Ann Coulter's final solution the Occupy problem: Shoot them

[monovillage]

Posting in an Ann Coulter thread. Hey why not? Apparently she's popular.

You should have taken a poll for P&N, how many agree with 'shooting'. I think you'll find there's no reason to discuss what is almost universally opposed.

I'm just trying to figure out what the new rules are about what's acceptable, it seems that shooting conservatives and calling conservative women a wise and beautiful woman is OK, but we have to be careful about racist comments because they're bad. If Coulter was an African-American i wonder is what is acceptable would change? Probably not.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Racist is bad, but sexist is good. OK got it.

I don't see the C word as sexist. Nobody is saying Ann Coulter is a bad person or merits criticism because she's female, but because she says such hateful things. I see as fungible with her calling John Edwards a "lovely human," and calling John McCain a "douchebag." Your feigned outrage changes nothing.

 

[cybrsage]

I'm just trying to figure out what the new rules are about what's acceptable, it seems that shooting conservatives and calling conservative women a wise and beautiful woman is OK, but we have to be careful about racist comments because they're bad. If Coulter was an African-American i wonder is what is acceptable would change? Probably not.

From my experience, if you are a liberal you can make direct, hard, personal attacks against other members. If you are a conservative, you cannot.

That is the AnandTech P&N difference.


As for the difference between the two offensive words, I showed previously the are considered the same thing.

 

[monovillage]

I don't see the C word as sexist. Nobody is saying Ann Coulter is a bad person or merits criticism because she's female, but because she says such hateful things. I see as fungible with her calling John Edwards a "lovely human," and calling John McCain a "douchebag." Your feigned outrage changes nothing.

No feigned outrage, if anything i'm amused by the hypocritical assholes like yourself. You just don't want to admit that for those on the left every word and phrase is allowed as long as it's aimed at a conservative. Calling Clarence Thomas an "Uncle Tom" is fine, calling Coulter a "wise and beautiful woman" is fine, calling the Tea Party racist is fine, calling Larry Craig a lovely human is fine, but if any of those things are said about those on the left, they become racist or sexist or homophobic. The left has pretty much labeled any criticism of Pres. Obama as racist if you read your share of leftist pundits. So go ahead and pretend that "wise and beautiful woman" isn't about being a female, it's good for a laugh.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

No feigned outrage, if anything i'm amused by the hypocritical assholes like yourself. You just don't want to admit that for those on the left every word and phrase is allowed as long as it's aimed at a conservative. Calling Clarence Thomas an "Uncle Tom" is fine, calling Coulter a "wise and beautiful woman" is fine, calling the Tea Party racist is fine, calling Larry Craig a lovely human is fine, but if any of those things are said about those on the left, they become racist or sexist or homophobic. The left has pretty much labeled any criticism of Pres. Obama as racist if you read your share of leftist pundits. So go ahead and pretend that "wise and beautiful woman" isn't about being a female, it's good for a laugh.

Find me one example of me engaging in one scintilla of the hypocrisy you're talking about and we'll talk. Also, please show me where you have accused anyone of racism or sexism toward any political figure on the left, since you purport to be so bothered by someone calling Ann Coulter the C word. Otherwise, I will regard you as just another member of this forum who contributes heat but no light. To borrow your own terminology, I am no hypocrite, but all signs point to you being an asshole, and a whiny one at that.

 

[cybrsage]

Find me one example of me engaging in one scintilla of the hypocrisy you're talking about and we'll talk.

Your own statement says there is a huge difference.

There is a huge difference between profanity and racism.

After being shown that you are wrong, you refuse to admit it.

 

[monovillage]

Find me one example of me engaging in one scintilla of the hypocrisy you're talking about and we'll talk. Also, please show me where you have accused anyone of racism or sexism toward any political figure on the left, since you purport to be so bothered by someone calling Ann Coulter the C word. Otherwise, I will regard you as just another member of this forum who contributes heat but no light. To borrow your own terminology, I am no hypocrite, but all signs point to you being an asshole, and a whiny one at that.

I didn't say you did, i said pundits on the left along with a number of contributors to this forum. Sorry, but it's not all about you, it's about the left on this forum and in the media trying to control criticism by controlling language. At times I am an asshole, but not this time.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Your own statement says there is a huge difference.

After being shown that you are wrong, you refuse to admit it.

How was I shown to be wrong?

You seem to me to be saying that the reason racist remarks are objectionable is not the underlying motivation but the words used. By that logic, using the N word would be objectionable, since in common parlance it's considered profanity, but saying "black people are lazy stinking apes" would not, since the latter contains no word that is even colorably profane. I think that would be an absurd position to take, since my objection to racist speech is a function of the sentiment that underlies it rather than the words being used, but that seems to me to be what you're saying. If I'm wrong, just tell me why rather than proclaiming victory without a word of explanation about how you reached that conclusion.

While you're at it, also please explain why it's fine for Ann Coulter to use the words "lovely human" and "douchebag," but not for people to call her the C word.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I didn't say you did, i said pundits on the left along with a number of contributors to this forum. Sorry, but it's not all about you, it's about the left on this forum and in the media trying to control criticism by controlling language. At times I am an asshole, but not this time.

You specifically called me a "hypocritical asshole." I'd ask that you either take that back or substantiate why you believe it.

 

[monovillage]

You specifically called me a "hypocritical asshole." I'd ask that you either take that back or substantiate why you believe it.

When i pointed out the racism from the left "calling Thomas and "Uncle Tom" you made no comment about it, even though you were quite huffily against "racism" in and earlier post. It's pretty obvious you're an asshole, who else would say their mother supported that language?

"In fact I have discussed her with my wonderful mother, and our only area of disagreement was that she finds Ann Coulter Satan's spawn........."

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

When i pointed out the racism from the left "calling Thomas and "Uncle Tom" you made no comment about it, even though you were quite huffily against "racism" in and earlier post. It's pretty obvious you're an asshole, who else would say their mother supported that language?

"In fact I have discussed her with my wonderful mother, and our only area of disagreement was that she finds Ann Coulter Satan's spawn........."

Why would I be obligated to comment on everything you posted? I am not defending anyone's racism. According to your logic (and I am being charitable by using the word "logic" to describe it), you are essentially adopting Ann Coulter's hateful language by failing to repudiate it, and thus yourself a "hypocritical asshole" (a personal attack which you, not I, started with).

For what it's worth I think the use of the phrase "Uncle Tom," is a little more complex than pure racism - obviously many of the people criticizing Clarence Thomas and using that phrase were in fact themselves black. In any case I never said it was acceptable for white people to use that term - I don't think it is.

I love my mother and see nothing wrong with talking about her and her opinions. The only reason I brought her up was as an illustration of the fact that disliking Ann Coulter is not the exclusive province of men, for sexist reasons.

 

[monovillage]

Why would I be obligated to comment on everything you posted? I am not defending anyone's racism. According to your logic (and I am being charitable by using the word "logic" to describe it), you are essentially adopting Ann Coulter's hateful language by failing to repudiate it, and thus yourself a "hypocritical asshole" (a personal attack which you, not I, started with).

For what it's worth I think the use of the phrase "Uncle Tom," is a little more complex than pure racism - obviously many of the people criticizing Clarence Thomas and using that phrase were in fact themselves black. In any case I never said it was acceptable for white people to use that term - I don't think it is.

I love my mother and see nothing wrong with talking about her and her opinions. The only reason I brought her up was as an illustration of the fact that disliking Ann Coulter is not the exclusive province of men, for sexist reasons.

The point I was trying to make and I was not very good at it, is that offensive language whether it is used about race, sex, violence, sexual orientation etc. should either not be restricted at all in this forum and in public media or should be evenly applied to everyone. Another facet of my point is that the left routinely use offensive language about conservatives, but when the same language is used on progressives they scream that it's racist or violent or sexist. I want the same standards for language to apply to everybody regardless of their political orientation.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The point I was trying to make and I was not very good at it, is that offensive language whether it is used about race, sex, violence, sexual orientation etc. should either not be restricted at all in this forum and in public media or should be evenly applied to everyone. Another facet of my point is that the left routinely use offensive language about conservatives, but when the same language is used on progressives they scream that it's racist or violent or sexist. I want the same standards for language to apply to everybody regardless of their political orientation.

I wholeheartedly agree that standards should be consistent regardless of political affiliation. I would also observe that people on the right have no issue with infinite numbers of bigoted comments made by right-wing pundits, whereas they express (entirely phony, IMO) outrage at the "high-tech lynching" of Herman Cain. The reality is this is just human nature - obviously people are disposed to give greater leeway to those who are saying things they generally agree with. If this makes them "hypocritical assholes," fine - just make sure not to limit your criticism to those who don't share your political bent, lest you be a "hypocritical asshole" yourself.

Can you find me a single example of yourself criticizing a conservative for racist/sexist comments on this board?

 

[monovillage]

............Can you find me a single example of yourself criticizing a conservative for racist/sexist comments on this board?

Nope, I haven't, but i have mentioned some stupid points made by conservatives and it's something I should do more often. We all should be aware of our own biases, myself included, but that doesn't excuse the hypocrisy that some on the left will cheer sexist/racist/violent language against conservatives, but complain bitterly about any perceived impropriety against the left.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Nope, I haven't, but i have mentioned some stupid points made by conservatives and it's something I should do more often. We all should be aware of our own biases, myself included, but that doesn't excuse the hypocrisy that some on the left will cheer sexist/racist/violent language against conservatives, but complain bitterly about any perceived impropriety against the left.

Agreed, but again, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. There is no shortage of fairly overt sexist/racist/violent sentiment on the Republican side, together with outrage at purportedly sexist/racist/violent sentiment coming from Democrats (in some cases the very same person is expressing both things - e.g., Rush Limbaugh). I certainly agree that we should all try to do better, in any case. The irony of this being raised under this particular topic is that, as I said earlier, Ann Coulter's own slash-and-burn rhetoric is incredibly toxic and irresponsible.

 

[monovillage]

My own confirmation bias disagrees with your confirmation bias.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

My own confirmation bias disagrees with your confirmation bias.

Yeah, that pretty well sums it up. In any case you seem like a perfectly good guy, so can we stop calling each other assholes?

 

[monovillage]

Yeah, that pretty well sums it up. In any case you seem like a perfectly good guy, so can we stop calling each other assholes?

OK, but i am sometimes.

 

[Rainsford]

No feigned outrage, if anything i'm amused by the hypocritical assholes like yourself. You just don't want to admit that for those on the left every word and phrase is allowed as long as it's aimed at a conservative. Calling Clarence Thomas an "Uncle Tom" is fine, calling Coulter a "wise and beautiful woman" is fine, calling the Tea Party racist is fine, calling Larry Craig a lovely human is fine, but if any of those things are said about those on the left, they become racist or sexist or homophobic. The left has pretty much labeled any criticism of Pres. Obama as racist if you read your share of leftist pundits. So go ahead and pretend that "wise and beautiful woman" isn't about being a female, it's good for a laugh.

Conservatives bring this up quite often, and I still don't quite understand the point (except for it being a conveniently lazy way to complain about people you don't like of course). Not only does labeling all criticism of President Obama as "racist" not seem all that common, but when it comes to personal insults directed at righties, an equal number of conservatives can't stop complaining about it.

I know, complaining about "double standards" is a common part of a lot of arguments, and in some cases that's actually a problem. But I just don't see it here. Hateful commentary is at least as common on the right as the left, and complaining about it when it happens seems to hardly be the exclusive domain of one particular side. And for that matter, OVER playing the victim card to gain political points is hardly a technique unique to the left.

 

[Rainsford]

From my experience, if you are a liberal you can make direct, hard, personal attacks against other members. If you are a conservative, you cannot.

That is the AnandTech P&N difference.

I don't want to argue with your month of experience, but that's not really how we do things around here. However, we DO tend to frown on armchair moderating in public threads...so if you have a specific complaint, take it up with myself or another moderator in a private thread if you don't mind.

Rainsford
ATPN Moderator

 

[monovillage]

Conservatives bring this up quite often, and I still don't quite understand the point (except for it being a conveniently lazy way to complain about people you don't like of course). Not only does labeling all criticism of President Obama as "racist" not seem all that common, but when it comes to personal insults directed at righties, an equal number of conservatives can't stop complaining about it.

I know, complaining about "double standards" is a common part of a lot of arguments, and in some cases that's actually a problem. But I just don't see it here. Hateful commentary is at least as common on the right as the left, and complaining about it when it happens seems to hardly be the exclusive domain of one particular side. And for that matter, OVER playing the victim card to gain political points is hardly a technique unique to the left.

I think there was a poll here 6 months or a year back about moderation in this forum(iirc, it could have been just a topic). My vote was for more moderation in terms of racism, sexism, profanity etc. although I realize how tough it would be to put together a moderation policy in a forum like this and then enforce it. I think in the long run this forum would be a better place for debate/discussion about news and politics if the posters had to be a bit more careful in their language. Calling a woman a "wise and beautiful woman" is just something that makes me cringe.

In my words with Don Vito I admit to some measure of confirmation bias, it's something i'm aware of about myself and try (sometimes fail) to take into account. I also bring into this forum what I read/watch/hear out in the big, wide world and although what I refer to may not only be in this forum, it exists out in my everyday life. So if I see an editorial in my local paper or a letter to the editor i'll often bring that along to these forums. Hateful commentary from the left may not be as common here as from the right, but my own real world experience tells me that the left often get excused for it more often.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I think there was a poll here 6 months or a year back about moderation in this forum(iirc, it could have been just a topic). My vote was for more moderation in terms of racism, sexism, profanity etc. although I realize how tough it would be to put together a moderation policy in a forum like this and then enforce it. I think in the long run this forum would be a better place for debate/discussion about news and politics if the posters had to be a bit more careful in their language. Calling a woman a "wise and beautiful woman" is just something that makes me cringe.

In my words with Don Vito I admit to some measure of confirmation bias, it's something i'm aware of about myself and try (sometimes fail) to take into account. I also bring into this forum what I read/watch/hear out in the big, wide world and although what I refer to may not only be in this forum, it exists out in my everyday life. So if I see an editorial in my local paper or a letter to the editor i'll often bring that along to these forums. Hateful commentary from the left may not be as common here as from the right, but my own real world experience tells me that the left often get excused for it more often.

It's interesting you bring this up - I actually proposed, all the way back in 2004, more active moderation of this forum, as well as a gentlemen's agreement among members, in both cases to try to eliminate the personal attacks and focus on substantive discussion. The kernel of the idea came from a conservative member, shinerburke. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1333796

Many members on both sides of the political aisle joined me in my request. In those days the moderation was much less transparent - the moderators were anonymous - but there was also a more active anti-profanity policy - most profanity was blocked. The moderators indicated they didn't want to take the active role that we proposed and it went nowhere.

From my perspective (and this is obviously a personal choice), personal attacks between members are much more disruptive than profanity and/or derogatory comments about public figures like Ann Coulter who will never read the remarks. Certainly reasonable minds can differ on that, however.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Are you also concerned that Bill Maher has so many fans? Or Michael Moore? Or Reverend "White folks' greed runs a world in need" Wright?

The difference is that the liberal side has the intellectual elite, and our retarded rank-and-file is responsive to condescension and correction. The weak-minded are always susceptible to being emotionally shifted with spurious reasoning, but the Left has a mechanism to counter it whenever that mass starts to get really stupid. (We can break out the professors for a horrendously long and boring lecture that completely fleshes out the subject at hand, giving all the lost lambs the knowledge base required for them to get themselves up to speed.) The Right has no such mechanism -- the dumber the Conservative, the more certain he is that he has all the answers, and, "ain't nobody gonna make me change my mind." The entire side is nothing but emotion-based processing with no safeguards against confirmation bias, so the even ones smart enough not to be skewed to the far right have no basis to say they are categorically better than the ones who have gone full retard. Conservatism is a wash of subjectivity. "The Earth is 6000 years old and Jesus rode around on a dinosaur," is just as "correct" as any other belief in conservatism, and there's no consensus on truth-seeking methodology so no solid way to corral the lost sheep. All you can do is shoot out retarded propaganda and hope it strikes a chord.

 

[monovillage]

It's interesting you bring this up - I actually proposed, all the way back in 2004, more active moderation of this forum, as well as a gentlemen's agreement among members, in both cases to try to eliminate the personal attacks and focus on substantive discussion. The kernel of the idea came from a conservative member, shinerburke. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1333796

Many members on both sides of the political aisle joined me in my request. In those days the moderation was much less transparent - the moderators were anonymous - but there was also a more active anti-profanity policy - most profanity was blocked. The moderators indicated they didn't want to take the active role that we proposed and it went nowhere.

From my perspective (and this is obviously a personal choice), personal attacks between members are much more disruptive than profanity and/or derogatory comments about public figures like Ann Coulter who will never read the remarks. Certainly reasonable minds can differ on that, however.

Even people that disagree can find positive matters they agree on. Sometimes I wish we could find areas of common agreement and then work outwards from there. I think people would get more accomplished then always focusing on the areas of dispute.
I'm sometimes as guilty as the next poster for poking sore spots.

 

[dank69]

Says the person who's been here less than a month. Maybe the mods will give you an honor badge to pin to your Boy Scout uniform!

Less than a month and 1k+ posts. It's the neckbeard of P&N.