Another day, another massacre

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: IrateLeaf

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I believe it?s safe to say those who stand against Israel today are also against the US over Iraq. They just don?t intend to change the subject.

I believe that it's safe to say that's an unsound assumption. I believe Israel is right to defend itself, including the use of overwhelming force against Hezbollah, who was the aggressor and instigator of the current conflict, there. I think Israel has made some bad choices in some of their methods and targets that have resulted in more civilian casualties and the resulting loss of support in the rest of the world than would have happened if they had chosen more wisely.

I also have believed from the start that the Bushwhacko's war into Iraq was a horrendous blunder based on lies and ego with no basis in reality. The world stood with us when we went into Afghanistan after Al Qaeda and the Taliban because everyone knew they were the aggressors. And, as with Israel's poor choices of tactics, Bush's war of lies in Iraq has cost the U.S. it's credibility in the world community. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

What's worse is, even if Bush happens to be right in supporting Israel, now, nobody believes him, even if he accidentally happens to be right in any given case.

The world dismisses GWB`s rhetoric. Israel will not back down. As has ben proven by Rice`s look of puzzlement and disbelief after a meeting with Olmert!
I hope Olmert read her the riot act. shame on her for even approaching israel to cease and desist.
:thumbsup:to Olmert!!

:thumbsdown: to you for supporting terrorists and terrorism. Olmert should be tried for war crimes.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: IrateLeaf

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Speedzealot 369,

Lets face it---both hezbollah and the current State of Israel are racing each other for who most resembles the Nazi party---and the current box score is Israel 10 Hezzbollah 1.

Lets not white wash anything---cheer up---both sides are wrong.

A history lesson is due for--
The nazi`s used human shirlds during ww2.
The nazi`s did not care about the population of any cities or its occupants during ww2 that were not german.
The Nazi`s in the early days of there existence were know to plant evidence and stage shooting as well as propoganda to incite the german people and back the nazi cause.

Who does this best fit? Obviously NOt Israel.
Since it`s not Israel it can only Hezbollah!

So the 800 civilians murdered in Lebanon have meen murdered with "great care"?:disgust:

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html


Whoops....

Lebanon's PM revises death toll from 40 to 1

You just ruined Green Bean's celebration of what his freedom fighters have done. The death toll straight from Hezbollah?s mouth was much better anti-Israel ammunition for him to fire.

Just becuase Im totally against Israeli barbarism does not mean Im pro Hezbollah, However it is the lesser of the two evils.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Doboji
What do you think realistically would happen if you disarmed Israel? Really?

It's funny how none of these anti-Israeli folk can seem to answer this question.

It's obvious that many of the Anti-Israel crowd are passionately seeking it's complete and total annihilation; They will never be happy with any Israeli concessions apart of it's destruction.

If Israeli had not invaded Lebanon in 1982, Hezbolloah would not have existed. Hezbollah is Israel's fault.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Severian

Hard to distinguish between the nazis and Israelis.

Actually, it's quite easy to distinguish. The Nazis bombed, invaded, and then occupied whole countries in order to extend German dominance over Europe. Israel didn't attack Hezbollah until two of its soldiers were kidnapped from Israeli territory, then spirited across the border, likely to Syria or Iran.
.

How did 2 captured soldiers threaten Israel's soverignty and give it the right to agression by calling it an "act of defense"? It is illegal according to international law. The Israeli government is therefore a war criminal! The UN won't do anything becuas of the US. Its just a waste of resources.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: IrateLeaf

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I believe it?s safe to say those who stand against Israel today are also against the US over Iraq. They just don?t intend to change the subject.

I believe that it's safe to say that's an unsound assumption. I believe Israel is right to defend itself, including the use of overwhelming force against Hezbollah, who was the aggressor and instigator of the current conflict, there. I think Israel has made some bad choices in some of their methods and targets that have resulted in more civilian casualties and the resulting loss of support in the rest of the world than would have happened if they had chosen more wisely.

I also have believed from the start that the Bushwhacko's war into Iraq was a horrendous blunder based on lies and ego with no basis in reality. The world stood with us when we went into Afghanistan after Al Qaeda and the Taliban because everyone knew they were the aggressors. And, as with Israel's poor choices of tactics, Bush's war of lies in Iraq has cost the U.S. it's credibility in the world community. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

What's worse is, even if Bush happens to be right in supporting Israel, now, nobody believes him, even if he accidentally happens to be right in any given case.

The world dismisses GWB`s rhetoric. Israel will not back down. As has ben proven by Rice`s look of puzzlement and disbelief after a meeting with Olmert!
I hope Olmert read her the riot act. shame on her for even approaching israel to cease and desist.
:thumbsup:to Olmert!!

:thumbsdown: to you for supporting terrorists and terrorism. Olmert should be tried for war crimes.

I'm still waiting for you to change the topic title and sub title.

BTW stop throwing the terrorism flag around. It's WAR. Really, terrorism is just thrown around...
You're the one supporting torrism not Olmert. You're just yelling around barbarisem terrorisem, Hezbullah are freedom fighters or whatever.

Fact is, Israel has withdrawn from Lebanon COMPLETLY not an inch of Lebanese land has been left in Israeli hands, yet Hezbullah fires rockets at Israel first (which you ignore), and kidnapped Israeli soldiers.
This isn't even the first time Hezbullah has done something like this in the last 6 years. Last time Israel made an exchange. Well look! Here we are again... So Israel attacked now.

From another thread:

The following is a chronological list of events along Israel's northern border in which Israeli civilians or soldiers were killed or wounded from May 2000 until July 12, 2006.

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hizbullah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 June 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hizbullah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli Arabs from the village of Rajar on the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hizbullah operatives and held in captivity for four days in an attempt to obtain information on Israel.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 July 2004 - Hizbullah sniper fired at an IDF post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari?t. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hizbullah fired at an IDF force south of the Fatma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hizbullah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hizbullah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hizbullah snipers fired on an Israeli outpost near Shtula, killing two Israeli soldiers.

7 May 2003 - Hizbullah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.


12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov.


14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hizballah from the Mt. Dov sector.

When is it OK to attack in your opinion?

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

How is it defending itself by murdering civilians waging an illegal invasion and using disportionate force? Please stop making nonsese brainswashed statements.

You're an idiot.

How about the video of hez shooting rockets from apartment complexs and the roofs of schools?

How about the pictures of Hez soldiers in civilian clothing?

How many of those "civilians" are soldiers to begin with?

Hez is enticing the civ casualties to give israel bad press. Israel either sits by and lets hez fire rockets into their nation, or they bomb the rocket sites and kill civilians and get bad press.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

How is it defending itself by murdering civilians waging an illegal invasion and using disportionate force? Please stop making nonsese brainswashed statements.

You're an idiot.

How about the video of hez shooting rockets from apartment complexs and the roofs of schools?

How about the pictures of Hez soldiers in civilian clothing?

How many of those "civilians" are soldiers to begin with?

Hez is enticing the civ casualties to give israel bad press. Israel either sits by and lets hez fire rockets into their nation, or they bomb the rocket sites and kill civilians and get bad press.

There is no proof for answering any of those.

 

[Acanthus]

Images of Hezbollah in civ clothing with accompanying article. Text

Fake civilian casualty images further fan the flames. Text *NSFW*

Video of hezbollah firing rockets from civilian territory. They subsequently hide the launcher in civilian populated structures.Text

 

[Genx87]

Fake civilian casualty images further fan the flames. Text

War of propaganda, Hizbollah clearly has been schooled well.

 

[marvdmartian]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Images of Hezbollah in civ clothing with accompanying article. Text

Fake civilian casualty images further fan the flames. Text *NSFW*

Video of hezbollah firing rockets from civilian territory. They subsequently hide the launcher in civilian populated structures.Text

Don't bother. Seems the Green Bean wears rose colored glasses, and will only see truth the way they want to see it. :roll:

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Images of Hezbollah in civ clothing with accompanying article. Text

Fake civilian casualty images further fan the flames. Text *NSFW*

Video of hezbollah firing rockets from civilian territory. They subsequently hide the launcher in civilian populated structures.Text

Good proof. But still that does not give Israel the right to kill children. More than half the dead are children.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Good proof. But still that does not give Israel the right to kill children. More than half the dead are children.

I hope you're not saying it still allows Hezbollah to continue their five years of raining rockets on Israel from Lebanese territory.

You're right to mourn the deaths of innocent Lebanese civilians, but if you can't see the same horror in the loss of innocent Israeli lives, and you can't accept the idea that Hezbollah's activities since day one of the previous "peace" agreement, your opinion is far too baised to be considered in any rational discussion.

The current fight isn't going to end until someone steps betweeh Hezbollah and the Israeli border to stop the rocket attacks on Israel. Israel has said the will withdraw when that force is in place. Hezbollah has said they won't stop, and continues to call for the destruction of Israel. Which of those positions do you consider to be more directed toward a peaceful resolution?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Good proof. But still that does not give Israel the right to kill children. More than half the dead are children.

I hope you're not saying it still allows Hezbollah to continue their five years of raining rockets on Israel from Lebanese territory.

You're right to mourn the deaths of innocent Lebanese civilians, but if you can't see the same horror in the loss of innocent Israeli lives, and you can't accept the idea that Hezbollah's activities since day one of the previous "peace" agreement, your opinion is far too baised to be considered in any rational discussion.

The current fight isn't going to end until someone steps betweeh Hezbollah and the Israeli border to stop the rocket attacks on Israel. Israel has said the will withdraw when that force is in place. Hezbollah has said they won't stop, and continues to call for the destruction of Israel. Which of those positions do you consider to be more directed toward a peaceful resolution?

So why is is a big issue when Hezbollah fires rockets and captures "soldiers" into Israel when the Israelis themselves have been abducting leaders of the governments and target killing civilians (non-military) and government targets. Israel is by far the bigger of the two evils. According to the U.N, Israeli rule does not extend to Gaza or the west bank. So then shouldnt Israel stop its crimes before blaming others? Should it withdraw immidiately? they refuse to do so and continues the physical and econmic destruction of Palestine. The per Capita GDP of the West bank is only $600.

There is no way that Hezbollah needed to capture the two soldiers or fire rockets into Israel. But Israel is being hyppocritical by attacking Lebanon after they are killing and abducting Palestenians everyday. And the U.N has been formed to solve crisis. They have no right to attack Lebanon.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
So why is is a big issue when Hezbollah fires rockets and captures "soldiers" into Israel when the Israelis themselves have been abducting leaders of the governments and target killing civilians (non-military) and government targets.

The big issue is the bloodshed all around. If you believe that, contrary to Hezbollah's own declarations, they would stop attacking Israel and working within Lebanon for the destruction of Israel if Israel withdrew their forces before an intervening force was in place, your smoking some hefty sh8.

If you want stop the bloodshed, it's got to start with a realistic, sustainable stopping point. There's no way to have any meaningful discussions about who and what is right and wrong without the minimal security of a stable stopping point. Israel has already announced they would support that. Hezbollah says exactly the opposite, that they will continue to do everything possible to attack Israel.

How do you propose to reconcile that?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
So why is is a big issue when Hezbollah fires rockets and captures "soldiers" into Israel when the Israelis themselves have been abducting leaders of the governments and target killing civilians (non-military) and government targets.

The big issue is the bloodshed all around. If you believe that, contrary to Hezbollah's own declarations, they would stop attacking Israel and working within Lebanon for the destruction of Israel if Israel withdrew their forces before an intervening force was in place, your smoking some hefty sh8.

If you want stop the bloodshed, it's got to start with a realistic, sustainable stopping point. There's no way to have any meaningful discussions about who and what is right and wrong without the minimal security of a stable stopping point. Israel has already announced they would support that. Hezbollah says exactly the opposite, that they will continue to do everything possible to attack Israel.

How do you propose to reconcile that?

How can you trust a govermnent that is abducting civilians and killing them in Palestine? And you have got your facts all wrong. Hezbollah only wants the release of Lebanese captives.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
How can you trust a govermnent that is abducting civilians and killing them in Palestine? And you have got your facts all wrong. Hezbollah only wants the release of Lebanese captives.

How can you trust an armed NON-governmental force that violates the treaties of the government of their own nation from day one, and how can you trust the government of the nation that ignores its own word under the provisions of that treaty to stop that armed force?

Don't bother answering. It really doesn't matter. The only real answer is to get to a sustainable stopping point supported by a reliable intermediary force. They can argue the rights and wrongs of the other's particular acts once the only things they're pointing at each other is fingers (second or third), instead of guns, bombs and rockets.

 

[jrenz]

Hezbollah only wants the release of Lebanese captives.

It's pointless arguing with you if you are really so blind as to believe that's the driving factor behind this.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Hezbollah only wants the release of Lebanese captives.

It's pointless arguing with you if you are really so blind as to believe that's the driving factor behind this.

Its only as blind as beleiving Israel only wants to disarm Hezbollah:roll:

 

[SpeedZealot369]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: jrenz

Hezbollah only wants the release of Lebanese captives.

It's pointless arguing with you if you are really so blind as to believe that's the driving factor behind this.

Its only as blind as beleiving Israel only wants to disarm Hezbollah:roll:

Oh so you think Israel is bombing them just for the heck of it? I can see why your so against Israel.

however, most people here don't know the first thing about what's really been happening for the past 50 years, so taking sides is idiotic.

For those who thought the nazi comparison is rediculous, take a look at this:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003162.php

I have some other articles I'll post soon

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: jrenz

Hezbollah only wants the release of Lebanese captives.

It's pointless arguing with you if you are really so blind as to believe that's the driving factor behind this.

Its only as blind as beleiving Israel only wants to disarm Hezbollah:roll:

Israel says they will return their forces to Israel once a UN force is in between them and Hizbollah. Hell they are even entertaining the idea of Lebonese soldiers doing duty to keep Hizbollah out.

What else are you saying Israel wants?

 

[lozina]

did you guys see this video clip?

Jon Snow asking a Israeli ambassador some questions that no American would dare

(it deals with the Israeli actions in Palestine just before the Hezbollah incident occurred, when the first Israeli soldier was captured)

video

JS: what was the purpose of attacking the power station?

IA: to stop them from smuggling out the soldier

JS: how do you use a power station to smuggle people

IA: because there is going to be a minimal light at night and make their possibility of movement-

JS: surely you need darkness at night to smuggle people about you dont need a power station?


funny stuff

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: lozina
did you guys see this video clip?

Jon Snow asking a Israeli ambassador some questions that no American would dare

(it deals with the Israeli actions in Palestine just before the Hezbollah incident occurred, when the first Israeli soldier was captured)

video

JS: what was the purpose of attacking the power station?

IA: to stop them from smuggling out the soldier

JS: how do you use a power station to smuggle people

IA: because there is going to be a minimal light at night and make their possibility of movement-

JS: surely you need darkness at night to smuggle people about you dont need a power station?


funny stuff

What do you want the ambassador to say?
Even so, that interviewer is a dumbass.
so Israel shouldn't strike back because the Palestinians have weak weapons. What does he want? Should Israel give Palestinians better weapons?

He totally ignores the fact that there's any damage in Israel, any injuries, any anything.
What do you think, that Israel shut down the power plant for fun?

Terror is being thrown around so much these days... Terror this, terrorisem that...

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
So why is is a big issue when Hezbollah fires rockets and captures "soldiers" into Israel when the Israelis themselves have been abducting leaders of the governments and target killing civilians (non-military) and government targets.

The big issue is the bloodshed all around. If you believe that, contrary to Hezbollah's own declarations, they would stop attacking Israel and working within Lebanon for the destruction of Israel if Israel withdrew their forces before an intervening force was in place, your smoking some hefty sh8.

If you want stop the bloodshed, it's got to start with a realistic, sustainable stopping point. There's no way to have any meaningful discussions about who and what is right and wrong without the minimal security of a stable stopping point. Israel has already announced they would support that. Hezbollah says exactly the opposite, that they will continue to do everything possible to attack Israel.

How do you propose to reconcile that?

How can you trust a govermnent that is abducting civilians and killing them in Palestine? And you have got your facts all wrong. Hezbollah only wants the release of Lebanese captives.

Would your goal happen to be the repeat of "Peace for our time"? For I see the UN and others clamoring for a cease fire which leaves Hezbollah in place.

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: jrenz

Hezbollah only wants the release of Lebanese captives.

It's pointless arguing with you if you are really so blind as to believe that's the driving factor behind this.

Its only as blind as beleiving Israel only wants to disarm Hezbollah:roll:

So what do they really want? Besides the ability to exist?