*****ANANDTECHS crossfire review*****

[ddogg]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
I think ATi should focus more on the R520, so they can get that out faster instead of wasting time on crossfire. I'm sure more people would buy a single Radeon X900 instead of a dual X850's.

exactly...especially since a single R520 will outperform this setup. i feel that crossfire setup for the X800/X850 series is a bit too late. R520 in dual setup is what people are really looking forward to.

 

[XBoxLPU]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I'm impressed. :thumbsup:

I don't think there is much market for this after reading that review, here's why:

1. If you have a X850 already, you're going to buy a new motherboard, maybe PSU, and an expensive master card to get faster SM2 performance? In mid 2005? IIRC the X850 master was $550., these motherboards might be fairly high priced at first, and are basically beta boards. You could set yourself up with 7800GTs in a couple weeks for less, probably get the same performance. (and these aren't out either- we'll see which makes it first.

2. 6800U/SLI mobo owner: no compelling performance reason to switch

3. 7800GTX/SLI owner: downgrade

The real value of this will be shown with R520.

1. If you have a X800/X850 already, you can pick up the motherboard and master card and have a setup that's as fast/faster than a 6800U SLI setup. The ability to have "soft shadows" doesn't seem to excite most people as much as it does you, Rollo.

As far as "an expensive master card", nobody knows for sure how much they are going to be. A person can currently pick up an X850XT PE for $350 (possibly even $75 less with a MIR). Prices have dropped a lot lately thanks to the 7800GTX, so I would be highly surprised if we see a $500 price tag on the Master card. Even if it debuts at $500, I would expect the price to drop rapidly soon after.

2. No reason they should switch. They already have an equivalent setup. This would be for people who don't currently own an SLI capable motherboard.

3. This was even worth mentioning? OBVIOUSLY nobody with a 7800GTX/SLI setup is going to be looking at this.

WHY would anyone be looking at this?

1. If you have an X850 and want to spend another $300-500 just for the master card not to mention ~$100-150 for a new motherboard. You could easily sell your current X850 and buy one 78000GTX or even GT and have the same or even better performance for less money.

Originally posted by: Ackmed, you have to lower in-game quality settings, which defeats the purpose of enabling HDR.

If you say Crossfire as it is now, makes no sense, then the same goes for 6800 series SLI.

Both make no sense right now.

At the price of owning SLI X850/6800 Ultra you could easily own a single 7800GTX...

And those who even own a single X800/X850 6800 Ultra and bought into the SLI "upgrade" at a later point in time by simple adding another card, you would probably come out spending less money on a 7800GTX card after selling your current 6800 Ultra/X850...

 

[SilverTrine]

Whats the problem you buy a card now and you have a possible upgrade path at some point if you so desire. How is that bad?

Personally I'd never do it because 1 card is hot and noisy enough, but I'm not complaining about having the feature. You people would gripe about anything I swear.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Yet, when they test out CrossFire, the max res is 1600x1200... Just seems odd to me. Even between the 6800Ultras and the 7800GTXes in SLI is the huge difference comes in at 2048x1536, and not at 1600x1200.

A little immature benchmark don't you say? The test we saw for Crossfire weren't exactly indepth, so oh well...

I don't get why anyone's dissing Crossfire. The only thing stupid about it is that it's late. IF it's stupid you should be bashing the crap out of NVidia SLI as well because in all possible ways, its inferior to Crossfire. So fanboys, please shut it.

 

[Zebo]

A day late and a dollar short is the best way to describe crossfire. (actually a year late but that's not how the saying goes)

6800U SLi been out a year, and today GTX SLi absolutly spanks it, same price.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Yet, when they test out CrossFire, the max res is 1600x1200... Just seems odd to me. Even between the 6800Ultras and the 7800GTXes in SLI is the huge difference comes in at 2048x1536, and not at 1600x1200.

A little immature benchmark don't you say? The test we saw for Crossfire weren't exactly indepth, so oh well...

I don't get why anyone's dissing Crossfire. The only thing stupid about it is that it's late. IF it's stupid you should be bashing the crap out of NVidia SLI as well because in all possible ways, its inferior to Crossfire. So fanboys, please shut it.

YOu keep saying it is inferior but you are completely wrong. Crossfire edges a few percentage points of performance when compared to SLI. I would call these solutions very equal with the nod going to Crossfire.

YOu are posting like Crossfire is offering 90% gains over SLI when in reality, it is nor more than ~3-5%. In some cases SLI is better. I think it is safe to say that both companies have a solid solution.

So fanboys, please shut it.

So, remind me.... Why are you still posting?

Additionally, when people dont see Crossfire as valuable right now is because the cards you will be using. Yeah it is fast, however, SLIed 6800U's are fast as well, only with the 6800U's you get SM3, Soft Shadows, 32bit FP. It isn't the fact that crossfire is bad, it is no worse than SLI, however the difference lies in the cards that are being used.

-Kevin

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I'm impressed. :thumbsup:

I don't think there is much market for this after reading that review, here's why:

1. If you have a X850 already, you're going to buy a new motherboard, maybe PSU, and an expensive master card to get faster SM2 performance? In mid 2005? IIRC the X850 master was $550., these motherboards might be fairly high priced at first, and are basically beta boards. You could set yourself up with 7800GTs in a couple weeks for less, probably get the same performance. (and these aren't out either- we'll see which makes it first.

2. 6800U/SLI mobo owner: no compelling performance reason to switch

3. 7800GTX/SLI owner: downgrade

The real value of this will be shown with R520.

I agree with the rest but #1 is pretty lame, heres why.

You also need a new SLi board for two GT's as well. So take board and the "maybe PSU" out of the price equation for existing x850XTPE owner. He'll need one or both either way he goes.

x850XTPE Crossfire costs him = $550
7800GT Sli costs him = $800

$250 premium worth it? Will that scale with performance? Doubtful..should be about even with an edge to GT's, plus he does'nt have to go though trouble of selling existing card. Nice speed bump for him. Unachiviable by just getting one 7800GTX as a single card replacement. And a better value than GT Sli.

 

[SilverTrine]

A day late and a dollar short is the best way to describe crossfire. (actually a year late but that's not how the saying goes)

Most people bought SLI capable cards as some sort as hedge if they want to upgrade. Most people with the release of powerful cards like the 7800 recognize that single card solutions are going to outpace SLI cards sooner rather than later. So for the bulk of people SLI is simply a checkbox feature that will never be used.

Now ATi has their own multi-card checkbox feature. You cant really bitch at them for being late with it, as most sane people havent even used SLI yet. If everyone and their dog had SLI in their box then maybe ATi deserves some scorn for being late.

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Compare % increase over 1 card and you'll see Crossfire gives more % boost than SLI. Anand points that out so you can compare the two technologies and not deal with 2 cards...

I'll take you up on that.

Doom3 34%-SLI 43%-Crossfire
Doom3 4x 82%-SLI 71%-Crossfire
EQII 1%-SLI 2%-Crossfire
HL2 22%-SLI 11%-Crossfire
HL2 4x 68%-SLI 30%-Crossfire
SplinterCell 89%-SLI 82%Crossfire
SplinterCell 4x 34%-SLI 84%-Crossfire
UT2004 4%-SLI 6%-Crossfire

You were saying?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Wow. Nice job. I didn't even think the percentages deltas were that great. I thought (as i said) Crossfire edged out 3-5% each time. But looking at your computations, it would seem that the graph is more like this: ~~~~~~~ Even with the nod going to SLI instead. Granted Crossfire is in its early stages.

-Kevin

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: SilverTrine

A day late and a dollar short is the best way to describe crossfire. (actually a year late but that's not how the saying goes)

Most people bought SLI capable cards as some sort as hedge if they want to upgrade. Most people with the release of powerful cards like the 7800 recognize that single card solutions are going to outpace SLI cards sooner rather than later. So for the bulk of people SLI is simply a checkbox feature that will never be used.

Now ATi has their own multi-card checkbox feature. You cant really bitch at them for being late with it, as most sane people havent even used SLI yet. If everyone and their dog had SLI in their box then maybe ATi deserves some scorn for being late.

I'm not sure really what you were trying to say there but I was just pointing out the market realities.. In almost everyway nVs on top for those "insane" DC users.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: trinibwoy

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Compare % increase over 1 card and you'll see Crossfire gives more % boost than SLI. Anand points that out so you can compare the two technologies and not deal with 2 cards...

I take you up on that.

Doom3 35%-SLI 42%-Crossfire
Doom3 4x 83%-SLI 73%-Crossfire
EQII 0%-SLI 0%-Crossfire
HL2 22%-SLI 11%-Crossfire
HL2 4x 67%-SLI 30%-Crossfire
SplinterCell 90%-SLI 84%-Crossfire
SplinterCell 4x 35%-SLI 85%-Crossfire
UT2004 4%-SLI 6%-Crossfire

You were saying?

See, if DLeRium hadn't said anything, and provoked trinibwoy into actually doing the math, we would all still think Xfire did better than SLI. Nice job btw trinibwoy, and thank you DLeRium!!! Talk about yer backfires.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
Once that R520 is out we can compare properly. Right now Nvidia is using SM3.0 while ATi is using SM1.1 or SM2.0 (not sure). The next gen ATi cards will support SM3.0.

ATI has supported SM1.4 since the 8500, (this includes their 9000s on up). So if it isn't SM2, its SM1.4.

Its part of the reason why a GeForce 5200 wont even run BattleField 2, because it doesn't support at least SM1.4 (or DX8.1) and a Radeon 8500/9000/9100/9200 will.

Although it took long enough for it to happen, the 8500 came out it seems like forever ago, nVidia didn't really make much of a "mistake" not including the support in their GeForce 4 Ti lineup. Although a Ti 4600 should be powerful enough to run BF2, it simply doesn't support it and thus won't run at all.

All the hooplah around SM3 is pretty much the same. By the time it would become requirement to run it, even the 6800U would most likely be of minimum recomendation.

Although people who might actually invest in a Crossfire X850 would probably be real fools because while 2 Ti 4600's in a sort of SLI should certainly have the power to run a game like BF2, they simply wouldn't be able to do it.

However, if someone can throw down the money for a mutli card setup even just once, they should be well off enough to upgrade when needed if not long before needing to actually upgrade.

With so many choices and paths to take, it doesn't seem like there is any clear cut "wrong or right"

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

YOu keep saying it is inferior but you are completely wrong. Crossfire edges a few percentage points of performance when compared to SLI. I would call these solutions very equal with the nod going to Crossfire.

YOu are posting like Crossfire is offering 90% gains over SLI when in reality, it is nor more than ~3-5%. In some cases SLI is better. I think it is safe to say that both companies have a solid solution.

Or maybe you're just interpreting it that way. I'm looking at the graphs, and I'm saying Crossfire can give more boosts than SLI (in some cases, but not all), and so don't put words in my mouth.

Yes both companies have a solid solution. That's what I've been saying repeatedly. What I don't understand is people BASHING Crossfire. I think SLI is a perfectly good solution, but if I had to pick between the two I would pick Crossfire (all other things being equal like the ATI board isn't a POS)

 

[Gamingphreek]

Yes both companies have a solid solution. That's what I've been saying repeatedly.

BS

its inferior to Crossfire.

That isn't remotely close to being a solid solution.

Or maybe you're just interpreting it that way. I'm looking at the graphs, and I'm saying Crossfire can give more boosts than SLI (in some cases, but not all), and so don't put words in my mouth.

No one put words in your mouth. He quoted what you typed and proved you wrong. At any rate, SLI can give more boost than Crossfire ("in some cases, but not all). Stop trying to weasel your way out of your mistake. You were proven wrong.

Finally, no one said that Crossfire was a POS. People have simply posted it may be too late for it, and it isn't a viable solution because of the cards that comprise the Crossfire solution.

-Kevin

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
See, if DLeRium hadn't said anything, and provoked trinibwoy into actually doing the math, we would all still think Xfire did better than SLI. Nice job btw trinibwoy, and thank you DLeRium!!! Talk about yer backfires.

No problem. I was happy for the excuse not to do any real work

 

[Keysplayr]

Yah, Rollo kind of said it best with Crossfire being DOA until R520 gets here.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Ok KEVIN (gee what a beautiful signature), I'm not weaseling my way out. I acknowledged his data and I showed I acknowledge it. I just happened to read the compare the first 2 benches for Crossfire and SLI. Ok, so I'm sorry I didnt LINE THEM UP, but I just happened to to see the D3 and EQ2 benches first...

BS

Ok so they don't have a solid solution. You said they do, I agreed, then you said BS. Ok, fine be like that bitch.

Let's see, we see people arguing about whether Crossfire is even a viable solution, etc, etc that buying 2 cards is stupid, what not. Then you should be able to say the same about SLI.

No one put words in your mouth. He quoted what you typed and proved you wrong. At any rate, SLI can give more boost than Crossfire ("in some cases, but not all). Stop trying to weasel your way out of your mistake. You were proven wrong.

Yes, you were the one making numbers up like 90%. I never said such things. When I use the word BETTER, it doesn't mean 90%.

Wow all you do is like surf video forums all day and try to reject what people say... GG money.

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: DLeRiumYes both companies have a solid solution. That's what I've been saying repeatedly. What I don't understand is people BASHING Crossfire. I think SLI is a perfectly good solution, but if I had to pick between the two I would pick Crossfire (all other things being equal like the ATI board isn't a POS)

You would pick Crossfire based on what? It's not yet available and the best we have is a buggy preview of a few games. Granted, it does show very good potential and may evolve into a superior solution but in the meanwhile it would be easier for everybody if you just admit that you have no intention of trying to actually understand the technology or the facts and will blindly espouse your opinions based on whims. That way nobody would have to waste their time responding to you.

 

[SilverTrine]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: SilverTrine

A day late and a dollar short is the best way to describe crossfire. (actually a year late but that's not how the saying goes)

Most people bought SLI capable cards as some sort as hedge if they want to upgrade. Most people with the release of powerful cards like the 7800 recognize that single card solutions are going to outpace SLI cards sooner rather than later. So for the bulk of people SLI is simply a checkbox feature that will never be used.

Now ATi has their own multi-card checkbox feature. You cant really bitch at them for being late with it, as most sane people havent even used SLI yet. If everyone and their dog had SLI in their box then maybe ATi deserves some scorn for being late.

I'm not sure really what you were trying to say there but I was just pointing out the market realities.. In almost everyway nVs on top for those "insane" DC users.

Reading comprehension problems on top of being incomprehensible oh dear.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Let's see, we see people arguing about whether Crossfire is even a viable solution, etc, etc that buying 2 cards is stupid, what not. Then you should be able to say the same about SLI.

IT is not Crossfires problem!!!!

The two cards that they are "Crossfiring" do not posses the features that a person would want in a ~$1000 gaming system. Until R520 comes out buying another X8xx card will only get you more performance without some of the more advanced features. If you are fine with that....ok, nothing against you. However, most people who invest in an expensive gaming system want all there features along with the performance, not just all the performance.

Yes, you were the one making numbers up like 90%. I never said such things. When I use the word BETTER, it doesn't mean 90%.

Wow all you do is like surf video forums all day and try to reject what people say... GG money.

I said you are acting like. I never said that you posted that number. Stop trying make me appear to be wrong. It isn't working.

-Kevin

 

[nitromullet]

A little immature benchmark don't you say? The test we saw for Crossfire weren't exactly indepth, so oh well...

So, when you were making a point (which proved to be wrong), the benchmarks were valid, but when I raise a question about the methodolgy, the benchmarks are "immature"? I'll certainly concede that the benchmarks may be a bit premature and not completely thorough, since that was my original point anyway. I'm actually just curious what the delta will be at higher resolutions... I play at 1680x1050, which is usually more taxing than 1600x1200 because of the greater FOV, so higher res benchmarks interest me. It's not just a point in a debate...

single R520 will outperform this setup.

I would not bet too much on that... It may happen, but it was not the case for 7800GTX vs. 6800Ultra SLI in all cases. I contend that the primary reason that both ATI and NVIDIA developed CrossFire/SLI is because they both knew that their next gen parts would be slower than two previous gen cards. If that were not the case, the R&D cost would not be worth it because no one would buy the dual set up. Honestly, I wasnt't convinced of this myself until ATI announced Xfire... That was confirmation (for me) that they didn't believe that they could top 6800Ulltra SLI with a single card. Sure, R520 may win a few benchmarks over dual X850XTPE's/6800Ultras, but I wouldn't expect it to be a clean sweep.

...Of course, XFire R520's looks like it's going to be badass.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: SilverTrine

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: SilverTrine

A day late and a dollar short is the best way to describe crossfire. (actually a year late but that's not how the saying goes)

Most people bought SLI capable cards as some sort as hedge if they want to upgrade. Most people with the release of powerful cards like the 7800 recognize that single card solutions are going to outpace SLI cards sooner rather than later. So for the bulk of people SLI is simply a checkbox feature that will never be used.

Now ATi has their own multi-card checkbox feature. You cant really bitch at them for being late with it, as most sane people havent even used SLI yet. If everyone and their dog had SLI in their box then maybe ATi deserves some scorn for being late.

I'm not sure really what you were trying to say there but I was just pointing out the market realities.. In almost everyway nVs on top for those "insane" DC users.

Reading comprehension problems on top of being incomprehensible oh dear.

It's been a long time since I took the GRE but my 800 verbal disagrees with that..granted you don't use it you lose it so can you explain WTF you were talking about like you're talking to a 6th grader.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Yet, when they test out CrossFire, the max res is 1600x1200... Just seems odd to me. Even between the 6800Ultras and the 7800GTXes in SLI is the huge difference comes in at 2048x1536, and not at 1600x1200.

A little immature benchmark don't you say? The test we saw for Crossfire weren't exactly indepth, so oh well...

I don't get why anyone's dissing Crossfire. The only thing stupid about it is that it's late. IF it's stupid you should be bashing the crap out of NVidia SLI as well because in all possible ways, its inferior to Crossfire. So fanboys, please shut it.

Stop trying make me appear to be wrong. It isn't working.

-Kevin

Kevin's right... This not a matter of him misinterpreting what you are saying... It is a matter of you not remembering your slanted comments correctly. Making the mistake is fine... Trying to make it look like Kevin is wrong makes you come off as an asshole. You're probably not really an asshole, so just admit that you said SLI was inferior to Xfire in all possible ways and we can move on.

 

[Ackmed]

And after all that math, Crossfire is faster in almost every game, at almost every setting. Thats not using the fastest ATI card.. and using the fastest NV card.

But what does it really matter? It seems pretty silly to SLI any 6800 series, or Crossfire the X850XT cards at this time. The 7800GTX is afar better choice than either.