Annoying religious stickers on cars. (POLL & PICS INSIDE)

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JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: JackBurton
So you are saying it is pointless to quote scripture since it is inaccurate? Now we are getting somewhere.
No, I am saying that you are taking allegorical portions of the Bible and positing them as being "facts" in a scientific sense. Of course the Bible is going to sound stupid if you take things out of context or pretend that allegory is being presented as factual in a scientific sense. Heck, if you take the metaphors and posit them as statements of fact it will sound stupid too. Furthermore, there are things that are beyond logic and reason. It is neither logical nor reasonable to expect that anything of man can explain everything. Logic and reason are things of man. Ergo, neither logic nor reason can explain everything.

ZV
Man, you are right. So since we are throwing logic out the window, you can then accept Bigfoot, the Lockness Monster, the Easter Bunny, fairies, mermaids, Peter Pan, Jesus, He-Man, Superman, Hercules, and anything else you can think of as being real? Man, you are on a roll. ;)

And sorry man, your "allegory" excuse ain't gonna fly. The quote I posted above weren't meant to be taken as "little stories," they were meant to be taken as God's rule:

ON DEALING WITH PERSONAL INJURY
"...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25

"...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39

Does that sound like a little story?
I am the last person who would throw out logic entirely. But only an idiot would claim that logic and reason can explain everything. Logic and reason are incredibly useful within certain boundaries but they are not omnipotent. There are things beyond logic and beyond reason, but not everything is beyond logic and reason. Relying completely on logic and reason is every bit as foolish as throwing them out entirely.

As for your quote, who says that turning the other cheek refers to a physical smiting? As I said, metaphors. You're obviously intelligent enough to understand these distinctions so I can only assume that you are intentionally being obtuse out of malice.

ZV

Ok, so you are saying logic should be used some of the time, but other times you can throw it out the window, right? Logically, if you believe in an invisible man in the sky, do you also believe in invisible fairies too? Obviously you have to throw logic out the window because your mind can not grasp the concept of fairies creating everything and protecting you everyday (even though you'll never see them). Yes, fairies are magical beings that should have time set aside for them on Saturday to worship (Sunday has already been reserved for the invisible man in the sky). You'll never see them or here them, but you just know they are there because a few guys got together and wrote a book about them. And obviously, if you write a book about fairies, they exist. ;)
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, so you are saying logic should be used some of the time, but other times you can throw it out the window, right? Logically, if you believe in an invisible man in the sky, do you also believe in invisible fairies too? Obviously you have to throw logic out the window because your mind can not grasp the concept of fairies creating everything and protecting you everyday (even though you'll never see them). Yes, fairies are magical beings that should have time set aside for them on Saturday to worship (Sunday has already been reserved for the invisible man in the sky). You'll never see them or here them, but you just know they are there because a few guys got together and wrote a book about them. And obviously, if you write a book about fairies, they exist. ;)
It's not as though you can just throw out logic whenever you please. But one must recognise when it is insufficient. Your all-or-nothing aproach is clearly absurd and you have to recognise this yourself. I say again, you are obviously intelligent enough to understand what I (and others) are saying. Why do you insist on being intentionally obtuse? The only explanation I can think of is pure malice, though I welcome you to give another.

ZV
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Obviously you are much more intelligent than I am. So how do you believe in invisible people in the sky but not fairies? Please explain. I'd like to see your thought process.



 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Obviously you are much more intelligent than I am. So how do you believe in invisible people in the sky but not fairies? Please explain. I'd like to see your thought process.
I have already established that such things are beyond logic and reason. How then can there be a "thought progess" behind them? You are asking for a definition of something that is indefineable. My reasons are my own and for me to expect my reasons to convince another is an arrogance on my part that I am not ready to commit.

And in regards to the comment about my intellectual capacities, touche. ;)

ZV
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Obviously you are much more intelligent than I am. So how do you believe in invisible people in the sky but not fairies? Please explain. I'd like to see your thought process.
I have already established that such things are beyond logic and reason. How then can there be a "thought progess" behind them? You are asking for a definition of something that is indefineable. My reasons are my own and for me to expect my reasons to convince another is an arrogance on my part that I am not ready to commit.

And in regards to the comment about my intellectual capacities, touche. ;)

ZV

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So your belief requires no logic, the same amount of logic required to believe in fairies. Correct? Well from now on you'll also have to consider a "fairy believer" sane. Fair enough. ;)
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So your belief requires no logic, the same amount of logic required to believe in fairies. Correct? Well from now on you'll also have to consider a "fairy believer" sane. Fair enough. ;)
Sane? You think I consider myself sane? I hope that I never consider myself sane. Faith is completely insane, I'll be the first to admit it. Then again, I have never seen sanity as something to which one should aspire.

ZV
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So your belief requires no logic, the same amount of logic required to believe in fairies. Correct? Well from now on you'll also have to consider a "fairy believer" sane. Fair enough. ;)
Sane? You think I consider myself sane? I hope that I never consider myself sane. Faith is completely insane, I'll be the first to admit it. Then again, I have never seen sanity as something to which one should aspire.

ZV
No but I believe lunacy is well within your grasp. ;)
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,367
4
81
I am shocked and appalled at those of you who would dare write the full name of B-gfoot
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Kev
I am shocked and appalled at those of you who would dare write the full name of B-gfoot

Please. Those of us who believe in the one true Yeti daHimalayama don't trifle with hyphens.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So your belief requires no logic, the same amount of logic required to believe in fairies. Correct? Well from now on you'll also have to consider a "fairy believer" sane. Fair enough. ;)
Sane? You think I consider myself sane? I hope that I never consider myself sane. Faith is completely insane, I'll be the first to admit it. Then again, I have never seen sanity as something to which one should aspire.

ZV
No but I believe lunacy is well within your grasp. ;)
I have already grasped it and made it mine. ;) The problem with sanity is that it is a culturally-dependant construct. The very nature of sanity is relitivistic. I am insane, I admit it. Insanity is simply not falling within the cultural mores of one's society and I clearly to not fit into the norms of the society in which I live. By definition, this makes me insane. In order to have faith in America (and in most Western countries) one has no choice but to break with certain cultural norms and to reside outside the cultural mythos. In layman's terms, one has no choice but to be insane.

ZV
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Kev
I am shocked and appalled at those of you who would dare write the full name of B-gfoot
Please. Those of us who believe in the one true Yeti daHimalayama don't trifle with hyphens.
Funniest thing in this thread by a long shot. :D

ZV
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So your belief requires no logic, the same amount of logic required to believe in fairies. Correct? Well from now on you'll also have to consider a "fairy believer" sane. Fair enough. ;)
Sane? You think I consider myself sane? I hope that I never consider myself sane. Faith is completely insane, I'll be the first to admit it. Then again, I have never seen sanity as something to which one should aspire.

ZV
No but I believe lunacy is well within your grasp. ;)
I have already grasped it and made it mine. ;) The problem with sanity is that it is a culturally-dependant construct. The very nature of sanity is relitivistic. I am insane, I admit it. Insanity is simply not falling within the cultural mores of one's society and I clearly to not fit into the norms of the society in which I live. By definition, this makes me insane. In order to have faith in America (and in most Western countries) one has no choice but to break with certain cultural norms and to reside outside the cultural mythos. In layman's terms, one has no choice but to be insane.

ZV
Now I know why logic plays only but a small part in your life. Logic to the insane is as concrete as...well...invisible people in the sky. ;)

 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Kev
I am shocked and appalled at those of you who would dare write the full name of B-gfoot
Please. Those of us who believe in the one true Yeti daHimalayama don't trifle with hyphens.
Funniest thing in this thread by a long shot. :D

ZV

Something we agree on. ;) That was pretty good Jzero. :)
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Now I know why logic plays only but a small part in your life. Logic to the insane is as concrete as...well...invisible people in the sky. ;)

You're awfully concerned about these so-called "invisible people in the sky." I don't think you have the necessary competence to worry about other people's sanity.

"The man who has everything figured out is probably a fool. College examinations notwithstanding, it takes a very smart fella to say 'I don't know the answer.'"
-Henry Drummond in Inherit The Wind
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Kev
I am shocked and appalled at those of you who would dare write the full name of B-gfoot
Please. Those of us who believe in the one true Yeti daHimalayama don't trifle with hyphens.
Funniest thing in this thread by a long shot. :D

ZV

Something we agree on. ;) That was pretty good Jzero. :)

Interfaith Group Hug! ;)
 

Optimus

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2000
3,618
0
0
The choice to believe in a higher power or deity is a complex one.

Whichever way a person goes on that decision should be OK with everyone else.

So, how about the religious here keep it toned down and don't ever look like you are "ramming it down people's throats".

And how about the atheists/agnostics NOT make fun and ridicule?

i.e. why don't we just accept that other people chose differently on this one, and let it go at that? Respect one another's spirituality or non-spirituality?

I don't think anyone can call themselves civilized, decent, or tolerant unless they can agree to the above principle.

Just MHO.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Now I know why logic plays only but a small part in your life. Logic to the insane is as concrete as...well...invisible people in the sky. ;)
You have surpassed JZero's humour with that one. To say that logic plays only a small role in my life is rather akin to saying that water plays only a small part in making up the oceans.

ZV
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Kev
I am shocked and appalled at those of you who would dare write the full name of B-gfoot
Please. Those of us who believe in the one true Yeti daHimalayama don't trifle with hyphens.
Funniest thing in this thread by a long shot. :D

ZV

Something we agree on. ;) That was pretty good Jzero. :)

Interfaith Group Hug! ;)

Nothing brings together differences like laughing at the expense of others. :D

- M4H
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: alkemyst
G-D

::yawn:: no pagans, don't mock me and ridicule my beliefs, it really hurts my feelings!
rolleye.gif
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alkemyst
G-D

::yawn:: no pagans, don't mock me and ridicule my beliefs, it really hurts my feelings!
rolleye.gif

Yes, because anyone who doesn't ascribe to your twisted beliefs is a Pagan ... you know, all the Jewish, Islamic, Muslim, Buddists of the world ... it's all a sham. We really just go home at night, dance around a fire, sacrifice goats and eat unborn children.

rolleye.gif


- M4H
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Jzero
Now I know why logic plays only but a small part in your life. Logic to the insane is as concrete as...well...invisible people in the sky. ;)

You're awfully concerned about these so-called "invisible people in the sky." I don't think you have the necessary competence to worry about other people's sanity.

"The man who has everything figured out is probably a fool. College examinations notwithstanding, it takes a very smart fella to say 'I don't know the answer.'"
-Henry Drummond in Inherit The Wind

First off there is nothing "so-called" about the invisible people they believe in. Just because they give them a name doesn't make them anymore real. Secondly, I'm not concerned about invisible people, I'm concerned about the people that believe in them. You'd be a little concerned if you gave the equation 2+2=4 to someone and they insisted the answer was not 4 but 5. And when asked how they came up with 4, they said, "2+2=4 but there is a invisible 1 that is always there. You don't see it, but it's there. You just have to believe."

I don't think you have the necessary competence to worry about other people's sanity.
When I start believing in invisible magic creatures, you can then start questioning my competence. Until then, I suggest you start looking a little bit more into your own competence. ;)
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Let's just say you are worried enough about them that you had to alter your sig to make sure everyone believes you don't believe in them.
A little paranoid?
 

luv2chill

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2000
4,611
0
76
Originally posted by: Optimus
The choice to believe in a higher power or deity is a complex one.

Whichever way a person goes on that decision should be OK with everyone else.

So, how about the religious here keep it toned down and don't ever look like you are "ramming it down people's throats".

And how about the atheists/agnostics NOT make fun and ridicule?

i.e. why don't we just accept that other people chose differently on this one, and let it go at that? Respect one another's spirituality or non-spirituality?

I don't think anyone can call themselves civilized, decent, or tolerant unless they can agree to the above principle.

Just MHO.
And a hell of a good one at that. Good to see ya back Optimus :)

l2c

 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
Originally posted by: luv2chill
Originally posted by: Optimus
The choice to believe in a higher power or deity is a complex one.

Whichever way a person goes on that decision should be OK with everyone else.

So, how about the religious here keep it toned down and don't ever look like you are "ramming it down people's throats".

And how about the atheists/agnostics NOT make fun and ridicule?

i.e. why don't we just accept that other people chose differently on this one, and let it go at that? Respect one another's spirituality or non-spirituality?

I don't think anyone can call themselves civilized, decent, or tolerant unless they can agree to the above principle.

Just MHO.
And a hell of a good one at that. Good to see ya back Optimus :)

l2c

When I stop getting told I'm going to Hell for my beliefs or lack thereof, I'll gladly curb the flaming.

Until then, no dice.

I don't have a problem with people believing. It's just those that insist that they have the ONE TRUE ANSWER and all those who don't should BURN IN THE ETERNAL FLAMES OF HELL ... not naming names or anything of course ...

- M4H
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alkemyst
G-D

::yawn:: no pagans, don't mock me and ridicule my beliefs, it really hurts my feelings!
rolleye.gif

Yes, because anyone who doesn't ascribe to your twisted beliefs is a Pagan ... you know, all the Jewish, Islamic, Muslim, Buddists of the world ... it's all a sham. We really just go home at night, dance around a fire, sacrifice goats and eat unborn children.

rolleye.gif


- M4H

Yep. While I doubt you participate in Luciferian ritual worship, you might as well be if you're not following Yeshua. There is only one path to salvation and that is Yeshua. If you're not saved, you're a pagan. Does that do it for you?