Android Police: Let Android be Android

[GaryJohnson]

You can't embrace an open OS for its openness, while shunning its openness at the same time.

We're not shunning it for it's openness, we're shunning the manufacturers and carriers for their crappy unremovable bloatware and artificial feature limitations.

 

[Deeko]

We're not shunning it for it's openness, we're shunning the manufacturers and carriers for their crappy unremovable bloatware and artificial feature limitations.

What features do Sense or TouchWiz limit?

 

[Brian Stirling]

While I might prefer stock Android - saying these things should be stopped wholely goes against the spirit of Android. Its an open system. Geeks don't get to have their open-source cake and eat it too. If you want a consistent ecosystem, get an iPhone. If you want an open platform that let's manufacuters, carriers, and end users customize it to their hearts desire, go Android.

That's fine but the openness should go both ways. That is, the user should have the right to chose which search engine they use -- right? Verizon is doing this because M$ is paying them to do it, or, perhaps, paying them more to do it.

So, if Verizon wishes to make Bing the default search engine then that's fine so long as I can change the search to whomever I want without rooting. That would be the open way, but locking it down to just bing is NOT open. And, I would recommend that anyone that's pissed with Verizon for doing this can boycot both Verizon and M$ by not buying anything from them. If they LOSE money with this stunt then perhaps they'll think the better of it in the future.


Brian

 

[AstroManLuca]

What features do Sense or TouchWiz limit?

Very little. You can always use the stock launcher (or a third-party one). I use Launcher Pro on my Epic (shipped with TouchWiz).

The only annoyance I've had with TouchWiz is that they also replaced the calendar and some other system apps with Samsung ones. They're mostly the same but one really stupid thing is the Samsung calendar app has a locally-stored calendar called "My Calendar" that can't be removed. My Calendar is not synced with anything so it's basically worthless. But you can work around it.

 

[MrX8503]

An open system is no longer open if verizon puts a padlock on it. Just because google is making it open, it's doors is being shut again by the carrier.

This is not suprising as Big Red is notorious for these kinds of stunts. Anyone still remember the ugly verizon red ui on all of their feature phones? The second phase of that nightmare is being transported in a Trojan horse we all know called Android. Slowly verizon will want more and more control of Android.

 

[AMDZen]

An open system is no longer open if verizon puts a padlock on it. Just because google is making it open, it's doors is being shut again by the carrier.

This is not suprising as Big Red is notorious for these kinds of stunts. Anyone still remember the ugly verizon red ui on all of their feature phones? The second phase of that nightmare is being transported in a Trojan horse we all know called Android. Slowly verizon will want more and more control of Android.

Which is precisely why Verizon didn't get the iPhone originally, Verizon wanted all the power and (obviously) Apple wanted all the power so Apple went to AT&T who allowed them all the power.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

An open system is no longer open if verizon puts a padlock on it. Just because google is making it open, it's doors is being shut again by the carrier.

This is not suprising as Big Red is notorious for these kinds of stunts. Anyone still remember the ugly verizon red ui on all of their feature phones? The second phase of that nightmare is being transported in a Trojan horse we all know called Android. Slowly verizon will want more and more control of Android.

Blame Moto. Stop blaming the carrier. We Milestone users have been dealing with a locked bootloader for months. It's how they want to make their products now.

 

[MrX8503]

Blame Moto. Stop blaming the carrier. We Milestone users have been dealing with a locked bootloader for months. It's how they want to make their products now.

I think both phone manufacturers and carriers want their cut of Android. Its like vultures pecking at a free carcass, everyone wants a piece.

I think the problem is that carriers/phone companies want to make money or differentiate themselves. Google should make a second attempt and release a Nexus1 successor.

 

[Deeko]

I think both phone manufacturers and carriers want their cut of Android. Its like vultures pecking at a free carcass, everyone wants a piece.

I think the problem is that carriers/phone companies want to make money or differentiate themselves. Google should make a second attempt and release a Nexus1 successor.

If people were so desparate for what everyone in this thread is asking for, the Nexus One would have been a much bigger success. These things really aren't as big a deal as the average ATOTer wants to make it.

 

[Bateluer]

If people were so desparate for what everyone in this thread is asking for, the Nexus One would have been a much bigger success. These things really aren't as big a deal as the average ATOTer wants to make it.

Two things that would have made the N1 a bigger success? First, let people go hands on with the phone at a B&M store, whether that be a carrier store, a Best Buy, or some other electronics store. Second, a simultaneous launch on all carriers. Not sure how feasible that is, I know the phone manufacturer can easily make the phone with a radio that supports all the carrier frequencies and technologies, for what thats worth.

If carriers continue to subvert Google's vision for Android, I can easily see them releasing a Nexus 2.

 

[Brian Stirling]

If people were so desparate for what everyone in this thread is asking for, the Nexus One would have been a much bigger success. These things really aren't as big a deal as the average ATOTer wants to make it.

What is it that we're desperate for? If it is "openness" then Verizon and M$ are not providing that by locking down search to Bing! Are you saying that locking down things like search "aren't as big a deal as the average AOTOer wants to make of it?"

What if Google decided that from this point on Android would be tied directly to Google search and that's that? So, Verizon could sell Android phones so long as they kept Android at Froyo or lower. Sure, Verizon could sneak a work around (not to be confused with a reach around) but Google could make that difficult and sneak in a performance hit. I'm NOT suggesting Google should do this, quite the contrary, but it would be no less open than Verizon and M$!


Brian

 

[Deeko]

What is it that we're desperate for? If it is "openness" then Verizon and M$ are not providing that by locking down search to Bing! Are you saying that locking down things like search "aren't as big a deal as the average AOTOer wants to make of it?"

What if Google decided that from this point on Android would be tied directly to Google search and that's that? So, Verizon could sell Android phones so long as they kept Android at Froyo or lower. Sure, Verizon could sneak a work around (not to be confused with a reach around) but Google could make that difficult and sneak in a performance hit. I'm NOT suggesting Google should do this, quite the contrary, but it would be no less open than Verizon and M$!


Brian

I think the average consumer is a lot less aware of a locked down bootloader, the advantages between stock vs touchwiz, or any of that. They might notice that Bing search is included on the Fascinate, or that Sprint NFL is included on the Epic, but I don't think they're going to lose any sleep over something like that.

The average consumer wants a phone that's attractive, easy to use, and has the apps/capabilities they're interested in. The things us ATOTers look for are either unknown or an afterthought to them.

If Google doesn't want a phone like the Fascinate to ship, they have a very easy way to stop it dead...deny it access to the Android Market. They've done it before, and I'm sure they'll do it again. Its their method of controlling the system while leaving Android "open".

Two things that would have made the N1 a bigger success? First, let people go hands on with the phone at a B&M store, whether that be a carrier store, a Best Buy, or some other electronics store. Second, a simultaneous launch on all carriers. Not sure how feasible that is, I know the phone manufacturer can easily make the phone with a radio that supports all the carrier frequencies and technologies, for what thats worth.

If carriers continue to subvert Google's vision for Android, I can easily see them releasing a Nexus 2.

You're correct, I didn't mean to imply that was the only reason the Nexus One didn't sell well. Also, I'm pretty sure we'll see another Google-designed phone, not directly sold by Google. They'll make it anyway - they like having a current dev phone available for sale - so why not sell it to the public?

 

[QueBert]

nerds will be outraged "OMG NO GOOGLES!!?! I gotta use Bing on this phone WTF!"

Where as my step mom would go "Great I found the info I needed using my phone, now I can go about my day" Even if I told her she still would go "and? when I need to find something I still can"

 

[Bateluer]

nerds will be outraged "OMG NO GOOGLES!!?! I gotta use Bing on this phone WTF!"

Where as my step mom would go "Great I found the info I needed using my phone, now I can go about my day" Even if I told her she still would go "and? when I need to find something I still can"

From your post, its obvious you've never actually used Bing. Unless its changed in the past week, it still doesn't find things as well or as fast as Google Search does.

Regardless, individuals who read up on products before buying them will likely note that every review of the Fascinate knocks it for forcing Bing.

But, in general, you are right. Far too many consumers will simply take what they're given, without even knowing that there's something better out there.

 

[olds]

I don't get it - is it that big a deal to have those two icons in the app drawer? Also, rooting is pretty easy these days. Just get it over with.

I'm rooted and run Fresh, which has those apps removed by default, but I'm not entirely sure I'd care enough to do it on my own.

Protip: Titanium Backup can uninstall pretty much anything once you're fully rooted (NAND unlocked). I did use that to uninstall Facebook, Peep, and FriendStream - along w/ their associated widgets. I killed them because they seemed to have services that kept restarting.

Those were just examples. As another example, I am not a homosexual so I want the social network stuff off there too.

 

[MrX8503]

If people were so desparate for what everyone in this thread is asking for, the Nexus One would have been a much bigger success. These things really aren't as big a deal as the average ATOTer wants to make it.

False.

It failed because it was hard to buy or get hands on experience with. I gurantee it'll do well if it was in a verizon store next to all of the other android phones. That and being able to get it on contract.

 

[Bateluer]

False.

It failed because it was hard to buy or get hands on experience with. I gurantee it'll do well if it was in a verizon store next to all of the other android phones. That and being able to get it on contract.

I believe you were able to get the N1 on contract, at least, with T Mobile. Putting the N1 into any B&M store would solve the problem though, doesn't have to be a Verizon store.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I think the average consumer is a lot less aware of a locked down bootloader, the advantages between stock vs touchwiz, or any of that. They might notice that Bing search is included on the Fascinate, or that Sprint NFL is included on the Epic, but I don't think they're going to lose any sleep over something like that.

The average consumer wants a phone that's attractive, easy to use, and has the apps/capabilities they're interested in. The things us ATOTers look for are either unknown or an afterthought to them.

If Google doesn't want a phone like the Fascinate to ship, they have a very easy way to stop it dead...deny it access to the Android Market. They've done it before, and I'm sure they'll do it again. Its their method of controlling the system while leaving Android "open".

The average phone user is not particularly aware of a lot that goes on behind "closed" doors. They wouldn't know that the iPhone is less open or even know what a bootloader is. I don't know that that changes the basic question of whether it's fare to claim openness on one end of the equation (right to incorporate a different search engine) but deny it at the other by allowing the user to chose another search engine.

Once again, I have no problem with Verizon setting up the phone with Bing so long as I, the user, can undo that and use another search provider. We have similar issues with PC's in that the PC makers make money by preinstalling certain software with the difference being that you can delete most of that crap and chose whatever crap you want. Sooner or later the justice department is going to look at the carriers the way they have M$ and, a generation earlier, ATT.


Brian

 

[Bateluer]

Sooner or later the justice department is going to look at the carriers the way they have M$ and, a generation earlier, ATT.


Brian

This would be the good type of government intervention in private industry, IMO. Needs to happen ASAP.

Also, does anyone else find it ironic or humorous that so many discussions on the practices of carriers come back to 'the average consumer is an idiot.'?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Those were just examples. As another example, I am not a homosexual so I want the social network stuff off there too.

Olds, you sure have some purdy legs, can you add me to your friends list?

 

[Deeko]

False.

It failed because it was hard to buy or get hands on experience with. I gurantee it'll do well if it was in a verizon store next to all of the other android phones. That and being able to get it on contract.

You're correct, I didn't mean to imply that was the only reason the Nexus One didn't sell well. Also, I'm pretty sure we'll see another Google-designed phone, not directly sold by Google. They'll make it anyway - they like having a current dev phone available for sale - so why not sell it to the public?

Read harder, kid.

And maybe even try applying a little analytical thinking.

 

[MrX8503]

Read harder, kid.

And maybe even try applying a little analytical thinking.

So you conceded your statement but I need more analytical thinking? Ok.

 

[YoungGun21]

They are making a Nexus 2. I doubt it will be called the Nexus 2. I'm not currently sure who they are collaborating with. I'd imagine Q1 of 2011.

 

[Raduque]

I agree that the carriers need to stop sticking their dirty fingers into Android, specifically you Verizon.

But.

You can't blame them for Sense, MOTOBLUR or TouchWiz (or that ugly-ass panels thing SE is doing). Those fall squarely on the manufacturer, same with locked bootloaders, et al. In all honestly, aside from MOTOBLUR, the manufacturer customizations add to Android. It makes it nice to look at and adds all sorts of features (my MT3G on stock 1.6 had no way to sync my Facebook contacts without extra apps, my Vibrant can do it out of the box) that regular people (IE: None of us in this thread) want, and that is what sells phones. And, at the end of the day, selling phones is all that matters.

I'm pretty sure Google could've laid down all sorts of restrictions on Android, and maybe they should've, but it's too late now.

Oh yes, and the Nexus One failed because it was more of the same old garbage that current carrier pricing is. Nexus Two (if it's even being made, which I doubt) will fail for the same reason.

 

[sourceninja]

I would have bought a N1 if I was able to get my hands on it. When I finally found someone who had one, and decided I liked it, google stopped selling it.

What I want is a phone that lets me control my experience. This means no uninstallable applications, no widgets I'll never use, no funky UI elements I can't turn off. It should be easily rooted (or better yet, come with a tool to root it), top of the line hardware, and designed for developers. I'll pay 500-700 for it.

Otherwise, as much as I hate it, I'm using my iphone.