Another day, another massacre

[The Green Bean]

EIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Lebanon's prime minister said Monday an Israeli airstrike on the southern village of Houla has left 40 people dead.

"An hour ago, there was a horrific massacre in the village of Houla in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing," Fuad Saniora told Arab foreign ministers in Beirut.

The Israel army said residents in villages in southern Lebanon had been warned to leave, The Associated Press reported.

Saniora choked back tears, wiping his eyes as he spoke, AP reported. The ministers applauded.

"If these horrific actions are not state terrorism then what is state terrorism?" AP quoted Saniora as saying.

Earlier Monday, an Israeli airstrike killed at least seven civilians Monday near the southern city of Sidon, Lebanese officials said.

Monday's strikes came a day after Hezbollah rocket attacks killed 15 Israelis.

The violence came as Lebanon's government said a U.S.- and French-backed plan for ending the nearly month-old conflict fell short of its expectations.

The Israeli airstrike Monday occurred in al-Ghassaniye about 6:30 a.m. (11:30 p.m. ET Sunday), Lebanese Internal Security sources said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

If this is not terrorism, what is?

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

If this is not hate killing, what is? If this is not disproportional force, what is? If this is not targetting civilians, what is?

The only solution to the middle east crisis is to disarm Israel.

 

[LeoDioxide]

Sometimes, you just have to fight for what you believe. There isn't any easy solution, and these people are going to fight.

 

[linkgoron]

Just to put this in perspective, this is just one of 150 attacks today, in Lebanon.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

EIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Lebanon's prime minister said Monday an Israeli airstrike on the southern village of Houla has left 40 people dead.

"An hour ago, there was a horrific massacre in the village of Houla in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing," Fuad Saniora told Arab foreign ministers in Beirut.

The Israel army said residents in villages in southern Lebanon had been warned to leave, The Associated Press reported.

Saniora choked back tears, wiping his eyes as he spoke, AP reported. The ministers applauded.

"If these horrific actions are not state terrorism then what is state terrorism?" AP quoted Saniora as saying.

Earlier Monday, an Israeli airstrike killed at least seven civilians Monday near the southern city of Sidon, Lebanese officials said.

Monday's strikes came a day after Hezbollah rocket attacks killed 15 Israelis.

The violence came as Lebanon's government said a U.S.- and French-backed plan for ending the nearly month-old conflict fell short of its expectations.

The Israeli airstrike Monday occurred in al-Ghassaniye about 6:30 a.m. (11:30 p.m. ET Sunday), Lebanese Internal Security sources said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

If this is not terrorism, what is?

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

If this is not hate killing, what is? If this is not disproportional force, what is? If this is not targetting civilians, what is?

The only solution to the middle east crisis is to disarm Israel.

What do you think realistically would happen if you disarmed Israel? Really?

 

[fallenangel99]

If this is not terrorism, what is?

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Lol lol.. Our gov't is so guilty of this.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99

If this is not terrorism, what is?

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Lol lol.. Our gov't is so guilty of this.

It's an awful definition... if thats the official definition... there is no such thing as war... there is only terrorism.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

If this is not terrorism, what is?

Maybe firing inaccurate rockets into civilian areas. Of course the rockets are fired from behind civilian structures that get destroyed along with the rocket launchers.


From your link:
The Israel Defense Forces said it is checking the reports on Houla, noting that it has warned residents for the past two weeks to leave.


Has hezbollah ever given the civilians of Israel the same courtesy?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

If this is not terrorism, what is?

Maybe firing inaccurate rockets into civilian areas. Of course the rockets are fired from behind civilian structures that get destroyed along with the rocket launchers.


From your link:
The Israel Defense Forces said it is checking the reports on Houla, noting that it has warned residents for the past two weeks to leave.


Has hezbollah ever given the civilians of Israel the same courtesy?

Something like "Leave you house, or you will be destryoed with your house?" Warning or threat?

 

[GoPackGo]

Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Lebanon's Prime Minister only has to look at himself and other Lebanese government officials to see who should shoulder the most blame. If they had not allowed Iran/Hizbollah to spend 6+ years setting up for this there would not be civilians dieing.

Make your bed with terrorist you will die with them too.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

How is it defending itself by murdering civilians waging an illegal invasion and using disportionate force? Please stop making nonsese brainswashed statements.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: fallenangel99

If this is not terrorism, what is?

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Lol lol.. Our gov't is so guilty of this.

It's an awful definition... if thats the official definition... there is no such thing as war... there is only terrorism.

That's what war is, terrorism.

I'd like to see your definition of "terrorism."

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

How is it defending itself by murdering civilians? Please stop making nonsese brainswashed statements.

Its a war. Civlilians die. It happens in every war.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Lebanon's Prime Minister only has to look at himself and other Lebanese government officials to see who should shoulder the most blame. If they had not allowed Iran/Hizbollah to spend 6+ years setting up for this there would not be civilians dieing.

Make your bed with terrorist you will die with them too.

Another stupid nonsese talk. Israel is targetting civilian structures.

Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon said that in order to prevent casualties amongst Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops move in

There is NO justification for the civilian deaths. The two captured soldiers and hezbollah posed no threat to the soverignity of Israel! Its a pure show of agression. If Israel was disarmed, no such conflict would occur.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

How is it defending itself by murdering civilians? Please stop making nonsese brainswashed statements.

Its a war. Civlilians die. It happens in every war.

Targetting civilians is a war crime! Its an illegal invasion and illegal agression.

A civilian is a person who is not a member of a military. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention it is a war crime to deliberately attack a non-combatant civilian or wantonly and unnecessarily destroy or take the property of a civilian.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

How is it defending itself by murdering civilians? Please stop making nonsese brainswashed statements.

Its a war. Civlilians die. It happens in every war.

Targetting civilians is a war crime! Its an illegal invasion and illegal agression.

Oh...illegal illegal illegal....why dont you get over yourself.

Its not a war crime because the rockets being fired at Israel are being fired from neighborhoods.

My guess is if you see rockets being fired from your neighborhood at Israel, you should get out because guess what...Israels coming. Israel has been putting up with this for too long, and now its time for them to take care of business.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: fallenangel99

If this is not terrorism, what is?

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Lol lol.. Our gov't is so guilty of this.

It's an awful definition... if thats the official definition... there is no such thing as war... there is only terrorism.

That's what war is, terrorism.

I'd like to see your definition of "terrorism."

My definition of terrorism is:

"The deliberate targetting and killing/maiming of innocent civillians in order to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Having said that... I believe this whole concept of Terrorism is just a word we use to attempt to limit the carnage of warfare.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

If this is not terrorism, what is?

Maybe firing inaccurate rockets into civilian areas. Of course the rockets are fired from behind civilian structures that get destroyed along with the rocket launchers.

Oh really? So every one of those attacks killing civilians also kills a rocket launcher? So that means Hezbollah is firing fewer and fewer rockets into Israel over time right? Oh wait wrong. LAtely MORE rockets have been coming down. Even some Israeli pilots who have a conscience are 'purpoesly missing' their given targets because they feel it is aimed at a house full of civilians and not a military target.

From your link:
The Israel Defense Forces said it is checking the reports on Houla, noting that it has warned residents for the past two weeks to leave.


Has hezbollah ever given the civilians of Israel the same courtesy?

How could Hezbollah drop leaflets on the northern Israeli towns when they have no planes and no line of communications to Israeli people?

And would it make any difference to you if they did drop leaflets to make vague warnings to leave yet rockets still came raining down? I bet it would only make people defiant and want to stay.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

EIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Lebanon's prime minister said Monday an Israeli airstrike on the southern village of Houla has left 40 people dead.

"An hour ago, there was a horrific massacre in the village of Houla in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing," Fuad Saniora told Arab foreign ministers in Beirut.

The Israel army said residents in villages in southern Lebanon had been warned to leave, The Associated Press reported.

Saniora choked back tears, wiping his eyes as he spoke, AP reported. The ministers applauded.

"If these horrific actions are not state terrorism then what is state terrorism?" AP quoted Saniora as saying.

Earlier Monday, an Israeli airstrike killed at least seven civilians Monday near the southern city of Sidon, Lebanese officials said.

Monday's strikes came a day after Hezbollah rocket attacks killed 15 Israelis.

The violence came as Lebanon's government said a U.S.- and French-backed plan for ending the nearly month-old conflict fell short of its expectations.

The Israeli airstrike Monday occurred in al-Ghassaniye about 6:30 a.m. (11:30 p.m. ET Sunday), Lebanese Internal Security sources said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

If this is not terrorism, what is?

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

If this is not hate killing, what is? If this is not disproportional force, what is? If this is not targetting civilians, what is?

The only solution to the middle east crisis is to disarm Israel.

this fellow is a liberal more in the vein of a scoop Jackson or a lieberman and I like what he says:

Alan Dershowitz on Israel, Hezbollah, and Morality
--From the Wall Street Journal, July 19, 2006:

"Israel must be allowed to finish the fight that Hamas and Hezbollah started, even if that means civilian casualties in Gaza and Lebanon. A democracy is entitled to prefer the lives of its own innocents over the lives of the civilians of an aggressor, especially if the latter group contains many who are complicit in terrorism. Israel will - and should - take every precaution to minimize civilian casualties on the other side. On July 16, Hasan Nasrallah, the head of Hezbollah, announced there will be new "surprises," and the Aska Martyrs Brigade said that it had developed chemical and biological weapons that could be added to its rockets. Should Israel not be allowed to pre-empt their use?

Israel left Lebanon in 2000 and Gaza in 2005. These are not "occupied" territories. Yet they serve as launching pads for attacks on Israeli civilians. Occupation does not cause terrorism, then, but terrorism seems to cause occupation. If Israel is not to reoccupy to prevent terrorism, the Lebanese government and the Palestinian Authority must ensure that these regions cease to be terrorist safe havens."

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

How is it defending itself by murdering civilians? Please stop making nonsese brainswashed statements.

Its a war. Civlilians die. It happens in every war.

Targetting civilians is a war crime! Its an illegal invasion and illegal agression.

A civilian is a person who is not a member of a military. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention it is a war crime to deliberately attack a non-combatant civilian or wantonly and unnecessarily destroy or take the property of a civilian.

So basically even if ONE attack kills 40 citizens (again, there were 150 attacks today) than Israel is obviously targeting civilians?

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

If this is not terrorism, what is?

Maybe firing inaccurate rockets into civilian areas. Of course the rockets are fired from behind civilian structures that get destroyed along with the rocket launchers.


From your link:
The Israel Defense Forces said it is checking the reports on Houla, noting that it has warned residents for the past two weeks to leave.


Has hezbollah ever given the civilians of Israel the same courtesy?

Something like "Leave you house, or you will be destryoed with your house?" Warning or threat?

You didn't answer my question. To answer your question its clearly a warning but if a terrorist organization happens to use your backyard as a rocket launch site, then I would hope the residents would have been long gone.

I am not an Israeli fan-boi, but I would not ask them to sit there an absorb 150+ rocket attacks (which a solely intended to kill civilians) a day and do nothing.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

If this is not terrorism, what is?

Maybe firing inaccurate rockets into civilian areas. Of course the rockets are fired from behind civilian structures that get destroyed along with the rocket launchers.


From your link:
The Israel Defense Forces said it is checking the reports on Houla, noting that it has warned residents for the past two weeks to leave.


Has hezbollah ever given the civilians of Israel the same courtesy?

Something like "Leave you house, or you will be destryoed with your house?" Warning or threat?

You didn't answer my question. To answer your question its clearly a warning but if a terrorist organization happens to use your backyard as a rocket launch site, then I would hope the residents would have been long gone.

I am not an Israeli fan-boi, but I would not ask them to sit there an absorb 150+ rocket attacks (which a solely intended to kill civilians) a day and do nothing.

You describe these rocket launch sites like they are some static facilities. Do you realize they can drive up anywhere in a pickup truck and fire these things off and drive away in a matter of minutes? You really need to think through this situation a bit more carefully... It's like if a guy lobs a grenade from your backyard and then runs away, it is completely acceptable now for military jets to drop a 500 lb. bomb on the spot he was standing at levelling your house and crushing everyone inside under its rubble. Is that the logic you subscribe to?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: fallenangel99

If this is not terrorism, what is?

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Lol lol.. Our gov't is so guilty of this.

It's an awful definition... if thats the official definition... there is no such thing as war... there is only terrorism.

That's what war is, terrorism.

I'd like to see your definition of "terrorism."

My definition of terrorism is:

"The deliberate targetting and killing/maiming of innocent civillians in order to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Having said that... I believe this whole concept of Terrorism is just a word we use to attempt to limit the carnage of warfare.

So, by your definition, the US has comitted the largest single act of terrorism in history?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Israel is caught in a catch 22 situation.

If they do nothing, the intensity of trouble just grows.
Hezbollah and Hamas evaluate what actions they can get away with.
With not response, they get bolder and more severe.

If Israel responds, then their opponents realize that they crossed the line.
Even Hexbollah admitted that they did not anticipate the Israeli response.

Hezbollah controlls (ed) southern Lebanon.
Israel is determine to remove Hezbollah and/or create a buffer.
Lebanon(as a country) is complaining about the methods Israel uses.
Lebanon did not want to solve the problem initially due to the "potential" of civil war.

They thought they chose the lesser of to evils (ignorance). And it back fired.

As previosuly stated; Israle wants the safety of their people; Lebanon's people chose via their government's (in)actions to allow such a situation to fester; now they must accept the consequences.

Israle is at least warning them to get out. It is the civilian population proble and/or their government to figure out how. Let Hezbollah help them.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Israel is clearly defending itself. And it's about time.

How is it defending itself by murdering civilians? Please stop making nonsese brainswashed statements.

Its a war. Civlilians die. It happens in every war.

Targetting civilians is a war crime! Its an illegal invasion and illegal agression.

A civilian is a person who is not a member of a military. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention it is a war crime to deliberately attack a non-combatant civilian or wantonly and unnecessarily destroy or take the property of a civilian.

So basically even if ONE attack kills 40 citizens (again, there were 150 attacks today) than Israel is obviously targeting civilians?

A civilian is a person who is not a member of a military. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention it is a war crime to deliberately attack a non-combatant civilian or wantonly and unnecessarily destroy or take the property of a civilian.

how many Hezbollah rockets have taken Israeli lives? They say 200+ rockets are being fired daily.