitating a murder and locking them up for ten+ years. Edit: When people see other gun owners paying that penalty, a large number of otherwise responsible gun owners will become actually responsible gun owners.

I totally agree with this. Whenever it's found that parents were negligent in allowing kids acccess to firearms used in shootings, the parents should be charged as accessories.

 

[Zaap]

Only if we apply the same standard uniformly.

Which would mean for instance that Trayvon's parents were responsible for his actions that night.

Seriously, not to dredge up this lameass old topic, but what the hell does that have to do with anything?

What actions? Walking to/from a store? I wasn't aware Trayvon was the one who shot and killed anyone. Was he even armed?

 

[Moonbeam]

Self hate is not the problem, overdeveloped self love is the problem. But other than that, you're correct.

Overdeveloped self love IS self hate. We don't recognize it by its true identity because we don't want to feel it. We blind ourselves to its true nature because of our hidden inner pain. Ego is feelings of inferiority. This is why the meek inherit the earth. Their real self is present, as is being joy. It is the unconscious knowledge of being joy, something we all knew briefly as babies, that causes us to feel distress. We all know unconsciously, that something is wrong.

 

[chucky2]

Haha

 

[jackstar7]

Should all gun owners be responsible for crimes carried out with their weapons?

 

[chucky2]

Should all baseball bat owners be responsible for crimes carried out with their baseball bats?

Should all knife owners be responsible for crimes carried out with their knives?

Should all vehicle owners be responsible for crimes carried out with their vehicles?

 

[jackstar7]

Should all baseball bat owners be responsible for crimes carried out with their baseball bats?

Should all knife owners be responsible for crimes carried out with their knives?

Should all vehicle owners be responsible for crimes carried out with their vehicles?

So in chucky's world, a gun, baseball bat, knife, and car are all equivalent.

Thanks for demonstrating your point of view with such alacrity.

And I was responding to WD asking what should happen to the parents...

 

[Orignal Earl]

No, it's just a terrible, terrible, incredibly stupid unworkable idea. It's how gun grabbers think, nothing but full herp derp.

The new tactic that's being tried by the left is making sure they pretend to be gun owners to make you think "he's one of us". It was in their playbook that was discovered last year, they're following the playbook to a tee.

Notice they're now using "military style weapons" to describe things? That was also in the talking points playbook.

OMG
I just thought, what if the left left that playbook out for you to find on PURPOSE!

 

[chucky2]

So in chucky's world, a gun, baseball bat, knife, and car are all equivalent.

Thanks for demonstrating your point of view with such alacrity.

And I was responding to WD asking what should happen to the parents...

How far are you going to go taking the onus off the action (and thus the person(s)) and onto the object? I posted in another thread a few minutes ago that I'd be fine with requiring firearm owners to have a safe - which one would hope they'd securely store their firearms in. So what? It won't stop shootings. Kids are great at finding out shit like that. They see where mom/dad has the combo. They put a smartphone/video recorder in place and record them opening the safe. Even non-nefarious knowledge of the combination with then a snap/decay can happen (I know my dads combination, so does my mom. What happens if one of us snaps?).

Where there is a will, there is a way...and crazy people have lots of will...

 

[BoberFett]

Sure. No reason to.

What do you even have to fear at all?

What makes you think my firearms ownership has anything to do with fear?

Yet another unfounded assumption by an ignorant fool.

 

[BoberFett]

Overdeveloped self love IS self hate. We don't recognize it by its true identity because we don't want to feel it. We blind ourselves to its true nature because of our hidden inner pain. Ego is feelings of inferiority. This is why the meek inherit the earth. Their real self is present, as is being joy. It is the unconscious knowledge of being joy, something we all knew briefly as babies, that causes us to feel distress. We all know unconsciously, that something is wrong.

You're generalizing too much. Yes, sometimes ego is a product of making up for a deficiency of love. Other times ego is a product of being told you're a special snowflake who can do no wrong, and any challenge to that assertion is met with violent results to protect the ego.

"What do you mean I didn't get the job? I always get everything I want. I'll show you fuckers..."

 

[jackstar7]

What makes you think my firearms ownership has anything to do with fear?

Yet another unfounded assumption by an ignorant fool.

Oh, sillypants, I wasn't talking about how your gun relates to fear. I was asking if you had anything to fear at all. Literally anything. You seem beyond fear as a concept with your level of certitude. So I was genuine curious if like bugs freak you out, or heights or something else.

I know people only own guns for two reasons: fear or boredom. Some of the fears are entirely rational, as is the case with protecting livestock, while other fears are absurd. Then there are people who just get a kick out of guns as a hobby.

Do you have some other deeper motivation you'd care to elaborate on?

I don't expect that you will. It's fine. You would never waste your time educating someone you've already determined is a fool. I mean what's the point, right, bro?