Annoying religious stickers on cars. (POLL & PICS INSIDE)

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
You do understand that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, correct? Are you familiar with how the Torah is passed down in the "Jewish" culture? The amount of textual errors in the Torah is something on the order of only thousandths of one percent.
I'm not going to argue with your belief about saying names of the L-rd. You can believe whatever you like and that's fine. I would rather be safe than sorry, though.
Concerning your studies "at a non-religious school... only focused on a few things" don't you think you're overstepping your knowledge just a bit? I don't know what you've studied but your statement indicates you've done very little of it. If this is the case, I suggest you study a bit more before you engage in complex debates such as the history of the Bible and the beliefs contained therein. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion and to the right to state said opinion - but perhaps you should preempt your statments of "fact" (based on your limited study) with the simple phrase "in my opinion", rather than stating such things as fact.
I'm not criticizing you or your studies, far from it. I believe everyone can benefit from studying the Bible and having theological discussions about it, even if they don't believe the Bible is the literal word of G-d. There are many valuable life lessons that can be learned from studying the Bible, and I think everyone can benefit from that.

Old test was hebrew/chaldean is some parts, new test was mostly greek with some hebrew and some aramic.....the Torah I believe is just the first few books and not the whole old testament.

The thing is Hebrew like English has changed over the years. Somethings can be the same word but mean the opposite of the interpretation....and some words are lost.

How did my statement preclude me studying very little? A religious school, much like a religion will be biased....at a secular school there is no bias unless the professor enforces one. For the record I read about religious issues at least once a week.

I have no idea where you are getting anything I say is any more than my opinion....as a matter of fact I stated that clearly:

no I haven't gone to the original text's however I am not say what is and what is not...I always tell the listener to look into it themselves

....another lack of literacy though you just let the whole forum know is enclosed in this line 'but perhaps you should preempt your statments of "fact" (based on your limited study) with the simple phrase "in my opinion"' ... opinion is always assumed....you never assume the writer is stating facts even if the writer says so....only times facts can be assumed is in a research paper, book, if that's the intention.

You contradict yourself each sentence, you critized my studies and then you say you are not critizing....you need to make a stand one way or another...as it is you jump to each side of the line.

Now there are Torah scrolls and Dead Sea Scrolls which talk of God....these are left out of the Bible but most researchers feel they are canonical. Some are error filled though.

Now that is were the debate comes, are the errors correct and the Bible wrong....also there are still contradictions throughout the Bible....the general response is those two things aren't meant to be read together

You stated you "studied at a non-religious school... only focused on a few things". This implies very limited study. I don't see how I've twisted your words to suit any purpose... Everyone has a bias about something - it's human nature. Don't think that just because you studied religion at a secular school there was no bias in the course.
Concerning "contradictions" in the Bible, my belief is that these are simply a result of the thousands of years of reproduction and translation of the word of the L-rd, not contradictions themselves.
My point with the Torah comment was simply that some parts of the Bible have been preserved in as close to their original form as humanly possible.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
So let me get this straight. According to *your* interpretation of the Bible, pointing out iniquity in one's fellow man is "placing a stumbling block in his path"? I don't hate the pagans, I just hate their sins (along with mine and everyone else's). If a few words from one man causes another man to forsake the L-rd without possibility of re-acceptance, then that man was already doomed.

Nice insinuation that my interpretation must be suspect without offering anything aside from the classic "argument from intimidation" to back it up.

Regardless, you are placing a stumbling block in their path. A stumbling block is not a permanent wall. Your method of "discussion" is higly confrontational and highly arrogant. Both of these traits allow non-believers to look at you as a confirmation of their perception of Christians as being self-righteous jerks who are more concerned with finger-pointing than with helping and loving others. Such re-enforcements serve only to keep others away from Him. They don't keep people away permanently, but they do present a stumbling block.

ZV

You can read arrogance and hate and whatever else you like into my statements, but only myself and the L-rd truly know what my intent was. I'll leave that up to Him to judge.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

You cannot argue away the fact that your methods drive others away whether you intend for them to or not. It's just that simple.

ZV

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
So let me get this straight. According to *your* interpretation of the Bible, pointing out iniquity in one's fellow man is "placing a stumbling block in his path"? I don't hate the pagans, I just hate their sins (along with mine and everyone else's). If a few words from one man causes another man to forsake the L-rd without possibility of re-acceptance, then that man was already doomed.

Nice insinuation that my interpretation must be suspect without offering anything aside from the classic "argument from intimidation" to back it up.

Regardless, you are placing a stumbling block in their path. A stumbling block is not a permanent wall. Your method of "discussion" is higly confrontational and highly arrogant. Both of these traits allow non-believers to look at you as a confirmation of their perception of Christians as being self-righteous jerks who are more concerned with finger-pointing than with helping and loving others. Such re-enforcements serve only to keep others away from Him. They don't keep people away permanently, but they do present a stumbling block.

ZV

You can read arrogance and hate and whatever else you like into my statements, but only myself and the L-rd truly know what my intent was. I'll leave that up to Him to judge.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

You cannot argue away the fact that your methods drive others away whether you intend for them to or not. It's just that simple.

ZV

ohhhh noes!! Flyermax2k3 is really da deebil!@!@!@!

 

[Redviffer]

Funny post. Those that get offended by this are, well, it can't be said any other way other than they need to grow some thicker skin. Maybe JackB could have said "Annoying stickers on cars", as I'm sure there are plenty of non-religious stickers out there that annoy people. What would really annoy ME is if someone were putting stickers on my vehicle, now that would be more than annoying. That is sort of the same thing that a lot of people don't get; don't put your sticker on me. What that translates to is: I'm fine with my religion (or lack thereof), your fine with your religion, you can try to sell it to me once, but when I say no thanks, just fvcking drop it. Most of the people I run into (including some family members), don't seem to get that concept. I work on, service, build ( and sometimes destroy computers), but I don't call people all the time for the sole reason of selling them another computer. I ask them once, and then drop it. If they want one, they'll call me. Same thing: if someone really wants to know more about religion, they'll ask. Otherwise, keep it to yourself. Treat other people the same way you would want to be treated in return. I'm not sure if that is in the bible someplace, and frankly I don't care, it's plain common sense.


Oh, and that "ad" for the HOT DEAL was AWESOME!!!

 

[iskim86]

jesus ate my dick

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Redviffer
if someone really wants to know more about religion, they'll ask. Otherwise, keep it to yourself. Treat other people the same way you would want to be treated in return. I'm not sure if that is in the bible someplace, and frankly I don't care, it's plain common sense.

So it's OK to believe, but we're not allowed to tell anyone that we believe.

In that case, you're allowed to have your opinion that we should keep our belief to ourselves, but only as long as you keep your opinion to yourself.

ZV

 

[Redviffer]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Redviffer
if someone really wants to know more about religion, they'll ask. Otherwise, keep it to yourself. Treat other people the same way you would want to be treated in return. I'm not sure if that is in the bible someplace, and frankly I don't care, it's plain common sense.

So it's OK to believe, but we're not allowed to tell anyone that we believe.

In that case, you're allowed to have your opinion that we should keep our belief to ourselves, but only as long as you keep your opinion to yourself.

ZV

Well, you sort of get the point. You need to reread what I said. It's ok to let people know what you believe, just don't try to push it on everyone else. Your beliefs are not everyone else's beliefs, but that's not necessarily wrong. Actually, it's more along the lines of don't get offended that everyone else doesn't share your opinion/belief/religion/crap, as there isn't any real way to actually stop someone from posting if they aren't breaking any rules. Like I said, it's common sense, or common courtesy, of which it seems that MOST religious people don't seem to possess.

My own opinion: Makes me wonder what else they don't possess.

Lastly, I DID keep my opinion to myself, and you HAD the chance to keep your belief to yourself, but for 6 pages long you DIDN'T. You can discuss religion all you want, I don't care. What I do care about is you all coming into this thread and hijacking it into a religious discussion. Discuss your beliefs all you want, start your thread about it. This thread was never about religion, or beliefs, or rights, it was about stickers. Funny, simple, stickers. On that matter, there are plenty of non-religious stickers that annoy me, in fact, I'd have to say there are more of those than there are of religious ones.

 

[alkemyst]

The easiest way to avoid discussion one does not want to see is to not read/listen to it.

However, the way many religious organizations go forward is to ban and eliminate the conversation/discussion.

They want you to listen and listen to nothing else.