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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,521
136
Here's a suggestion to get recognized, for a start. Trump and Nunes haven't invited Democrats. How about Chuck S says "screw that", gets a few reporters and lets it be known that he's attending and taking notes and will be heard.

Go over and force Trump to admit him or physically restrain a leader of Congress to forbid access. Take lots of pictures in that event and hammer home "this is what the Swamp really is" and Dems get in the faces of the administration, literally if required.

"Damn, did you see that? Schumer did something besides wagging his tongue. Maybe there are people with balls after all".
Invited Democrats where? Taking notes where?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Invited Democrats where? Taking notes where?

Trump, Nunes and apparently other Republicans will be involved with the DOJ and asking them for information. No Dems were invited to any meeting. Show up anyway when they happen. It won't cost Dems anything but having Republicans restraining Schumer is going to make them look like shit to anyone not a full-fledged Trumpette. Use optics to put Reps on the defensive and there's nothing to lose.
 

Bubbleawsome

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2013
4,834
1,204
146
Trump, Nunes and apparently other Republicans will be involved with the DOJ and asking them for information. No Dems were invited to any meeting. Show up anyway when they happen. It won't cost Dems anything but having Republicans restraining Schumer is going to make them look like shit to anyone not a full-fledged Trumpette. Use optics to put Reps on the defensive and there's nothing to lose.
They're already viewed as interfering and obstructionist by almost every conservative I know. That would just hurt their image more.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
They're already viewed as interfering and obstructionist by almost every conservative I know. That would just hurt their image more.

Who are "they"? If you mean Democrats consider that it's impossible for conservatives to vote in support of Trump and Republicans more than they are. They can be written off as a solid and unwavering base which is going to vote, but we can influence people that might stay home out of frustration to vote against Trump interests. Making plans to have a platform against Trump is utterly boring to many, more words and nothing to show for them. Action captures attention and imagination.

Let me ask you this. Given there were two people, one who talks about how bad the opposition is and one who not only talks but makes themselves seen in a very public way such as going out in the manner I suggest. Which do you believe gets noticed more?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
I think the Democrats need a younger Bernie Sanders as a charismatic leader. They also need to stop being so politically correct - in two ways. Call Trump a liar. Call him a disgrace. Call him an insult to the nation. And the other way is to stop being politically correct when Trump uses a word like 'animals' in response to a question about violent gang members. Just cause he used the word before, and we all know he is a racist that probably thinks most non-white immigrants are animals, that is certainly not the hill to plant your flag and die on. There are other examples of that but this one just happened most recently and it sums it up perfectly. That's it in a very small nutshell.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,818
136
Of course, I know you do. His pants are poopie too.

Oh, liberals are worse than child molesters? That's fascinating. Since no one I know has inferred that by the wildest stretch of the imagination, that's news!

You don't even know what's going on do you?
Is murder not worse than molesting in the face of the law? They are called baby killers all the time.

At the end of the day, this shit storm has gotten this big because we have allowed insane propaganda outlets claim they are news and brainwash millions of people.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,818
136
Democrat and GOP policy *on paper* is opposite in many ways; however, if you honestly can say with a straight face in practice they arent nearly identical, well...Im not the retarded one.

The classic "I'm not a republican" talking point. It is complete and utter crap too. Look at what the GOP is currently doing to everything Obama got done, then claim that they have nearly identical policies. Maybe you can say that about them liking war, but domestically, socially, and economical they are very dissimilar.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,818
136
The problem with the Dems IMO, is that they have lost touch with the concerns of most people, and simply jump from liberal cause to liberal cause depending on which is most popular at the moment. Not that I disagree with most of them, it is just that they focus too much on liberal causes and attacking (rightfully) the racist, bigoted, biased viewpoint of the Republicans, Trump especially. What they need to do is focus on helping the vast middle of the population, and come up with a policy to actually change things, i.e. control healthcare, make higher education more affordable, protect the environment without going to unreasonable lengths, and so forth. It is really hard to explain what I mean without sounding like a Trumper, but the Dems have to recapture the middle ground. Hard to believe that almost a year and a half into the Trump presidency, the Dems havent come up with a charismatic leader or a coherent mainstream platform to counter him.

Edit: It is a sad indictment of our country, but when Trump was elected, I thought for sure we would rebel against his policies and that for certain he would be run out of office in the next election by a landslide. Sadly, if the next election were taking place now, in the absence of any strong moderate leaders from the Dems, I think he could be re-elected.
The problem is the solutions for the middle class require real policies that don't fit in a sound bite. The GOP offer simple minded BS that is easy to sell. Hilary had some very good policies but no one covered it, it was much easier to talk about walls and bathrooms.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
The classic "I'm not a republican" talking point. It is complete and utter crap too. Look at what the GOP is currently doing to everything Obama got done, then claim that they have nearly identical policies. Maybe you can say that about them liking war, but domestically, socially, and economical they are very dissimilar.

OK. Lets look at a few issues.

Gerrymandering. I dont need to post evidence of the GOP. The Democrats, however, are guilty of it as well. Take Maryland for example.

Annapolis newspaper The Capital reported earlier this week that the Old Line State has claimed the dubious distinction for having produced some of the "least compact and most gerrymandered congressional districts in the nation."

Electing POTUS. Both parties formally control the process. Each party elects its electors. Parties dont necessarily elect electors in a non-partisan way, but rather elect electors who will carry the party line.

Supporting the two party system. Despite the public's mistrust in general of the two party system, both parties discourage support for third part or independent candidates. They both claim they are wasted votes, and will steal votes from their respective party. Evidence of this is party debates. Only one person has participated in debates that wasnt either Democrat or GOP...Ross Perot in 1992. In 2000, the CPD enacted rules that a candidate must have at least 15% of national support in order to participate. Pretty fair, right?

In most states, both parties control primary elections by requiring voters to use a single ballot for multiple races. In many states, you must register as a Democrat or Republican to vote in POTUS elections.This creates a closed primary. DNC chair Debbie Shultz said “I believe that the party’s nominee should be chosen — this is Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s opinion — that the party’s nominee should be chosen by members of the party,” Yeah. Thats fair.

Both parties receive substantial financial support from Wall Street.

Both parties continue to support significant PAC donations from lobbyists in elections

Members of congress, no matter the party, dont represent those who they are supposed to represent, as most are wealthy and in the top .5%.

Both parties have been involved in scandals involving the solicitation of of foreign money. The DNC in the 90's, the Clinton campaign was fined for soliciting and receiving millions in donations from China, Korea, and Venezuela.. Likewise, the GOP was scrutinized for for setting up a loan in Hong Kong that was allegedly used to funnel money to the GOP. And Trump has been accused of receiving foreign funds for his campaign.

Both parties equally contribute to gridlock and obstructionism in Washington.

Both parties use negative ad campaigns in elections.

Both parties have supported corporate bailouts.

Both parties have engaged in favors to political supporters. Most notedly the DNC with the now bankrupt Solyndra, and the GOP with Halliburton. Amongst others.

Both parties have engaged in questionable POTUS pardons.

Both parties' constituents are pretty sick and tired of partisan politics.

Both parties are responsible for the growth of the federal deficit and debt.

Both parties are responsible for the trade deficit.

Both parties have been accused of violating Americans rights. Bush, with his wiretapping laws under the Patriot Act (ruled unconstitutional) and in 2015 the collections of bulk call data supported by Obama.

Both parties administrations have deployed American troops without a formal declaration of war.

Both parties have similar beliefs in free trade. Neither protectionist or unconditional free trade.

Neither party supports a single payer position for health care.





Shall I go on?
 
Last edited:

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
Another both sides retard.

He's not a republican, he just repeats republican talking points. I especially liked how campaign donations equals bought and paid for politicians.

The rest is all gut feels.

OK. Lets look at a few issues.

Gerrymandering. I dont need to post evidence of the GOP. The Democrats, however, are guilty of it as well. Take Maryland for example.



Electing POTUS. Both parties formally control the process. Each party elects its electors. Parties dont necessarily elect electors in a non-partisan way, but rather elect electors who will carry the party line.

Supporting the two party system. Despite the public's mistrust in general of the two party system, both parties discourage support for third part or independent candidates. They both claim they are wasted votes, and will steal votes from their respective party. Evidence of this is party debates. Only one person has participated in debates that wasnt either Democrat or GOP...Ross Perot in 1992. In 2000, the CPD enacted rules that a candidate must have at least 15% of national support in order to participate. Pretty fair, right?

In most states, both parties control primary elections by requiring voters to use a single ballot for multiple races. In many states, you must register as a Democrat or Republican to vote in POTUS elections.This creates a closed primary. DNC chair Debbie Shultz said “I believe that the party’s nominee should be chosen — this is Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s opinion — that the party’s nominee should be chosen by members of the party,” Yeah. Thats fair.

Both parties receive substantial financial support from Wall Street.

Both parties continue to support significant PAC donations from lobbyists in elections

Members of congress, no matter the party, dont represent those who they are supposed to represent, as most are wealthy and in the top .5%.

Both parties have been involved in scandals involving the solicitation of of foreign money. The DNC in the 90's, the Clinton campaign was fined for soliciting and receiving millions in donations from China, Korea, and Venezuela.. Likewise, the GOP was scrutinized for for setting up a loan in Hong Kong that was allegedly used to funnel money to the GOP. And Trump has been accused of receiving foreign funds for his campaign.

Both parties equally contribute to gridlock and obstructionism in Washington.

Both parties use negative ad campaigns in elections.

Both parties have supported corporate bailouts.

Both parties have engaged in favors to political supporters. Most notedly the DNC with the now bankrupt Solyndra, and the GOP with Halliburton. Amongst others.

Both parties have engaged in questionable POTUS pardons.

Both parties' constituents are pretty sick and tired of partisan politics.

Both parties are responsible for the growth of the federal deficit and debt.

Both parties are responsible for the trade deficit.

Both parties have been accused of violating Americans rights. Bush, with his wiretapping laws under the Patriot Act (ruled unconstitutional) and in 2015 the collections of bulk call data supported by Obama.

Both parties administrations have deployed American troops without a formal declaration of war.

Both parties have similar beliefs in free trade. Neither protectionist or unconditional free trade.

Neither party supports a single payer position for health care.





Shall I go on?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,521
136
Who are "they"? If you mean Democrats consider that it's impossible for conservatives to vote in support of Trump and Republicans more than they are. They can be written off as a solid and unwavering base which is going to vote, but we can influence people that might stay home out of frustration to vote against Trump interests. Making plans to have a platform against Trump is utterly boring to many, more words and nothing to show for them. Action captures attention and imagination.

Let me ask you this. Given there were two people, one who talks about how bad the opposition is and one who not only talks but makes themselves seen in a very public way such as going out in the manner I suggest. Which do you believe gets noticed more?
Says the guy who thinks stopping Trump is the biggest issue facing America today. But the people who think it is boring aren't stupid, right? It's the Democrats who make it boring, right?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,085
146
Democrats have zero chance for one reason and one reason only. They dont have a platform most people agree with. All they do is cry Trump! Trump! Trump!

Whose fault is that?

Actually, most people do agree with the democratic platform. That's why they nearly always win the popular vote in national elections and in non-gerrymandered districts. This is supported by actual numbers: the ones that exist in the real world.

If you actually cared about election integrity and democracy, you would accept this truth and express concern that we are currently being lead by a minority of nationally and locally unpopular sycophants. This is the observable truth. There is no other reality that is going on in this nation today. Do you understand that or do you not understand that?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,860
136
OK. Lets look at a few issues.

Gerrymandering. I dont need to post evidence of the GOP. The Democrats, however, are guilty of it as well. Take Maryland for example.



Electing POTUS. Both parties formally control the process. Each party elects its electors. Parties dont necessarily elect electors in a non-partisan way, but rather elect electors who will carry the party line.

Supporting the two party system. Despite the public's mistrust in general of the two party system, both parties discourage support for third part or independent candidates. They both claim they are wasted votes, and will steal votes from their respective party. Evidence of this is party debates. Only one person has participated in debates that wasnt either Democrat or GOP...Ross Perot in 1992. In 2000, the CPD enacted rules that a candidate must have at least 15% of national support in order to participate. Pretty fair, right?

In most states, both parties control primary elections by requiring voters to use a single ballot for multiple races. In many states, you must register as a Democrat or Republican to vote in POTUS elections.This creates a closed primary. DNC chair Debbie Shultz said “I believe that the party’s nominee should be chosen — this is Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s opinion — that the party’s nominee should be chosen by members of the party,” Yeah. Thats fair.

Both parties receive substantial financial support from Wall Street.

Both parties continue to support significant PAC donations from lobbyists in elections

Members of congress, no matter the party, dont represent those who they are supposed to represent, as most are wealthy and in the top .5%.

Both parties have been involved in scandals involving the solicitation of of foreign money. The DNC in the 90's, the Clinton campaign was fined for soliciting and receiving millions in donations from China, Korea, and Venezuela.. Likewise, the GOP was scrutinized for for setting up a loan in Hong Kong that was allegedly used to funnel money to the GOP. And Trump has been accused of receiving foreign funds for his campaign.

Both parties equally contribute to gridlock and obstructionism in Washington.

Both parties use negative ad campaigns in elections.

Both parties have supported corporate bailouts.

Both parties have engaged in favors to political supporters. Most notedly the DNC with the now bankrupt Solyndra, and the GOP with Halliburton. Amongst others.

Both parties have engaged in questionable POTUS pardons.

Both parties' constituents are pretty sick and tired of partisan politics.

Both parties are responsible for the growth of the federal deficit and debt.

Both parties are responsible for the trade deficit.

Both parties have been accused of violating Americans rights. Bush, with his wiretapping laws under the Patriot Act (ruled unconstitutional) and in 2015 the collections of bulk call data supported by Obama.

Both parties administrations have deployed American troops without a formal declaration of war.

Both parties have similar beliefs in free trade. Neither protectionist or unconditional free trade.

Neither party supports a single payer position for health care.

Shall I go on?

You cannot possibly be serious with this nonsense. I am so sick and tired of this ‘both parties are the same’ stupidity. No one who has paid even the slightest bit of attention over the last 30 years can make such a claim with a straight face. One party is a center-left party. The other is a radical right party.

I get the sense that even you know you’re wrong as you’re using weasel terms like ‘neither party supports single payer health care’. This of course ignores the fact that one party spent the last ten years attempting, and largely succeeding, in establishing near-universal health coverage and the other spent the last ten years trying to remove it. As someone with a serious pre-existing condition I can tell you the two parties are pretty fucking different for me on health care.

Second and more simply, had Al Gore been president we would not have invaded Iraq.

I could offer you dozens or hundreds of other ways the two parties are not remotely the same if you’d like. I hope you know you’re doing the radical right a favor by saying this too, if they pay no price for their radicalism and they have people saying ‘both sides’ no matter what they do then conservatives have no motivation to behave better.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,860
136
Democrats have zero chance for one reason and one reason only. They dont have a platform most people agree with. All they do is cry Trump! Trump! Trump!

Whose fault is that?

You realize this is provably false, right? Where did you get this nonsense idea from?

There’s a ton of polling information that clearly shows Democrats have a platform most people agree with. Pick almost any issue and you’ll see the Democratic position is preferred. People don’t vote based on party platforms though, they vote tribally.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,860
136
Extreme Gish gallop from blackangst1, huh?

Look I know that one party expanded health insurance to 30 million poor Americans and the other party spent the last decade attempting to sabotage that accomplishment by any means possible but both parties use negative ads so they are basically the same.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
136
Yup, everyone's pants are poopy except yours. You're the only adult in the room. Golly I hope you can help us idiot Democrats to find our way. I bet the solution isn't to meet somewhere in the middle or to respect batshit opinions.
He so full of ideas and advice for us. We really should listen to the oracle.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Another both sides retard.

He's not a republican, he just repeats republican talking points. I especially liked how campaign donations equals bought and paid for politicians.

The rest is all gut feels.

Yup. Because I dont really have a side in general. There are plenty of GOP talking points I agree with as well as Democrat. For the latter, health insurance availability. I support most of Obamacare. Deregulation of banks is another. See my sig? Yeah thats been there for YEARS. I dont think either party has all the solutions. Unfortunately, in our so polarized society, people in the middle, like me, dont seem to be popular. Im OK with that :)
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
You realize this is provably false, right? Where did you get this nonsense idea from?

There’s a ton of polling information that clearly shows Democrats have a platform most people agree with. Pick almost any issue and you’ll see the Democratic position is preferred. People don’t vote based on party platforms though, they vote tribally.

Then why arent they in the majority? Who is to blame for that? Stupid voters?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,521
136
Yup. Because I dont really have a side in general. There are plenty of GOP talking points I agree with as well as Democrat. For the latter, health insurance availability. I support most of Obamacare. Deregulation of banks is another. See my sig? Yeah thats been there for YEARS. I dont think either party has all the solutions. Unfortunately, in our so polarized society, people in the middle, like me, dont seem to be popular. Im OK with that :)
When you're in the middle of shit and not shit, you're just half covered in shit.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
When you're in the middle of shit and not shit, you're just half covered in shit.

Its a shame people like you cant see both sides have ideas and ideals that benefit the country. Its also people like you this country is hopelessly polarized right now.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,521
136
Its a shame people like you cant see both sides have ideas and ideals that benefit the country. Its also people like you this country is hopelessly polarized right now.
Name a GOP policy that benefits the country. Just one will do.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Its a shame people like you cant see both sides have ideas and ideals that benefit the country. Its also people like you this country is hopelessly polarized right now.

The problem is that the most of them are on the Democrat side right now. The "both sides" rhetoric sounds good on the surface, but it falsely implies that there's an equal distribution of good ideas. The Democrats aren't the ones trying to undermine the very foundations of democracy, the free press, and the scientific method.
 
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