3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
- Mar 30, 2004
- 9,859
- 1
- 81
1) I just picked up Lance Armstrong's book at the thrift shop yesterday, but I haven't started it yet.
2) I've taken lots of risk and i've been very lucky. My old job never had a 401k plan until the last 5 years i worked there and that was when i was so poor that i was comiong down to my last $5 every week. They didn't have have a retirement program when I started working there, that's why i continued farming. They fianlly started one and promised us multiple time to make it a really good one, but when the owner sold us he cashed out the retirement and bought us annuities. When I reach 65 I'll get a whooping $105/month for my first 15 years there. $7/month times the number of years of service. WOOOHOOOO. I guess somebody has to pay for his homes.... one at Lake Tahoe, one in Palm Beach, and of course his mansion in Watertown, SD that never gets used. I think he just keeps that house so he can claim SD residency and not have to and any state income taxes. Your advice about taking "BIG" risk is irresponsible to say the least. I took all kind of risks when I was young. As a matter of fact every year I took as much risk as I could afford to lose and still be in business if it didn't work.
3) I planted good seed. The best. I can't help it if a storm came by and ruined my crop before it reached fruition.
4) Try starting over it when you live in constant, unceasing pain and then let me know how it goes for you.
5) Hey, somehow I managed to survive for the 10 years it's been since they canned me. The problem is no one will hire me and I didn't quite manage to put enough together to survive on. Couple that with my wife's situation and we've been sucking hind tittie for quite a while. We still had 2 kids at home and the youngest wasn't moved out then my middle daughter (who is bi-polar) moved back home with her child. The childs father has never even so much as asked to see a picture of his daughter, so I'm raising her now. I don't have to "make" excuses, the excuses seem just to find me. I must be an "excuse magnet".
6) I checked with the state and they said they would pay for me to go to a 2 year votech school. The closest votech school is 60 miles away and I still had kids at home to support and still had to pay my own bills. I finally got the farm paid for and was planning on trying to go back to school, but that's when my daughter and one year old grandaughter moved back in. I'm still planning on taking the state up on their offer though, if it still holds. Maybe this fall will work for me.
Ideally, I would have went to school right after they fired me, but I couldn't afford it. If my wife would have had a job, we could have swung it, or if I could have gotten some kind of help with the living expenses? Hell, the state didn't even let me collect unemployment benifits. You gotta just love "right to work" states.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
That sounds like a pretty crappy set of cards, and I'm sorry to hear about your suffering through those trials and tribulations. All I ask is that you never give up... if you somehow achieve this giant leap of faith, in yourself, then the worst that could happen is that you die trying... and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
It is better to try, and fail, than to never try at all.
And you might want to look into other avenues to obtain a 2 or 4 year degree... your time spent on ATPN would probably be better spent looking into school grants and scholarships.
I'm dead serious.
You also mentioned writing a book... I say GO FOR IT!! Just know this: nobody wants to read about a main character who gives up in the end...
So if you work for someone for 20 years and then someone comes along and buys the business you worked for and you don't like the new managemnt your free to quit. That is unless the new employer chooses to can your ass because he doesn't like the t-shirt you wore to work (and in a "right to work" state they can do that). LMAO, the truth of the matter is that the average worker is treated like property, or in other words, a slave. The only freedom he really has is he is free to quit.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Did you miss all my posts above? It seems so. Opportunity or security, you decide. The only truth here is that if you want the security of a slave, then you're going to be treated as one and paid accordingly. Please don't complain to me after you get what you wanted.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
I'm a CPA not an ERISA attorney. But that sounds illegal to me (if you didn't agree & sign off on it). I suggest you contact the US Dept of Labor and make an inquiry. May also be a state angency that can advise. Where I live brokers and their conduct is governed at the state level under the Secretary of State's office.
AFAIK, employEEs make the decision (employer can decide which brokerage firm "runs" the plan, but not individual empolyees investment coices).
Annuities (purchase) carry the highest commission for broker, etc. You'll likely get "hamered" on the backside if you try and cash-out. Bad choice for you, I think (good choice for broker).
Check it out, maybe you can get your money (and damages etc), or least get front-side & back-end commissions waived.
Fern
LOL, opportunity or security. There's no middle ground in your book, eh? I can't say that surprises me.
Your ideas are nothing but a recipe for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer, but then that's what you want, isn't it. I expect better then that for my hard work and I don't buy into your "one or the other" explanation.
I didn't check into it, but a friend who worked there was pretty knowledgabe (his wife also worked for the local CPA/Tax guy) checked into it and my understanding was that it was legal. He knew we had gotten ripped and as I recall he wanted to cash his in and put it into either the 401k plan or an IRA, but you couldn't evne do that. that was quite a while ago, but as I recall they had to be that way in order for it to be legal? Because it was a federally regualted retirement plan??
Does that sound right to you? I never checked into it myself though so???
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
As long as you keep calling hired workers slaves because they have choices and risks, I'm going to keep thinking you're an idiot. And that really shouldn't suprise you. Your ideas are nothing but poorly thought-out double-thinking wah-little-baby-wants-his-cake-and-eat-it-too nonsense. Get over yourself. Quit lying to yourself. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer because pussies like you want to be enslaved.
You always revert to the name calling, don't you. I think if you want to see a pussy, all you have to do is look in the mirror.
Besides, you should count yourself lucky. If we weren't such a "pussies" we'd shoot some assholes like you.
There you have it folks, now he's trying to insinuate that I'm a liar. BOOHOOOOO.
M: "Palehorse, you are an evangelical zealot who preaches to fatten his ego and reinforce his self induced hypnotic state. You are a Knower of Sacred Truths. Imagine where you will be if you lose your faith.
p: "I've had my share of obstacles along the way, and I do not think much could shake my resolve to continue striving for success. Since my faith is with myself, and not in some 3rd-party intangible, I believe I'll be fine as long as I continue breathing... thanks for all of your obviously genuine concern though.. it's heartwarming, really..."
M: You are more than welcome. You have faith in positive thinking, but I have faith in hopelessness. Your faith can be broken but mine already was. You have never had to recover from absolute defeat, but I have. I defeated the Nothing. That is why I say your castle is built on sand.
----------------
M: "It's a shame to build your castle on sand. What happens when Hawkings loses his brains. Won't he be just as beloved by God as before. That should be good for a coffee."
p: "I do not live my life believing that the love of any "God" is my ultimate reward."
M: I did not assume you did. My comments are read also, perhaps, by others. No, I see your god is the god of ego.
p: "Beyond that, I'm not quite sure wtf you were trying to say there... Please dumb your preaching down a bit for those of us who have not been "enlightened" by your Gods..."
M: It wasn't that hard. Hawkings, without much of a body still has his mind and a rarefied genius one at that. Take that away and you would have never even heard of him. He is who he is by chance just like everybody. You think you are a somebody because of your personal effort, but I say you are who you are purely by chance. You flatter your ego; I say bull crap. It is purely an accident you have a positive attitude and maybe your genes and brain chemicals. Your ego has a drive to distinguish itself out of need.
M: You mistake the power of a positive attitude with knowledge on how to have one or give one to others. You are psychologically naive, in my opinion. Some people go into the army and come out a mess.
p: Some people come into life, and come out a mess... such IS life.
M: Hehe, such is life..... Such is the dept of your ability to analyze superficially. You just basically agreed all is chance.
p: Do you fear me because of my positive attitude? Does it intimidate you in some way? Does my success make you feel inferior in some way? I believe the answer to all three is "yes"... and that's just sad.
M: Nope, my attitude is probably better than yours, so good in fact it don't need it. I can actually occasionally even have a negative thought. It's what comes of defeating the Nothing.
p: Btw, seeing you, of all people here at ATPN, call someone an "evangelical zealot," is fvcking priceless!
M: Priceless is right. All I have is yours free. As some great Zen Master once said: "if you have a pumpkin I will give you one and if you haven't I'll take it away."
In short I believe that yours is a message of egotism and disguised hate. You have a need to feel like somebody because you can get someplace. You preach to others they can get there too if they just believe they can, so you hand them the tools to hate themselves. "I am a nobody because I am just too worthless to believe in me." Your positive attitude preaching is a disease. Take your positive attitude and shove it someplace where it leads by example. Go straight ahead. Pull the world in your wake. Make life better for all those around you by shining your inner light. Move mountains out of people's way. Make the seas part. May all your dreams come true even unto the highest.
p: "I've had my share of obstacles along the way, and I do not think much could shake my resolve to continue striving for success. Since my faith is with myself, and not in some 3rd-party intangible, I believe I'll be fine as long as I continue breathing... thanks for all of your obviously genuine concern though.. it's heartwarming, really..."
M: You are more than welcome. You have faith in positive thinking, but I have faith in hopelessness. Your faith can be broken but mine already was. You have never had to recover from absolute defeat, but I have. I defeated the Nothing. That is why I say your castle is built on sand.
----------------
M: "It's a shame to build your castle on sand. What happens when Hawkings loses his brains. Won't he be just as beloved by God as before. That should be good for a coffee."
p: "I do not live my life believing that the love of any "God" is my ultimate reward."
M: I did not assume you did. My comments are read also, perhaps, by others. No, I see your god is the god of ego.
p: "Beyond that, I'm not quite sure wtf you were trying to say there... Please dumb your preaching down a bit for those of us who have not been "enlightened" by your Gods..."
M: It wasn't that hard. Hawkings, without much of a body still has his mind and a rarefied genius one at that. Take that away and you would have never even heard of him. He is who he is by chance just like everybody. You think you are a somebody because of your personal effort, but I say you are who you are purely by chance. You flatter your ego; I say bull crap. It is purely an accident you have a positive attitude and maybe your genes and brain chemicals. Your ego has a drive to distinguish itself out of need.
M: You mistake the power of a positive attitude with knowledge on how to have one or give one to others. You are psychologically naive, in my opinion. Some people go into the army and come out a mess.
p: Some people come into life, and come out a mess... such IS life.
M: Hehe, such is life..... Such is the dept of your ability to analyze superficially. You just basically agreed all is chance.
p: Do you fear me because of my positive attitude? Does it intimidate you in some way? Does my success make you feel inferior in some way? I believe the answer to all three is "yes"... and that's just sad.
M: Nope, my attitude is probably better than yours, so good in fact it don't need it.
I can actually occasionally even have a negative thought. It's what comes of defeating the Nothing. p: Btw, seeing you, of all people here at ATPN, call someone an "evangelical zealot," is fvcking priceless!
M: Priceless is right. All I have is yours free. As some great Zen Master once said: "if you have a pumpkin I will give you one and if you haven't I'll take it away."
In short I believe that yours is a message of egotism and disguised hate. You have a need to feel like somebody because you can get someplace. You preach to others they can get there too if they just believe they can, so you hand them the tools to hate themselves. "I am a nobody because I am just too worthless to believe in me." Your positive attitude preaching is a disease. Take your positive attitude and shove it someplace where it leads by example. Go straight ahead. Pull the world in your wake. Make life better for all those around you by shining your inner light. Move mountains out of people's way. Make the seas part. May all your dreams come true even unto the highest.
By the way, a gentleman with the most positive attitude I've ever seen once gave me his business card. It said:
I am the Divinely Beloved who loves you more than you can possibly ever love yourself. Relax and be happy.
I am the Divinely Beloved who loves you more than you can possibly ever love yourself. Relax and be happy.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
No.
But maybe the plan wasn't a 401(k)?
I've never seen where an employER can make investment decisions in a 401(k). Under a 401(k) each employee has a (legally) seperate account.
The employER can choose who adminsters the plan (Merrill Lynch etc), but not what is purchased with the funds in each employEEs account.
Before I posted the above, I googles evry which way and visited the DOL site ect.
If you've got spare time, double check that it was, in fact, a 401(k). Then check your papers to make sure that you didn't (knowingly or unknowingly) sign off (agree in writing) to cash out the investments in your 401(K) and purchase an annuity.
The company was likely liquidated upon sale (asset sale/purchase versus stock sale/purchase). As such, the 401(k) plan was terminated and employees could elect a direct rollover of the funds, or take the distribution themselves (would be taxable, unless they themselves rolled it over). Even if the company was NOT liquidated, most require that ex-employees vacate the 401(k) plan (direct rollover or take distribution themselves).
So likely the funds in your 401(k) were transfered into an IRA. And annuities purchased and held within IRA account.
If so, go after somebody's nuts. Get them in trouble. An annuity is nothing other than a government "wrapper" or vessel that holds investments - the point to the "wrapper or vessel is that while inside, no taxation of investment earnings is taxable (technically it's deffered).
An IRA is nothing other than a "wrapper" or vessel to hold investments. Exactly the same as an annuity - no investment income taxation until pay-out time occurs.
So, you paid for an expensive "wrapper" (the annuity) when you didn't need it because the money was going into an IRA (wrapper) anyway.
You don't put annities or tax free investments (e.g., muni bonds) into an IRA. No need for a wrapper within a wrapper, it's clearly redundant.
Obviously, the unnecessary expense and uselessness of this manouvre (if that happend) was NOT explained to you. I have seen this before. Brokers do it to enrich themselves at the clients' expense.
IMHO, (notwithstanding the boss doing this) it is abusive and fraud. Complaints s/b made. The brokerage firm s/b pursued for reimbursement & fines. The NASD (National Association of Securities Dealers) should be informed & a complaint filed. They may make recompense. A complaint s/b file with the state governing agency.
Is 10 yrs too late? I don't know. If any of the above agencies mention it, I'd respond -why let the broker continue with this, investigate and see if he's still up to these shenanigans. Why should more people get ripped off?
If after reviewing your records, you confirm wrongdoing:
Contact fellow co-working. File complaints together (agencies etc).
Consider the group meeting to gether with an attorney for siut against employer if he purcashed annuities w/o permission using 401(k) funds.
Against broker, my have a chance of class action if their firm did this to others across the board. Otherwise, just you guys against them.
If after checking through your papers you have questions. PM me if you want.
Fern
If you cannot make emotional statements, I pity you. But to make pithy emotional statements you would want to know something about your emotions. You are biased against emotion because you do not know what you feel.
And here we have it. You do not know that competition is hate because you do not know what you feel. But I know what you feel and so you see me as a threat.
No the plan that he replaced with an annuity was NOT a 401k plan. I think it was started before 401k's and IRA's were even around.
Thanks for the offer of help though, I appreciate it!!
Pokes a lot of Smot? Hehe. Maybe you could translate that.
The Sufis say that Truth is a substance that has its own justice built right in. It can't be given to those who don't deserve it and can't be kept from those who do.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
Unfortunately you are closer than you realize.
As Trent Reznor says, "Grey would be the color, if I had a heart"
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
wait what?
if someone has more skill than someone else, he hates?
if someone has a better idea, he hates?
What am I missing?
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Why? I'm not one of the rich you claim to hate. Hell, you're the big landowner, right? So you're probably richer than I am. So what would you shoot me for? Crimethink?
In the meantime, nature makes us unequal and works to keep us that way. We are so unequal in so many countless ways that to focus solely on the inequalities of material possessions seems to me more than a bit shallow and petty, especially coming from Americans who obviously don't have to worry about their next meal or bed. Somewhere is a rich man who wishes he had his health instead. Somewhere is a rich man who wishes he had his children's love instead. Etc.
You are missing the fact that you are blind to what you feel, as I already said. Where do you get the absurd notion of better? What makes you compare? The moment you say better you also say worse. The moment worse is created you will be told that is what you are. Better and worse means you have feelings about who you are. Don't you see that my ideas here are better than yours and because you don't want to feel inferior to me you argue?
Now if I were like palehorse I would argue with you till I'm blue in the face to push my ideology, but I already know I don't have a chance. Only you can prevent forest fires.TRENDING THREADS
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