Android Police: Let Android be Android

[Doboji]

While I might prefer stock Android - saying these things should be stopped wholely goes against the spirit of Android. Its an open system. Geeks don't get to have their open-source cake and eat it too. If you want a consistent ecosystem, get an iPhone. If you want an open platform that let's manufacuters, carriers, and end users customize it to their hearts desire, go Android.

+1

 

[olds]

Olds, you sure have some purdy legs, can you add me to your friends list?

And they end right at a perfect ass...

 

[Bateluer]

What I want is a phone that lets me control my experience. This means no uninstallable applications, no widgets I'll never use, no funky UI elements I can't turn off. It should be easily rooted (or better yet, come with a tool to root it), top of the line hardware, and designed for developers. I'll pay 500-700 for it.

Otherwise, as much as I hate it, I'm using my iphone.

I agree with your first paragraph whole heartedly, except I may waiver a little bit on the 'designed for developers' comment.

But, on your second paragraph, because you cannot have the open system and freedom you desire, you choose to use the exact polar opposite of what you want? Isn't that like saying you're fed up with how the current US Govt restricts your freedoms, do you're going to move to North Korea?

 

[JD50]

nerds will be outraged "OMG NO GOOGLES!!?! I gotta use Bing on this phone WTF!"

Where as my step mom would go "Great I found the info I needed using my phone, now I can go about my day" Even if I told her she still would go "and? when I need to find something I still can"

Actually it's the opposite. The less techy people will have more of a problem with Bing as the default because they either can't figure out how to change it or don't want to take the time to figure it out. My wife noticed it right away and it was a show stopper, like most other people she likes everything being integrated the way google does it. She returned her fascinate and got an incredible.

Non technical people will definitely notice Bing as the default instead of Google.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

What I want is a phone that lets me control my experience. This means no uninstallable applications, no widgets I'll never use, no funky UI elements I can't turn off. It should be easily rooted (or better yet, come with a tool to root it), top of the line hardware, and designed for developers. I'll pay 500-700 for it..

You basically described the Nokia N900. It doesn't have a tool for rooting it but Nokia does have instruction on how to do it up on their site.

 

[QueBert]

Actually it's the opposite. The less techy people will have more of a problem with Bing as the default because they either can't figure out how to change it or don't want to take the time to figure it out. My wife noticed it right away and it was a show stopper, like most other people she likes everything being integrated the way google does it. She returned her fascinate and got an incredible.

Non technical people will definitely notice Bing as the default instead of Google.

Huh? Non technical people won't even know the phone was supposed to have Google as the default search unless they've used another android. I fix computers for a living close to half the people I do work for will tell you they use "Internet Explorer" if you asked them what search engine they use. If they use Google it's because it's been set as their home page. A person who's never used a Google Android device and picks the one with Bing up will just assume that's how it works. I'd bet the same you said could be said for a non techie person who has only used the Android device with bing on it. If they got their hands on my Droid they'd go "WTF is this? why isn't it working like I'm use to?" and want their phone back. Does the one with Google integrated work better? Yep, but the other works too, and if it's what a persons used you probably won't hear them complaining.

 

[Deeko]

So you conceded your statement but I need more analytical thinking? Ok.

No, I didn't concede anything. The point was that I never said or implied that that was why the Nexus One didn't sell well. Conversely, what I meant was that if the Nexus One were truly what the consumer wanted, it would have done better than it did. It was a good phone that was offered through a poor sales model - if it were truly the best and brightest and everything the Android consumer wanted, it would have transcended that sales model (to a point).

If the iPhone had only been sold through Apple.com, I bet it still would have sold well.

 

[Doboji]

I would have bought a N1 if I was able to get my hands on it. When I finally found someone who had one, and decided I liked it, google stopped selling it.

What I want is a phone that lets me control my experience. This means no uninstallable applications, no widgets I'll never use, no funky UI elements I can't turn off. It should be easily rooted (or better yet, come with a tool to root it), top of the line hardware, and designed for developers. I'll pay 500-700 for it.

Otherwise, as much as I hate it, I'm using my iphone.

They are still selling Nexus Ones to registered developers...

 

[Bateluer]

Huh? Non technical people won't even know the phone was supposed to have Google as the default search unless they've used another android. I fix computers for a living close to half the people I do work for will tell you they use "Internet Explorer" if you asked them what search engine they use. If they use Google it's because it's been set as their home page. A person who's never used a Google Android device and picks the one with Bing up will just assume that's how it works. I'd bet the same you said could be said for a non techie person who has only used the Android device with bing on it. If they got their hands on my Droid they'd go "WTF is this? why isn't it working like I'm use to?" and want their phone back. Does the one with Google integrated work better? Yep, but the other works too, and if it's what a persons used you probably won't hear them complaining.

Consider this. Android is clearly going to be around for a while. The longer you stick with a smart phone OS, the more you become 'tied' to it, because all your stuff/life is there. Its easy to migrate from Android device to another and from one iPhone to another, etc. I can easily see a non techy person shopping for a new Android phone, and noting the Bing search, and passing the phone over in favor of another device.

 

[JD50]

Huh? Non technical people won't even know the phone was supposed to have Google as the default search unless they've used another android. I fix computers for a living close to half the people I do work for will tell you they use "Internet Explorer" if you asked them what search engine they use. If they use Google it's because it's been set as their home page. A person who's never used a Google Android device and picks the one with Bing up will just assume that's how it works. I'd bet the same you said could be said for a non techie person who has only used the Android device with bing on it. If they got their hands on my Droid they'd go "WTF is this? why isn't it working like I'm use to?" and want their phone back. Does the one with Google integrated work better? Yep, but the other works too, and if it's what a persons used you probably won't hear them complaining.

People that use google for everything, and decide to buy a "google phone", will notice when google is not the default search engine. I'm not talking about the 90 year old grandma that doesn't know the difference between internet explorer and a search engine. I'm talking about the people in the middle, that are somewhat familiar with technology and at least know what a search engine is.

 

[JD50]

No, I didn't concede anything. The point was that I never said or implied that that was why the Nexus One didn't sell well. Conversely, what I meant was that if the Nexus One were truly what the consumer wanted, it would have done better than it did. It was a good phone that was offered through a poor sales model - if it were truly the best and brightest and everything the Android consumer wanted, it would have transcended that sales model (to a point).

If the iPhone had only been sold through Apple.com, I bet it still would have sold well.

That's completely untrue. The Nexus One could've been exactly what the consumer wanted, but if no one can put their hands on it and it's much more expensive than their willing to pay, then no one is gonna buy it. Which is exactly what happened.

The phone was more than double the price of any other smartphone and there was no where to go look at it and play with it. The perfect phone will not transcend that sales model, especially when it's the first of it's kind.

 

[sourceninja]

I agree with your first paragraph whole heartedly, except I may waiver a little bit on the 'designed for developers' comment.

But, on your second paragraph, because you cannot have the open system and freedom you desire, you choose to use the exact polar opposite of what you want? Isn't that like saying you're fed up with how the current US Govt restricts your freedoms, do you're going to move to North Korea?

Actually, I see it as this.

1) I had an iphone before android existed.
2) I have money and time invested in iphone apps and development.
3) Without what I have described above, there is no advantage to switching to android.

So staying with what I have is better then spending money to get what I already have. I already have a iphone that does all that crap. Why switch to android to have to jump though the same hoops to get the same crap?

I however did not know android developers can buy the N1. It is something to consider, however I was looking for new technology, not last years technology. I wouldn't replace my iphone 3GS with another 3GS....

 

[JD50]

Consider this. Android is clearly going to be around for a while. The longer you stick with a smart phone OS, the more you become 'tied' to it, because all your stuff/life is there. Its easy to migrate from Android device to another and from one iPhone to another, etc. I can easily see a non techy person shopping for a new Android phone, and noting the Bing search, and passing the phone over in favor of another device.

Yep. Also, non techy people aren't as ignorant about technology as they were just a few years ago, most people know what a search engine is.

 

[Deeko]

That's completely untrue. The Nexus One could've been exactly what the consumer wanted, but if no one can put their hands on it and it's much more expensive than their willing to pay, then no one is gonna buy it. Which is exactly what happened.

The phone was more than double the price of any other smartphone and there was no where to go look at it and play with it. The perfect phone will not transcend that sales model, especially when it's the first of it's kind.

As I've said, it still would be hampered by the sales process, but if it were that much of an ideal phone, it would have done better than it did. See my iPhone example. No, it would not have done as well as it has if it were only sold on Apple.com, but it definitely would still have sold. I'm not sure what you're talking about with price. The Nexus One was $529 without contract, which is par for the course, if not a little cheaper (many went for $599 unsubsidized). It was $179 with a two year T-Mobile contract, which is actually less than any top-end smartphone starts at.

Also - first of its kind? Are you referring to my iPhone analogy, or talking about the Nexus One? Its not like it was the first Android phone. By the time the Nexus One was released, there was already the G1, MyTouch 3G, Cliq, Hero, Moment, Droid, and Droid Eris.

The Nexus One was absolutely a complete failure from a marketing perspective, there's no denying that. It was heavily marketed by Google Ads...and the fact that the average person still hasn't heard of it should go to show that clearly that's not all that effective. A lot of people wanted to go buy an iPhone, or a Droid, before they ever saw one in person. Perhaps if Google had been less cocky about their own ad platform and mounted a TV campaign for the Nexus One it would have done better too. There are a lot of reasons why the Nexus One failed.

One last point about the Nexus One issue - its amusing that you call my claim "completely untrue". You might be able to make such an absolute statement if I'd said the N1 would have sold 10x better, but all I said was that it would be better. A 20% improvement in sales likely wouldn't have kept the phone alive much longer than it did, but it still would be a noticeable improvement. And yes, sales platform aside, if the Nexus One had truly been the perfect, ideal phone for the average consumer, I stand by my standpoint that it would have sold better. That doesn't mean I think it would sell better than the iPhone.

However, the fact remains that the average consumer is decidedly not clamoring for vanilla Android over Sense/TouchWiz/etc. And while most people would notice that Google has been replaced by Bing, they wouldn't be that offended by it. You also have to remember that most non-tech people know of Android as Droid, from the Verizon ad campaigns. They might know Google is behind it, they might not, but they want the "Droid phone", not the "Google phone", so opening the search bar and finding Bing isn’t exactly an arrow through their heart.

Nerd rage over Android customizations is just that...nerd rage. It upsets people like us, but the majority of the average consumers don't care all that much.

 

[Deeko]

Yep. Also, non techy people aren't as ignorant about technology as they were just a few years ago, most people know what a search engine is.

Of course they know what it is, that doesn't mean they're going to care that much if the search bar on Android takes them to Bing instead of Google. Its not like they can't just open the browser and go to Google, or set Google as their home page.

 

[MrX8503]

As I've said, it still would be hampered by the sales process, but if it were that much of an ideal phone, it would have done better than it did. See my iPhone example. No, it would not have done as well as it has if it were only sold on Apple.com, but it definitely would still have sold. I'm not sure what you're talking about with price. The Nexus One was $529 without contract, which is par for the course, if not a little cheaper (many went for $599 unsubsidized). It was $179 with a two year T-Mobile contract, which is actually less than any top-end smartphone starts at.

Also - first of its kind? Are you referring to my iPhone analogy, or talking about the Nexus One? Its not like it was the first Android phone. By the time the Nexus One was released, there was already the G1, MyTouch 3G, Cliq, Hero, Moment, Droid, and Droid Eris.

The Nexus One was absolutely a complete failure from a marketing perspective, there's no denying that. It was heavily marketed by Google Ads...and the fact that the average person still hasn't heard of it should go to show that clearly that's not all that effective. A lot of people wanted to go buy an iPhone, or a Droid, before they ever saw one in person. Perhaps if Google had been less cocky about their own ad platform and mounted a TV campaign for the Nexus One it would have done better too. There are a lot of reasons why the Nexus One failed.

One last point about the Nexus One issue - its amusing that you call my claim "completely untrue". You might be able to make such an absolute statement if I'd said the N1 would have sold 10x better, but all I said was that it would be better. A 20% improvement in sales likely wouldn't have kept the phone alive much longer than it did, but it still would be a noticeable improvement. And yes, sales platform aside, if the Nexus One had truly been the perfect, ideal phone for the average consumer, I stand by my standpoint that it would have sold better. That doesn't mean I think it would sell better than the iPhone.

However, the fact remains that the average consumer is decidedly not clamoring for vanilla Android over Sense/TouchWiz/etc. And while most people would notice that Google has been replaced by Bing, they wouldn't be that offended by it. You also have to remember that most non-tech people know of Android as Droid, from the Verizon ad campaigns. They might know Google is behind it, they might not, but they want the "Droid phone", not the "Google phone", so opening the search bar and finding Bing isn’t exactly an arrow through their heart.

Nerd rage over Android customizations is just that...nerd rage. It upsets people like us, but the majority of the average consumers don't care all that much.

1. A Nexus 1 is not an iPhone. An iPhone would of course sell better even if it was only available on Apple.com and no where else. A Nexus 1 does not have that kind of leverage.

2. People bought the iPhone and Droid not only because of marketing, but because it was available in stores as well. You can't claim one thing happened and not the other.

3. The Motorola Droid runs Vanilla Android and from what I can remember its the highest selling Android phone. If there was a real powerhouse 4.3" Vanilla Android phone, I think it would sell very well too.

The fact of the matter is that the Nexus 1 didn't sell well because it wasn't marketed correctly and was further compounded by it not being available in stores.

 

[Deeko]

1. A Nexus 1 is not an iPhone. An iPhone would of course sell better even if it was only available on Apple.com and no where else. A Nexus 1 does not have that kind of leverage.

2. People bought the iPhone and Droid not only because of marketing, but because it was available in stores as well. You can't claim one thing happened and not the other.

3. The Motorola Droid runs Vanilla Android and from what I can remember its the highest selling Android phone. If there was a real powerhouse 4.3" Vanilla Android phone, I think it would sell very well too.

The fact of the matter is that the Nexus 1 didn't sell well because it wasn't marketed correctly and was further compounded by it not being available in stores.

1) I know, I know, you love the iPhone. However, thank you for making my point for me. Good work. If the Nexus One were truly "the" phone, it would have sold better, despite the poor sales/marketing model.

2) I never did make this claim, don't put words into my mouth. Seems to be a common debate tactic for you.

3) As far as I know, the Droid and N1 were the last vanilla Android phones. The Incredible, Evo, and Droid X have all been seling extremely well since then, despite not running stock. They haven't been on the market nearly as long as the original Droid, so it would be absurd to compare total sales.

The Droid did not sell so well because it was stock Android. In fact, until Sense devices didn't get Eclair and Froyo as fast as the Nexus One, most people, tech people included, were kicking and screaming that they wanted Sense over stock.

 

[MrX8503]

1) I know, I know, you love the iPhone. However, thank you for making my point for me. Good work. If the Nexus One were truly "the" phone, it would have sold better, despite the poor sales/marketing model.

2) I never did make this claim, don't put words into my mouth. Seems to be a common debate tactic for you.

3) As far as I know, the Droid and N1 were the last vanilla Android phones. The Incredible, Evo, and Droid X have all been seling extremely well since then, despite not running stock. They haven't been on the market nearly as long as the original Droid, so it would be absurd to compare total sales.

The Droid did not sell so well because it was stock Android. In fact, until Sense devices didn't get Eclair and Froyo as fast as the Nexus One, most people, tech people included, were kicking and screaming that they wanted Sense over stock.

1. This doesn't even make sense. Everyone knows what an iPhone is and it has been out for a while. The Nexus 1 is new, there weren't any Nexus 1's before it. You can't say, "Well if the iPhone can sell well under a virtual store, the Nexus 1 can too!"

2. Then what did you mean by this quote?

A lot of people wanted to go buy an iPhone, or a Droid, before they ever saw one in person.

What you say/imply/meant/misunderstood seems to be a common tactic for you. My point is a lot of people did want to buy an iPhone/Droid before they saw it, but you're also forgetting the fact that they were also available in stores. I don't understand how you can correlate those devices to the Nexus1.

3. Regardless, Vanilla Android still sold well. It no longer exists because carriers are locking the devices down. There are people on both fences, those wanting touchwiz/sense/etc and those wanting vanilla.

The Nexus 1 didn't sell well because of it only being sold through Google online, aka poor marketing and sales model. It has nothing to do with it having Vanilla Android or a low demand of Vanilla Android. Like you said, if avg consumers can't tell the difference between UI's, then Vanilla Android becomes less of a factor in sales.

 

[Deeko]

1. This doesn't even make sense. Everyone knows what an iPhone is and it has been out for a while. The Nexus 1 is new, there weren't any Nexus 1's before it. You can't say, "Well if the iPhone can sell well under a virtual store, the Nexus 1 can too!"

It seems you're incapable of hypothesising. I didn't say the iPhone 4, I said the iPhone. If Apple had released the original iPhone on their website alone, it still would have sold. As many? Maybe not. But it still would have sold.

2. Then what did you mean by this quote?


What you say/imply/meant/misunderstood seems to be a common tactic for you. My point is a lot of people did want to buy an iPhone/Droid before they saw it, but you're also forgetting the fact that they were also available in stores. I don't understand how you can correlate those devices to the Nexus1.

Its not a black and white world. This isn't hard to grasp. There are a lot of factors why one phone sells, and another doesn't. I chose the Nexus One as an example on purpose because it was in a disadvantageous position. I'm not saying the Nexus One is worse because its vanilla Android. I said the average consumer doesn't care, and that if they did, if it were really a big deal to them, the Nexus One would have done better than it did. Very simple.

3. Regardless, Vanilla Android still sold well.

It sure did. Find where I said it didn't. I said, and have been saying, that in general the consumer isn't really concerned about these customizations.

It no longer exists because carriers are locking the devices down. There are people on both fences, those wanting touchwiz/sense/etc and those wanting vanilla.

Stock Android doesn't exist because of carriers? That's just not true. The Fascinate uses Bing instead of Google because of Verizon, yes. However, Verizon has nothing to do with Touchiz, Sense, or Blur. That's a manufacturer decision thing through and through.

The Nexus 1 didn't sell well because of it only being sold through Google online, aka poor marketing and sales model. It has nothing to do with it having Vanilla Android or a low demand of Vanilla Android. Like you said, if avg consumers can't tell the difference between UI's, then Vanilla Android becomes less of a factor in sales.

The Nexus One didn't sell well for a lot of reasons. I never said or implied that it having stock Android was one of them. Conversely, I will repeat, my point was quite clearly that its not a factor. Get it this time? I'm saying the UI skin is not a big factor to the average consumer.

 

[MrX8503]

If people were so desparate for what everyone in this thread is asking for, the Nexus One would have been a much bigger success. These things really aren't as big a deal as the average ATOTer wants to make it.

Conversely, what I meant was that if the Nexus One were truly what the consumer wanted, it would have done better than it did.

As I've said, it still would be hampered by the sales process, but if it were that much of an ideal phone, it would have done better than it did.

And yes, sales platform aside, if the Nexus One had truly been the perfect, ideal phone for the average consumer, I stand by my standpoint that it would have sold better.

However, the fact remains that the average consumer is decidedly not clamoring for vanilla Android over Sense/TouchWiz/etc.

I chose the Nexus One as an example on purpose because it was in a disadvantageous position. I'm not saying the Nexus One is worse because its vanilla Android.

The Nexus One didn't sell well for a lot of reasons. I never said or implied that it having stock Android was one of them.

From the beginning I said a successor to the Nexus 1 would be ideal because there wouldn't be carrier/phone manufacturer lock down, ala Vanilla. Then you go on to say the Nexus1 would of sold if people wanted it. Wanted what? What do you mean by this? Wanting Vanilla/Hardware/Both? Because I was talking about Vanilla.

You're main argument is that if people wanted it, it would of overcame its shortcomings or sold. There isn't another phone that was in the Nexus 1's position, so I don't know how you can make that kind of assumption.

The main factor of the Nexus 1's demise is its availability to the consumer. It has nothing to do with people wanting/not wanting Vanilla or the device as a whole. Nexus 1 would of done just as well as the other Droid phones if available in stores.

There are other posters in this thread who have also been confused by your posts. Refuting you about the Nexus 1 sales. You make a post implying Vanilla, then another one not referring to Vanilla. Wishy Washy I might say.

 

[Deeko]

No. This thread is not about the Nexus One, that is just an example. This thread is about "letting Android be Android", its about how the consumer wants stock Android, the consumer is outraged at Bing search, etc. I'm refuting that. I'm saying the general consumer doesn't really know the difference between stock/Sense/Touchwiz. I'm saying that while the general consumer might understand that Bing != Google, and they might prefer Google, that they aren't likely to make that a deciding factor. I said many posts ago, the general consumer wants an attractive, easy to use, stable phone that does what they want it to do (features/apps). What UI skin the manufacturer puts on the phone is a footnote to them, even if its a huge issue to the tech community.

The entire Nexus One discussion is merely an example of that. It represents the epitome of stock Android straight from Google, and it still failed, for a number of reasons. People in the thread (such as yourself) keep trying to home in on one issue, and ignore the broader ones. You're trying to take my argument, put it in a cut-and-dry, black-and-white world, make assumptions about things I didn't say, etc. Unfortunately, those things are not the case.

This is just going in circles and is largely a waste of time. You can sum up my argument as "its really not a big deal to the average consumer."

 

[coolVariable]

From engadget:

Firmware, forums, and desperation -- the dark side of Android hacking
By Nilay Patel posted Sep 23rd 2010 3:51PM
Editorial

That picture above is no joke -- that's where I ended up last night trying to revive my Droid X review unit. It was fun, in a hacky mad-scientist sort of way, but it's also really sad -- a testament to how Google approves Android device hacking with a wink and a nod, but doesn't provide any safety nets for its most passionate users.

Let's back up, though. How did I end up in such dire straits? It started when I had the nerve to update this Droid X to the leaked Android 2.2 build -- a simple process that involved installing the file on a microSD card and restarting. Unfortunately, since Motorola refuses to provide a sanctioned upgrade path from the leaked build to the official 2.2 build released earlier this week, I was forced to downgrade back to 2.1 to get back on track. Based on how easy the update was, this would be a piece of cake, right?

Well, no. The original 2.1 build for the Droid X isn't actually available from Google, Motorola, or Verizon, so I was stuck wiping my phone and reflashing it entirely to a leaked build of 2.1, this time with the confidence-inspiring name of the "the_gift.sbf." Where did it come from, and what does it actually contain? I still have no idea -- but lacking any officially-approved options, I held my breath and restarted the phone in bootloader mode to begin the flashing process. Things seemed to be humming along, until, of course, the phone decided it had a dead battery in the middle of the flash and died. Oops.

Yes, the two hours it took me to sort out the hacked flashing software had been too much for my poor Droid X's previously-full battery, and even though it was plugged in the whole time, it doesn't charge when it's in bootloader mode. I'd gone and bricked my phone. At this point there was nothing to do but take a picture and laugh -- things had gotten wildly out of hand.

That's when I hit upon another forum post describing a way to trick the phone into thinking the battery was charged by splicing the power leads from a USB cable to the power terminals. It was late, I'd been drinking, I had a wire stripper handy... you all know what happened. Miraculously, it worked -- I got the phone to re-flash and boot into 2.1, although the flashing utility insisted that it had ultimately failed. (The battery also reported being 75 percent full, so I have no idea what the actual problem was.) Next thing you know, I was pulling the official 2.2. OTA update down, and hey -- we're back in business.

Like I said at the top, I actually had fun doing all of this. It was interesting and nerdy, and, well, come on -- I totally got to hotwire a phone battery with a sliced-open USB cable while reflashing it with leaked firmware. High five. And a double high five for the Android community, which is about as enthusiastic and creative a group of people as I've ever encountered online. But hold up: I don't trust this phone at all anymore. I don't know anything about the system software I've installed or where it came from, and I have no idea what the leaked flashing utility actually did to it. I can't rely on a device that I don't trust. If this was my actual phone and not a review unit, I'd be completely screwed -- I need this thing to do my job.

Of course, hacking any device carries its risks, and I definitely knew them when I installed that leaked build of 2.2. But Google goes on and on about how Android is "open," and the amazing Android community is a proud credit to how tinker-friendly the platform is at its best -- there's a cooked ROM for everything. We wait with bated breath for every Android phone to be rooted and hacked, and every time we review an Android phone and deduct points for a lame manufacturer skin we're repeatedly told by Android fans that it doesn't matter because "real" power users will just hack their devices anyway. Google has to know that its most passionate users are hacking its OS to hell and back -- it's become the defining strength of the platform.
Google can't keep implicitly condoning Android hacking unless it requires manufacturers to provide restore tools for every device.

But hacking can definitely go too far, and Google doesn't provide any way for you to return to the original Android experience that shipped with your device -- you're at the mercy of the manufacturer and the carrier. Some manufacturers are better than others -- HTC provides updaters for many of its phones -- but some, like Motorola and Samsung, provide nothing at all. Once I left the reservation and installed that leaked 2.2 build, I was gone for good -- no official path back to the fold exists. That's not true on other platforms: if I was running a jailbroken iPhone, I'd just restore it with iTunes, and it would be factory-fresh with known software. That's simply not the case with Android, and it's a problem -- Google can't keep implicitly condoning Android hacking and trading on the enthusiasm of its community unless it requires manufacturers to provide restore tools for every device. Sometimes you just want to go home again.

In my ideal world, consumers would be able to download official stock Android builds for their devices directly from Google, but I'm not ignorant of the carrier- and manufacturer-driven reality we live in. For better or worse, Android's only "open" until the carriers get their hands on it. But Google should insist that every Android manufacturer and carrier release images of their customized firmware for every deivce as well as tools for easy restoration. It's the only fair way to treat the people who are hacking the platform and giving it the amazing momentum it has, and the only fair way to continue promoting the platform as "open" when in reality the carriers and manufacturers are doing everything they can to lock it down.

 

[QueBert]

From engadget:

that was pretty funny, I guess I was spoiled by 1 click jailbreaking on my iPhone. My GF wanted me to root her D2 and I told her until they get Recovery on it SHIT NO. It's a fail boat waiting to happen trying to install an unofficial update on a device with a locked bootloader. It took me a few days to figure out when in bootloader mode it doesn't charge. I was like "my phone was plugged in and the battery went down 20% while I was installing 2.2 WTF!

 

[MrX8503]

No. This thread is not about the Nexus One, that is just an example. This thread is about "letting Android be Android", its about how the consumer wants stock Android, the consumer is outraged at Bing search, etc. I'm refuting that. I'm saying the general consumer doesn't really know the difference between stock/Sense/Touchwiz. I'm saying that while the general consumer might understand that Bing != Google, and they might prefer Google, that they aren't likely to make that a deciding factor. I said many posts ago, the general consumer wants an attractive, easy to use, stable phone that does what they want it to do (features/apps). What UI skin the manufacturer puts on the phone is a footnote to them, even if its a huge issue to the tech community.

The entire Nexus One discussion is merely an example of that. It represents the epitome of stock Android straight from Google, and it still failed, for a number of reasons. People in the thread (such as yourself) keep trying to home in on one issue, and ignore the broader ones. You're trying to take my argument, put it in a cut-and-dry, black-and-white world, make assumptions about things I didn't say, etc. Unfortunately, those things are not the case.

This is just going in circles and is largely a waste of time. You can sum up my argument as "its really not a big deal to the average consumer."

I know what this thread is about. I, along with others in this thread, was pointing out what you said about how the Nexus 1 failing is largely false. I'm not making assumptions of what you're saying as I'm quoting you directly. Obviously its not an assumption if others interpreted your posts the same way.

You went from "If people wanted it would of succeeded" to "consumers don't care about UI's".

You tried to push those arguments through as if they were the main reasons to the Nexus1's failure. I know what you were trying to imply, saying about how consumers don't really care about the UI is nothing but a scapegoat. Its true that an avg consumer doesn't really know the difference, but this doesn't have anything to do with the Nexus1's poor sales.

 

[Deeko]

I know what this thread is about. I, along with others in this thread, was pointing out what you said about how the Nexus 1 failing is largely false. I'm not making assumptions of what you're saying as I'm quoting you directly. Obviously its not an assumption if others interpreted your posts the same way.

You went from "If people wanted it would of succeeded" to "consumers don't care about UI's".

Uh huh...and you can't see the correlation between those two points? Remember the other day when I said you need to try some analytical thinking? I'm saying the consumers don't care - and therefore, if they did, it would make a difference in what they purchase. What a *shocking* flip flop that was.

You tried to push those arguments through as if they were the main reasons to the Nexus1's failure.

This is utterly untrue, in fact, its an outright lie. I never said or implied this. Do not put words in my mouth, MrX.

I know what you were trying to imply, saying about how consumers don't really care about the UI is nothing but a scapegoat. Its true that an avg consumer doesn't really know the difference, but this doesn't have anything to do with the Nexus1's poor sales.

*sigh* I don't know how many ways I have to reword this before it gets into your skull. I didn't say that the Nexus One sold poorly because it was stock UI. I never said anything remotely like that. I never implied it directly or indirectly. I said if they did care, it would sell better. Seriously, its not hard to separate those two concepts.