*****ANANDTECHS crossfire review*****

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo
It's not just soft shadows though is it Creig? It's SM3

The SM3.0 options do make a visual difference in SC:CT, and they're worth enabling if spare graphics power is sitting idle.

and HDR

With HDR enabled, the game literally comes alive

I don't think I need to go on- it's better to have SM3, soft shadows, and HDR than not, especially on a $1000 dual card rig that you may want to last a while and not say to yourself "SM2 and 2003 features are good enough! Damn programmers implementing all this SM3/soft shadow/EXR HDR crap!". I want modern tech for myt $1000 Creig- if you were actually considering buying this you would too.

$1,000? Hardly. If somebody already has a single X800/X850, the MOST they'll be paying will be approximately $750 ($549 for the Master card, $200 for the motherboard), assuming their PS is up to snuff. And as I already stated, I'd doubt that the Master card will debut at that price. Or even if it does, it will drop quickly. Who would want to purchase a single 16 pipe card when they could pay the same amount for a 24 pipe 7800GTX?

Originally posted by: Rollo
I am not saying this to flame you or your 9500NP.

Once again Rollo has to slide in my use of a soft-modded 9500NP to show EVERYBODY that his system is so much better than mine. It's simply sad you feel the need to continue doing this to feed your ego as I'm still happy with its performance and will upgrade when I feel it's necessary. It's especially pathetic so soon after you posted:

Originally posted by: Rollo
Only a very small man cares if he has the "best" of a material possession, and for how long.

Originally posted by: Rollo
Someone will always have a better computer than you, a prettier wife, a nicer house, a better car. I'd prefer to enjoy what I have than second guess myself all day and whine about the deal that got away.

I guess Rollo is the only person who is allowed to enjoy the system he currently has. I THOUGHT I was happy with my current system, but apparently I'm not.

Originally posted by: Rollo
I am saying this because there is a HUGE difference in you saying "You don't need that stuff anyway" when you have no intent whatsoever to buy it, and me saying "Wait a minute- this is $1000 I worked hard for- I want the current feature set and MS standard- not some stuff that was hot two years ago"
I've put my money where my mouth is 4X on this issue and am currently runnign two high end SLI rigs. IMO that carries more weight than you saying, "Ah nobody likes those features anyway" when the soft shadows you mock are currently scaling 1.9X in SLI?

Gee, Rollo. Maybe I didn't purchase it because I felt it wasn't necessary. Why in the world would I purchase something if I didn't feel I needed it?!? I wish you would stop and think before posting.

Originally posted by: Rollo
As far as "an expensive master card", nobody knows for sure how much they are going to be.
We don't?
With an MSRP of $549, I think we can assume they won't be cheap.

You can assume they won't be cheap, I'll assume they won't be as expensive as $549 (or won't be for very long). That's the nice thing about assuming. We can each assume something different.

Originally posted by: Creig
A person can currently pick up an X850XT PE for $350 (possibly even $75 less with a MIR).

Originally posted by: Rollo
Link please? Remember has to be PCIE, and neweggs cheapest AFTER MIR is $394 for a generic Connect3d.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...ry=0&minPrice=&maxPrice=&Go.x=0&Go.y=0

Here ya go. Connect3D Radeon X850XT Platinum PCI-E - $349.99. There's still some debate as to whether an additional $75 can be saved through the use of a MIR.

Originally posted by: Rollo
Nice try to spin it though.

Interesting comment coming from the unofficial Nvidia PR rep.

 

[Gamingphreek]

4 SLI
2 Crossfire
2 Tied

Looks like SLI (granted it has had much more time to mature, and these are preliminary benches) is the winner in perforance gain.

It is using the fastest of each company. 6800U vs. X850XT. Once again it isn't the crossfire that is faster. It is the actual cards that are being Crossfired that are faster. Remember, although you may gain that performance lead (not performance delta lead) you do sacrifice quite a few features.

The 7800GTX is afar better choice than either.

True, unless you already have a 6800GT and found a really good deal on another one or something. But all in all, yeah i agree.

I feel like a broken record

It feels good to have a nice civil discussion now

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Here ya go. Connect3D Radeon X850XT Platinum PCI-E - $349.99. There's still some debate as to whether an additional $75 can be saved through the use of a MIR.

Granted the price is there, but no person in there right mind would order off of Tiger Direct.

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: trinibwoy
Doom3 34%-SLI 43%-Crossfire
Doom3 4x 82%-SLI 71%-Crossfire
EQII 1%-SLI 2%-Crossfire
HL2 22%-SLI 11%-Crossfire
HL2 4x 68%-SLI 30%-Crossfire
SplinterCell 89%-SLI 82%Crossfire
SplinterCell 4x 34%-SLI 84%-Crossfire
UT2004 4%-SLI 6%-Crossfire

if you average those percentages out you get
Crossfire- 41.125%
SLI- 41.75%

This is a.9850299401% advantage to SLI.
This is for all intents and purposes a tie

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Here ya go. Connect3D Radeon X850XT Platinum PCI-E - $349.99. There's still some debate as to whether an additional $75 can be saved through the use of a MIR.

Granted the price is there, but no person in there right mind would order off of Tiger Direct.

TD is fine. They have huge problems with their rebates, but the rebate in question is from ATI.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Here ya go. Connect3D Radeon X850XT Platinum PCI-E - $349.99. There's still some debate as to whether an additional $75 can be saved through the use of a MIR.

Granted the price is there, but no person in there right mind would order off of Tiger Direct.

TD is fine. They have huge problems with their rebates, but the rebate in question is from ATI.

You have to be kidding me. How can you even argue that point?

-Kevin

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Here ya go. Connect3D Radeon X850XT Platinum PCI-E - $349.99. There's still some debate as to whether an additional $75 can be saved through the use of a MIR.

Granted the price is there, but no person in there right mind would order off of Tiger Direct.

TD is fine. They have huge problems with their rebates, but the rebate in question is from ATI.

You have to be kidding me. How can you even argue that point?

-Kevin

Its not hard Tiger Direct had a 7.3 reseller rating

 

[zendari]

7.3 Resellerrating. Not great but not terrible.

Oh, but since its an ATI deal I guess it doesn't count.

 

[Zebo]

Dells got a 4 and that does'nt stop anyone. 7.3 is fine. No worries, chargebacks are your friend, Dells had a few from me.

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: fierydemise
if you average those percentages out you get
Crossfire- 41.125%
SLI- 41.75%

This is a.9850299401% advantage to SLI.
This is for all intents and purposes a tie

lol

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Dells got a 4 and that does'nt stop anyone. 7.3 is fine. No worries, chargebacks are your friend, Dells had a few from me.

good point

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Haha, talk about spin. Still trying to push the same argument, that never worked the first time.

1. Not everyone likes HDR in every game.
2. HDR doesnt work with AA.
3. SLI doesnt speed up HDR.
4. HDR takes a huge hit, and is unplayable at a higher res, which is what people are probably going to be playing at, with a $500+ card.
5. To get playable frames, you have to lower in-game quality settings, which defeats the purpose of enabling HDR.

If you say Crossfire as it is now, makes no sense, then the same goes for 6800 series SLI.

I agree, SM 3.0 at this point is still no big deal. HDR is also no big deal since the only game I've really used it in is SC:CT and the game sucks anyway. Most mainstream games don't utilize any of these advanced features so for someone with an existing X850 PCI-e card, the Xfire upgrade seems well worth it. The master card at $500? I highly doubt it not to mention ATi is giving out a $100 rebate to people who opt for Xfire. Also it's now rumored the Xfire chipsets will also allow SLI so you get the best of both rather than being stuck with just SLI if you choose nforce 4 (like I did). I sorta wish I waited longer now since the performance of this 7800 GTX has been underwhelming. Just look at those SLI vs Xfire charts and you can see the X850 gives an SLI'd 7800 GTX a run for its money. Just look at the facts and decide for yourself what you think is best, you don't need someone else telling you what to do.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I say the SM3.0 was not a big deal back when the X800 series came out. That's what makes a Crossfired X850 not a good solution.

Either go ahead and jump onto the NVidia boat or wait for the R520.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Kevin's right... This not a matter of him misinterpreting what you are saying... It is a matter of you not remembering your slanted comments correctly. Making the mistake is fine... Trying to make it look like Kevin is wrong makes you come off as an asshole. You're probably not really an asshole, so just admit that you said SLI was inferior to Xfire in all possible ways and we can move on.

No. If you read my comment I never said we should bash SLI. I said if you're bashing Crossfire, you should be bashing SLI at the same time (The reason being that SLI is not as good as Crossfire) I appreciate both technologies, so I don't bash either.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I say the SM3.0 was not a big deal back when the X800 series came out. That's what makes a Crossfired X850 not a good solution.

Either go ahead and jump onto the NVidia boat or wait for the R520.

It still isn't for an enthusiast. I agree SM 3.0 is good for someone that keeps a card for a few years at a time but for someone that changes cards often it is really no big deal. It still won't be even when R520 comes out since it's simply not used much. I give it at least another year before it truly becomes mainstream.

 

[Auric]

In my opine, dual cards are only suitable for the frequent upgrader keen on maintaining maximum performance (duh). As such, dual R4xx based cards would be a very interim solution like dual 6800's were (indeed, buying first generation "beta" gear is not a great idea). Likewise, buying one card with the notion of augmenting it at a later date will likely remain silly. The hassle and extra peripheral expense of dual versus single aside, it seems unlikely that manufacturers in general will willingly allow two of their cards to significanlty outperform a single one which reaps equivalent profit.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: trinibwoy

Originally posted by: fierydemise
if you average those percentages out you get
Crossfire- 41.125%
SLI- 41.75%

This is a.9850299401% advantage to SLI.
This is for all intents and purposes a tie

lol

:laugh:

Anyhow those are 1600x1200 at 4xAA. Now That is not a setting you want to play with 1000 dollar cards.. Crank up those AF AA, 1600x1200 4xAA 8xAF or 16xAF. Now there you would see the real winner, unless its a tie again....

Ok WHY are you arguing against rollo? he made really good statments.. You invaded the valid points he made!!! Now if you had 1000 what would you pick SLi or Crossfire?

Cross fire and SLi seemed to be in a tie.. but the features of the cards being used..
You would rather choose S.M2 card, with no HDR, no soft shadows? Performance is good, but when buying these systems you want to onsider everything. And Ackmed, SC:CT is a built up S.M3.0 game. And un(fortunately) it runs quite fast on the 6800U, 50~60fps is good. And yes i played doom3 on my 5700 on 20fps... i stil beat it on night mare

The real deal is the R520. Unless your a ATi fanatic.. there is actually no point in buying Crossfire X850s, X800s.. But for owners of 6800GTs and U with a SLi board can have the option to buy another without having to strees on the new board, PSU, and features. Remember that about 750 000 SLi boards were sold.

Zebo and the majority of the people in this thread is right.. their bit late to the party.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Auric
In my opine, dual cards are only suitable for the frequent upgrader keen on maintaining maximum performance (duh). As such, dual R4xx based cards would be a very interim solution like dual 6800's were (indeed, buying first generation "beta" gear is not a great idea). Likewise, buying one card with the notion of augmenting it at a later date will likely remain silly. The hassle and extra peripheral expense of dual versus single aside, it seems unlikely that manufacturers in general will willingly allow two of their cards to significanlty outperform a single one which reaps equivalent profit.

I agree, getting an X850 xfire when having other choices would be pointless for an enthusiast with a lot of $$ that is looking for the best so getting an xfire setup with an R520 or SLI would make perfect sense for that kind of person. However, it could be worthwhile for someone that owns an X850 and doesn't want to spend an upwards of $1000+ for 7800 GTX SLI/R520 Xfire setup. The $100 ATi rebate + another X850 and Xfire motherboard seems an attractive option for someone that wants performance at a decent cost. A DFI motherboard that accepts Xfire/SLI is simply drool worthy.

 

[Drayvn]

But for ppl who want to get another 6800 is probably not going to be possible soon

As nVidia are just waiting to get rid of most of their 6800 inventory and start ramping up the 7800 series.

So not a really viable path of SLi upgrade. Or not a viable upgrade since they wont probably be coming down at all, maybe a little to sell em quicker but thats it.

The link i cant find but i did post it some time ago.

 

[Cookie Monster]

That is the problem though, but i dont think Nvidia want to start shooting at their own feet do they? just like ATi did...

Good point..

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I say the SM3.0 was not a big deal back when the X800 series came out. That's what makes a Crossfired X850 not a good solution.

Either go ahead and jump onto the NVidia boat or wait for the R520.

At least we agree on one thing...

 

[Rock Hydra]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
It looks very promising. It shows the same gains that SLI does. I think the reason it wins in a lot of cases is because the 6800U is slower than the X850XT from the get go. Additionally, i dont think it was a good idea to bench Splinter Cell, seeing as that gives a twisted view. THe Nvidia cards run SM3 whereas the ATI cards can only run SM1.1.

Other than that :thumbsup: ATI. Just as solid as SLI so far.

-Kevin

Yeah ATI was ahead there a half a generation releasing a newer chip. Too bad there wasn't an x800 variant. That would have possibly made it more realistic to the 6800, but also in the other respect a card from last generation is nearly comparing to a next-gen chip. :shocked:

 

[Gamingphreek]

The reason being that SLI is not as good as Crossfire

If they are solid, and you are neutral on this matter why are you saying that. All evidence points to a SLI having <1% advantage overall. In otherwords both technologies are equal. How can you say this, with no evidence, yet still be neutral.

However, it could be worthwhile for someone that owns an X850 and doesn't want to spend an upwards of $1000+ for 7800 GTX SLI/R520 Xfire setup.

If they are planning on keeping that setup for any length of time it would be much wiser to get SLI 6 series due to the features. You can downplay SM3 all you want earlier, however, now games that are supporting these technologies are hitting the market left and right. It simply would not make sense to SLI X8 series chips. The reason being, not because Crossfire isn't as good as SLI or anything like that, but because of the cards that are being linked.

While i find it hard to recommend SLIing 6 series chips right now, it makes more sense than the X8 series. When R520 comes out, that is when Crossfire will become a viable solution.

-Kevin

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
But for ppl who want to get another 6800 is probably not going to be possible soon

As nVidia are just waiting to get rid of most of their 6800 inventory and start ramping up the 7800 series.

So not a really viable path of SLi upgrade. Or not a viable upgrade since they wont probably be coming down at all, maybe a little to sell em quicker but thats it.

The link i cant find but i did post it some time ago.

There is simply no reason to SLI a 6800 card with the 7800s available.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Drayvn
But for ppl who want to get another 6800 is probably not going to be possible soon

As nVidia are just waiting to get rid of most of their 6800 inventory and start ramping up the 7800 series.

So not a really viable path of SLi upgrade. Or not a viable upgrade since they wont probably be coming down at all, maybe a little to sell em quicker but thats it.

The link i cant find but i did post it some time ago.

There is simply no reason to SLI a 6800 card with the 7800s available.

:roll:

None at all.....

Doom3 75fps 6800U SLI vs 54 7800GTX

FEAR 49fps 6800SLI vs 40 7800GTX

SC:CT 73fps 6800U SLI vs 59 7800GTX

BF2 44fps 6800U SLI vs 38 7800GTX

The 6800U SLI and 6800GT SLI are very powerful gaming solutions. The release of the 7800GTX doesn't change that.

Differences between your opinion and mine Zendari?
A. I provided links to back my views.
B. I actually own and use all the hardware in question daily, you've only read about it.