And we take a step back - measles return

[nehalem256]

None of those examples are good. In the case of drinking and driving it's already a crime and every other one involves individuals choosing to partake in risky behavior.

The problem with not vaccinating people isn't just that you put yourself at risk, it is that you put others at risk who never asked for it. That is why vaccination should be mandatory.

Only if they haven't been vaccinated.

Also, by the logic you just presented I assume you support sterilization for women with HIV, because they put their children at risk for contracting the virus right?

 

[Texashiker]

I believe in freedom and personal choice as well, it's just that sometimes the needs of society trump the freedom of an individual, to put it frankly, be fucking stupid.

Lets force parents who have obese children to buy healthy foods and get more exercise.

Its all about the health of the children right? Children today are developing adult diseases never before seen in young people.

Maybe the government needs to regulate sodium and fat intake of children? Kid weighs too much, put cameras in the house to see what is going on. Maybe put the parents on probation?

The problem with not vaccinating people isn't just that you put yourself at risk, it is that you put others at risk who never asked for it. That is why vaccination should be mandatory.

Drinking and driving does not pose a risk to others?

Second hand smoke does not pose a risk to others?

 

[PokerGuy]

I believe in freedom and personal choice as well, it's just that sometimes the needs of society trump the freedom of an individual

Ah yes, that collectivist mentality works so well. Forget individual rights, freedoms, choices and all that garbage, it's so much more efficient if we decide what's best for everyone and force everyone to do it Using your rationale, shouldn't we ban all sugary drinks? Ban all food that could potentially be unhealthy? Ban sex outside marriage? Force people to exercise 1 hour per day? Etc etc etc etc

 

[JimKiler]

I listened to an old episode of This American Life where measles had an outbreak in California and one of the infected was a infant boy and he had a 106 degree temp and it took two hours for the hospital to let him in since it is so contagious. He was too young for the vaccine. But the parents of all the school age children who contracted it felt justified against getting the vaccine because their kids did not die.

This is not stupid people who do not vaccine. It is intelligent people who get swept into the emotions of it and let fear run their lives.

Yes it is possible vaccines cause issues, but it is also possible to die from diseases so the benefits clearly outweigh the risks.

Except with Jenny McCarthy who now has a kid with no soul since she watched it leave her sons body. But I have heard she now controls and got rid of autism in her son with a specific diet.

 

[fskimospy]

Drinking and driving does not pose a risk to others?

Second hand smoke does not pose a risk to others?

Did you not read my post?

Drinking and driving is already illegal. Smoking indoors where secondhand smoke is an issue is already illegal in most states.

 

[Texashiker]

I listened to an old episode of This American Life where measles had an outbreak in California and one of the infected was a infant boy and he had a 106 degree temp and it took two hours for the hospital to let him in since it is so contagious. He was too young for the vaccine. But the parents of all the school age children who contracted it felt justified against getting the vaccine because their kids did not die.

Did any of the children in those examples die? Were they left disabled?

We have demonized getting sick, when it is nothing more than a natural process.

There is a reason why we have an immune system, there is a reason why we have childhood diseases, there is a reason why it is good for kids to eat dirt.

 

[fskimospy]

Only if they haven't been vaccinated.

Also, by the logic you just presented I assume you support sterilization for women with HIV, because they put their children at risk for contracting the virus right?

Can you tell me the story of how you met your Canadian girlfriend?

 

[PokerGuy]

The problem with not vaccinating people isn't just that you put yourself at risk, it is that you put others at risk who never asked for it. That is why vaccination should be mandatory.

If someone eats too much steak they might end up having a heart attack while driving and kill someone else in the process. Obviously steaks should be banned, and everyone should be forced to exercise two hours a day.

I'm for vaccination, and I think it's important to educate people on the benefits of vaccination as well as the very low risks associated with it..... but forcing people to take vaccinations crosses the line into authoritarianism.

 

[fskimospy]

If someone eats too much steak they might end up having a heart attack while driving and kill someone else in the process. Obviously steaks should be banned, and everyone should be forced to exercise two hours a day.

I'm for vaccination, and I think it's important to educate people on the benefits of vaccination as well as the very low risks associated with it..... but forcing people to take vaccinations crosses the line into authoritarianism.

That is a terrible argument. Heart attack while driving leading to an injury accident involving another person requires a chain of improbable events that cannot reasonably be foreseen. Getting a disease from not being vaccinated requires no such chain of events and is the entirely predictable outcome of choosing not to be vaccinated.

Forcing people to be vaccinated is perfectly fine. It is the price they pay to live in civilized society. You do not have a right to inflict infectious disease on others in the name of freedom.

 

[nehalem256]

Can you tell me the story of how you met your Canadian girlfriend?

So by your response I take it you have no problems with women risking inflicting HIV on their children?

Not sure why you are pro infecting babies with HIV. Clearly you cannot have any principles about it being wrong to force medical procedures on people judging by your pro-vaccination stance :hmm:

 

[nehalem256]

Forcing people to be vaccinated is perfectly fine. It is the price they pay to live in civilized society. You do not have a right to inflict infectious disease on others in the name of freedom.

Interesting.

So I assume you support sterilization for women with HIV right?

Since you do not have a right to inflict infectious disease on others in the name of freedom

 

[fskimospy]

Did any of the children in those examples die? Were they left disabled?

We have demonized getting sick, when it is nothing more than a natural process.

There is a reason why we have an immune system, there is a reason why we have childhood diseases, there is a reason why it is good for kids to eat dirt.

Whooping cough kills people. Measles presents a major risk to immune compromised people.

Uranium is natural, it doesn't mean it is good for you.

 

[fskimospy]

So by your response I take it you have no problems with women risking inflicting HIV on their children?

Not sure why you are pro infecting babies with HIV. Clearly you cannot have any principles about it being wrong to force medical procedures on people judging by your pro-vaccination stance :hmm:

What made you know that she was the one for you?

 

[nehalem256]

What made you know that she was the one for you?

Why do you have such a problem addressing my argument?

Other than the fact that it would reveal you are a blatant hypocrite?

 

[Texashiker]

Forcing people to be vaccinated is perfectly fine. It is the price they pay to live in civilized society. You do not have a right to inflict infectious disease on others in the name of freedom.

Forcing people to be sterilized was perfectly fine, for a good portion of the 20th century.

Owning blacks was perfectly fine, in the 1700s and 1800s.

Killing native Americans was perfectly fine, for almost 300 years.

A truly civilized society upholds the rights of the individual. There is no freedom without individual freedom.

 

[fskimospy]

Why do you have such a problem addressing my argument?

Other than the fact that it would reveal you are a blatant hypocrite?

How did you meet? On the internet? At a bar? At the bookstore? The bookstore would be the most romantic. When you lie to people in the future, say you met at a bookstore.

 

[fskimospy]

Forcing people to be sterilized was perfectly fine, for a good portion of the 20th century.

Owning blacks was perfectly fine, in the 1700s and 1800s.

Killing native Americans was perfectly fine, for almost 300 years.

A truly civilized society upholds the rights of the individual.

The rights of an individual do not include inflicting infectious disease on others.

 

[Texashiker]

The rights of an individual do not include inflicting infectious disease on others.

At one time being gay was considered a disease.

There were even public service announcements talking about how being gay was not normal.

 

[fskimospy]

At one time being gay was considered a disease.

None of your arguments make any sense. Being gay isn't contagious.

 

[nehalem256]

The rights of an individual do not include inflicting infectious disease on others.

So you support sterilization for women with HIV then right?

Yes or no. Its not a tough question?

 

[Texashiker]

None of your arguments make any sense.

None of your arguments about how making personal sacrifices are needed to live in a free society make any sense.

If the rights of the individual are sacrificed, then we do not live in a free society.

 

[fskimospy]

So you support sterilization for women with HIV then right?

Yes or no. Its not a tough question?

Did you meet your fake girlfriend at a bookstore?

Yes or no. It is not a tough question?

 

[fskimospy]

None of your arguments about how making personal sacrifices are needed to live in a free society make any sense.

What? Of course personal sacrifices are needed to live in any society. That is simply beyond argument. What do you think laws are?

 

[Texashiker]

What? Of course personal sacrifices are needed to live in any society. That is simply beyond argument. What do you think laws are?

Laws that rounded up those savage native americans to be put on a reservation were ok? After all, to live in a society we have to make sacrifices.

Laws that sterilized tens of thousands of undesirables during the 20th century were ok? After all, living in a free society requires scarifies.

There is a difference in living in a society, and living in a free society. Our goal is to live in a free society where the rights of the individual are upheld. Without individual rights, we have nothing.

 

[WelshBloke]

So you support sterilization for women with HIV then right?

Yes or no. Its not a tough question?

How would sterilisation stop the spread of HIV?