Another day, another school shooting

[chucky2]

What I dislike about you is similar to what I dislike about Jackshit. Your tiny minds are incapable of understanding the vast spectrum of greys that exist in the universe, so you classify everything in black and white terms that you falsely believe you understand. Everything is either fear or boredom. Everything is self hate. To you, everything is simple, easily put in a box. That imagined simplicity is why you believe you understand my motivations. In your mind anybody who thinks differently than you must do it purely because of self hate; if people didn't hate themselves, then they'd agree with you.

I hate to break it to you but you're not real Moonie. You're one of the biggest phonies around, because you have convinced yourself that you understand.

You should be happy he/she is still posting entertainment posts, end of last year it was looking like someone was having a breakdown - I was genuinely getting worried...

 

[FDF12389]

To clarify one thing though, it is not a binary notion. I reduce things to the two I mention because most people are not purchasing for economic motives (sales, trading). Most are purchasing for a sense of safety/security and some purchase for entertainment. I'd happily add more reasons to that brief list should I be exposed to them. To this point, I have not been.

People buy firearms that can no longer fire, ammo can't be purchased for, or otherwise can't be used. Is that boredom or fear? Probably should add every motivation a collector of any items would have to your list.

I bought my first gun when I was 12, because my dad had already taught me how to hunt and I wanted to harvest a deer for food. Growing up in a family of 7 this greatly helped reduce the families grocery bill. Is that fear or boredom? Are all gardeners bored?

I know someone who got a job as an armored truck driver and they required he purchase a carry weapon off their approved list. Was his acquisition out of fear or boredom?

I know a woman who bought a rifle to cull varmints that were causing damage to her land, was she afraid or bored?

 

[jackstar7]

People buy firearms that can no longer fire, ammo can't be purchased for, or otherwise can't be used. Is that boredom or fear? Probably should add every motivation a collector of any items would have to your list.

I bought my first gun when I was 12, because my dad had already taught me how to hunt and I wanted to harvest a deer for food. Growing up in a family of 7 this greatly helped reduce the families grocery bill. Is that fear or boredom? Are all gardeners bored?

I know someone who got a job as an armored truck driver and they required he purchase a carry weapon off their approved list. Was his acquisition out of fear or boredom?

I know a woman who bought a rifle to cull varmints that were causing damage to her land, was she afraid or bored?

Your first example is boredom. It entertains you to own these relics, antiques, and the like. No harm in it at all. Amuse yourself however you like. All hobbies fall under boredom, no?

Second example is fear. Worried that there wouldn't be enough food, you sought to hunt and help provide. Would you say that's still an issue for a plurality of families in the U.S. at this point? That seems like a situation that society has mostly outgrown through food production and distribution.

And your last example I've already addressed. Those who are protecting livestock/land don't fall into either. Sorry you seemed to come in only at this point and think I'm just another pinhead, but I'm not. I'm also not actively against people owning guns. I'm not a gun-grabber of any kind. I just like people to have the deepest possible understanding of what motivates them to do the things they do. It's philosophical.

The third example is certainly an oddball, but the guy either wanted the job very much, or didn't want to bother trying to find one that didn't require such a purchase. What would you call that, at its core? What would you say was compelling him in that scenario?

 

[BoberFett]

For someone lamenting people boiling things down to their basic concepts you seem to have no issue at all just lumping us "tiny minds" together (obviously as opposed to your big throbbing mind) and making sweeping judgments based on, at least in my case, this one topic. But it's hard to blame you. You have a lot invested in protecting your worldview and making sure there is plenty of gray in which to keep yourself covered.

But the key is deeming us unworthy of you actually addressing our queries. I've asked you to illuminate us about what your reasons for owning firearms are that have nothing to do with fears (rational or irrational) nor amusement/entertainment. You have to demean me as lesser than to maintain your haughty position above me without demonstrating anything that puts you in that position. It is a sad tautology. You're better because you say you are. And demonstrating any evidence of that would somehow lower you.

So again, I entreat you, please explain the "gray" motivations behind your firearm ownership. Certainly explaining it will only enrich the conversation for everyone, so you don't have to see it as a direct benefit to me if you're prefer to not. But providing more to talk about the actual topic of this thread could certainly only benefit the discussion, regardless of my participation in it.

To clarify one thing though, it is not a binary notion. I reduce things to the two I mention because most people are not purchasing for economic motives (sales, trading). Most are purchasing for a sense of safety/security and some purchase for entertainment. I'd happily add more reasons to that brief list should I be exposed to them. To this point, I have not been. And you choose to withhold, which as I explained previously seems either petty or pathetic, possibly both.

Ah, now you've changed the rules. You initially set the rules for the conversation by saying that the only possible motivations one could have were fear and boredom, and to choose which of those two motivations my firearms ownership fell under. Your use of the words fear and boredom was intentional. The words fear and boredom have a negative connotation, which would then apply to any activity that fell under them. That makes sense, as you're trying to cast firearms in a negative light. I chose not to play your games under your rules, so I dismissed you as a fool. You just now used the words amusement and entertainment, which are very different than boredom. Those words have a positive connotation.

An activity in which a person partakes in merely as a cure to boredom can be easily substituted with any other activity, presumably one deemed acceptable by you, the busybody. On the other hand as a source of amusement or entertainment, firearms used responsibly can be a positive, enjoyable experience. Far from the fear and boredom you initially tried to associate them with.

 

[Zebo]

Violence it at an all time low, like half murders as 30 years ago - and we have more guns than ever. Sociologists are still trying to explain it but it sure as shit doesn't make news much. Dont be such a fearful person things are good.

If people want to kill ppl nothing you gonna do about it really. Like a mason jar of gasoline would do more DPS than any firearm sold so far as indiscriminate slaughter. The biggest school slaughter of all time was from a bomb not a gun. Least with gun you can selectively disable the perp before he get started or does more damage.

 

[jackstar7]

Ah, now you've changed the rules. You initially set the rules for the conversation by saying that the only possible motivations one could have were fear and boredom, and to choose which of those two motivations my firearms ownership fell under. Your use of the words fear and boredom was intentional. The words fear and boredom have a negative connotation, which would then apply to any activity that fell under them. That makes sense, as you're trying to cast firearms in a negative light. I chose not to play your games under your rules, so I dismissed you as a fool. You just now used the words amusement and entertainment, which are very different than boredom. Those words have a positive connotation.

An activity in which a person partakes in merely as a cure to boredom can be easily substituted with any other activity, presumably one deemed acceptable by you, the busybody. On the other hand as a source of amusement or entertainment, firearms used responsibly can be a positive, enjoyable experience. Far from the fear and boredom you initially tried to associate them with.

So what's your motivation then?

You still refuse to just state it plainly.

 

[BoberFett]

I find shooting an enjoyable activity. I like the report of a powerful cartridge, a tiny version of like those loud fireworks that rattle your chest. The feel of the kick in your hands or against your shoulder. The smell of the burning powder. The skill involved in tight shot groupings.

I and many gun owners have found that when anti-gun advocates actually try shooting, they enjoy the activity as well. Talk about fear, anti-gun advocates often have no idea what they're against, they just don't like the occasional end result. Similar to people who have never tried drugs but want to ban them completely because some bad situations occur.

 

[chucky2]

I find shooting an enjoyable activity. I like the report of a powerful cartridge, a tiny version of like those loud fireworks that rattle your chest. The feel of the kick in your hands or against your shoulder. The smell of the burning powder. The skill involved in tight shot groupings.

Holy sh1t, you too?!?!

 

[RampantAndroid]

And you're just as awesome and special as I figured you for. Yep, your hobby stands as noble and pure and frankly unassailable. Don't let me with my jackass attitude come anywhere close to provoking you to consider why you do the things you do, and possibly see how your hobbies are likely about as unimportant as anyone's.

I'm not threatening your hobby. How could I with these soft and sensitive balls of mine? I sit on mine and wind up uncomfortable for hours. You've demonstrated repeatedly that you have the balls of a marble statue knocking around in your scrotum, and thus have so much less to fear than me. You are literally a better man. I just want to know if your ownership of firearms is because you're bored or afraid, since it's one of those two at its core.

So what's your motivation then?

You still refuse to just state it plainly.

You start out with an insult then wonder when he doesn't react well? There's a reason I don't talk much in these gun threads anymore...the people who are capable of seeing reason already have to some degree. The people like you however are chanting that all gun owners sit behind a door with 10 locks on it, cradling the gun.

It doesn't help when you have people like Spidey on here that actually DO that...but most gun owners do it because it's fun. Or they like collecting things. Restoring them, building them and so forth.

 

[FDF12389]

Your first example is boredom. It entertains you to own these relics, antiques, and the like. No harm in it at all. Amuse yourself however you like. All hobbies fall under boredom, no?

Fair enough. Although I would say intrigue could be a motivator absent of boredom.

Second example is fear. Worried that there wouldn't be enough food, you sought to hunt and help provide. Would you say that's still an issue for a plurality of families in the U.S. at this point? That seems like a situation that society has mostly outgrown through food production and distribution.

I disagree, we weren't afraid of not eating, my father always provided. However its hard to feed a family of 7 steaks on a very modest single income. Hunting allowed my family to eat organic steaks, burgers, and brats that we otherwise would not have been able to afford. I remember my grandpa giving my dad a dehydrator and smoker when I was really young, venison jerky tasted a lot better than apple or cucumber slices for school snacks. How much would it cost to send jerky with five children as a school snack? I still have that same rifle today and it has more that paid for itself. Since then I have acquired more firearms, you would probably say I bought them out of boredom(as you've made it clear hobbies = bored ), handgun to shoot leagues, shotguns for trap league and grouse hunting, etc.

I'll will say that I bought my carry piece out of cautiousness. If fear is a motivator, why not caution? I don't carry all the time, but if I'm going to buy something off craigslist and am carrying a decent amount of cash, I'll carry my gun too. You may say that is fear, but if I was afraid of something happening I would buy the item I'm looking to acquire from another seller. I contend that it's caution, not fear.

The third example is certainly an oddball, but the guy either wanted the job very much, or didn't want to bother trying to find one that didn't require such a purchase. What would you call that, at its core? What would you say was compelling him in that scenario?

I haven't talked with him in years, so it would be hard to say. I do remember he was going to school for criminal justice, perhaps he wanted a job that would align him better for future career aspirations.

And your last example I've already addressed. Those who are protecting livestock/land don't fall into either. Sorry you seemed to come in only at this point and think I'm just another pinhead, but I'm not. I'm also not actively against people owning guns. I'm not a gun-grabber of any kind. I just like people to have the deepest possible understanding of what motivates them to do the things they do. It's philosophical.

I wasn't assuming anything of your intellect, just wanted to give examples of motivators I knew of; seeing as no one else had given any specifics.

 

[justoh]

British comedian on Americans and guns, broadcasted shortly after sandy hook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TABgNerEro8

Click it. Go on.

 

[jackstar7]

I wasn't assuming anything of your intellect, just wanted to give examples of motivators I knew of; seeing as no one else had given any specifics.

Appreciated. As you may see elsewhere, it's not uncommon for people to insult their perceived opposition. I'm not above it when people bring that level to the rhetoric, but I also have the capacity for respectful discourse.

To several of you:

I'd like to apologize for my earlier insulting remarks. There are two people I previously had on ignore than I've not returned to that state (spidey and nehalem), because they just kinda fuck up discussions that could be worthwhile and I have let them push my buttons, which just leads to my being a dick to people who deserve none of it. I'm sorry. Honestly.

I hope in future discussions, we can all have a more productive time of it and that I won't encourage a deterioration of the dialogue.

Cheers and hope everyone has a fine weekend.

 

[Zebo]

I dont shoot as much as I used to - these damn wars driving up costs for us recreational shooters but when I did in my 30s I competed in 3 gun competitions and skeet shoots. Great fun. Beyond that I hunt. City boys wouldn't understand but it's a way of life. From a pastime with your family to a way to feed yourself to just being in nature - whole package makes it fun and enjoyable. I lean left on most issue but try and take my guns is another story.

I dont fear anything like crime and stuff I mean I have a CCW and never carry. I dont even lock my doors. I dont even like carrying a wallet let alone a hunk of metal. So thats a bunch of bull about fear.

 

[spidey07]

You start out with an insult then wonder when he doesn't react well? There's a reason I don't talk much in these gun threads anymore...the people who are capable of seeing reason already have to some degree. The people like you however are chanting that all gun owners sit behind a door with 10 locks on it, cradling the gun.

It doesn't help when you have people like Spidey on here that actually DO that...but most gun owners do it because it's fun. Or they like collecting things. Restoring them, building them and so forth.

I do no such thing. But believe me. When you have 3-4 people break into your house, while you are sound asleep. It will change you. The what ifs will run though your mind for months. Especialy if you have others to protect. It's not just property.

I have a family to protect. That's my job. And like my job that pays me it has 125 percent full on. When you have something to protect you'll get it.

When gun grabbers speak of removing my natural right to defend myself and my family I will attack them as the enemy they are.

That event changed my core being. I will never be a victim of somebody else will. Come into my home or occupied vehicle ain't nothing but death waiting for you.

 

[schmuckley]

Alright;Here's my take on this bullshit:
When I was in High School,this shit didn't happen because everyone had guns.
80% of the vehicles in the parking lot had a school-shop made gunrack in the back of their truck with at least 1 gun in it..2 if you weren't poor/weak.]
This stuff never happened before liberal education..true story.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Alright;Here's my take on this bullshit:
When I was in High School,this shit didn't happen because everyone had guns.
80% of the vehicles in the parking lot had a school-shop made gunrack in the back of their truck with at least 1 gun in it..2 if you weren't poor/weak.]
This stuff never happened before liberal education..true story.

I don't know what liberal education is, but school shootings have always happened

I grew up around lots of guns too.
We could take them to school
But then they built us a gym and nobody bothered with the guns anymore
You could do that anytime at home

 

[Orignal Earl]

That event changed my core being.

Have you considered talking to a psychologist ?
You may be suffering from serious issues

 

[spidey07]

Have you considered talking to a psychologist ?
You may be suffering from serious issues

When you go through that violation of your home you let me know.

Till then I will protect my family. Like I said. You'll understand once you have something to protect.

 

[Orignal Earl]

When you go through that violation of your home you let me know.

Till then I will protect my family. Like I said. You'll understand once you have something to protect.

Well, the kids are all grown up now, but I know a little about having something to protect
I still think you may have some issues

edit-even more beyond your whole race wars coming thing

 

[Zebo]

Fears are not unfounded or people living in high crime areas or former victims. If i have to live in South Side of Chicago I damn sure carry a gun everywhere including school law or no law. Jail time is nothing compared to death.

As is I live behind walls with armed guards who do the protection work for me so I dont even lock my house. Not like a lock really stops someone anyway. Simple kick door open and you got a $500 jam and door to fix.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Fears are not unfounded or people living in high crime areas or former victims. If i have to live in South Side of Chicago I damn sure carry a gun everywhere including school law or no law. Jail time is nothing compared to death.

As is I live behind walls with armed guards who do the protection work for me so I dont even lock my house. Not like a lock really stops someone anyway. Simple kick door open and you got a $500 jam and door to fix.

Aw
After I read your post above about not locking the doors, it gave me a good feeling
I thought it was great you managed to find a place that is as nice to live as where I live.
Now you ruined it with the armed guards and walls

 

[Matt1970]

Gloria Bunker-Stivic: Daddy, did you know that sixty percent of the people murdered in this country in the last ten years were killed by guns?

Archie Bunker: Would it make you feel any better, little girl, if they was pushed out of windows?

 

[bshole]

That's a cultural problem that will never be fixed. Violence has continued to go down as people began arming themselves to combat it.

In my state such behavior is known as "a good way to get yourself shot".

Oh yea, more guns means less violence, just look at the middle east where everybody has guns.... no violence there.... none at all!

 

[Texashiker]

Oh yea, more guns means less violence, just look at the middle east where everybody has guns.... no violence there.... none at all!

Take away their guns and they will use swords.

 

[nehalem256]

Oh yea, more guns means less violence, just look at the middle east where everybody has guns.... no violence there.... none at all!

How would removing guns prevent suicide bombers?:hmm: