Anand's Conroe article up and running

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
Long story short, someone overclocking an E6600 to 4 ghz with the 9x multiplier will be getting much better performance when encoding video versus someone overclocking an E6800 to 4 ghz with a higher multiplier. However, dropping to a chip with a lower multiplier than the E6600 makes no sense due to the loss of performance from having half the l2 cache of the E6600.

This probably also means that true performance freaks will prefer Conroe over Merom for overclocking unless Merom can reach higher clockspeeds overall.

I would argue the toss. There is an average of 2.4% from 1066 -> 1333MHz FSB, and 3.x% (can't remember exactly) for the cache.
Add in the cheaper price of the 2mb cache models, and the extra FSB you need to match speed, and the extra performance the cache gives you (depending on the programs you may be using), may not be worth it in terms of price/performance. But that assumes you can get the FSB high enough with a lower multi CPU.

 

[teiresias]

Does anyone know how much using DDR with a Core 2 Duo processor (on a mobo that supports such) would affect the performance seen here?

I have the ubiquitous Asrock 939Dual mobo, but was considering getting the VSTA board that will support Conroe and DDR and AGP (I still refuse to get rid of my AGP card at this point), but was unsure of the performance ramifications of doing so. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding and while the mobo will support DDR, it won't when using a Core 2 Duo so I'd still need to shell out for DDR2?

 

[jlbenedict]

damn... if only I got lucky, and my Intel Bad Axe would run one of these.

That E6600 is pure bliss

 

[classy]

Hmmm Anands review is totally different from like 8 others. and I would like to know how he got those oc numbers? No where has anyone else been able to clock beyond 3.46 stable. Is he using the samples in this review and not retail? The gaming numbers are huge, but other sites show an increase, but not like in this review.

 

[imported_Husky55]

One of the more interesting item in the review is the C/P (cost performance ratio) implied. With projected price cuts AMD can be very competitive particularly if Intel cannot supply enough retail processors for people who build they onw system i.e. most of this forum members. Price gauging will surely come in play if the demand and supply curve are skewed.

Although the E6600 is the sweet spot for Intel, X2 after price cuts will be very competitive for a budget or value system.

 

[Zim]

Originally posted by: Husky55
Although the E6600 is the sweet spot for Intel, X2 after price cuts will be very competitive for a budget or value system.

The X2 3800+ will be pitted against the E6300. For people who already have S939 hardware, the X2 will be the way to go, but for people building a budget system from scratch it might make more sense to go with the Conroe.

I'd really like to see an article on overclocking the E6300 versus the X2 3800+. I strongly suspect that there will be a lot of headroom with the value Conroes, although I'm not sure how overcloocking is achieved with these. I mean, is there a memory divider facility like with the AMD chips?

 

[imported_Husky55]

By the end of the month we should have a better idea of what we, end users can buy, besides a system from Dell or the likes.

I am really set to build a new Conroe system but if I have to wait until the end of the year, then AMD 65nm process processors will be shipping then the equation will again becomes very problematic.

I agree that the E6300 is a direct comparison to the X2-3800. I have had good luck with AMD so far.

Zim, I also have been using RMClock for the last couple years on my OC AMD rig. Great program.

 

[HopJokey]

Originally posted by: Zim

Originally posted by: Husky55
Although the E6600 is the sweet spot for Intel, X2 after price cuts will be very competitive for a budget or value system.

The X2 3800+ will be pitted against the E6300. For people who already have S939 hardware, the X2 will be the way to go, but for people building a budget system from scratch it might make more sense to go with the Conroe.

I'd really like to see an article on overclocking the E6300 versus the X2 3800+. I strongly suspect that there will be a lot of headroom with the value Conroes, although I'm not sure how overcloocking is achieved with these. I mean, is there a memory divider facility like with the AMD chips?

With high speed DDR2, you can run the memory divider close 1/1 or better.

For example, with DDR2 800, at stock speeds the E6300 (266 x 7 = 1.83Ghz) the memory to bus ratio is 3/2 (400/266). Lets say you overclock to 2.8Ghz (400 x 7), you can set the memory to bus ratio to be 1/1 with no problems.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: classy
Hmmm Anands review is totally different from like 8 others. and I would like to know how he got those oc numbers? No where has anyone else been able to clock beyond 3.46 stable. Is he using the samples in this review and not retail? The gaming numbers are huge, but other sites show an increase, but not like in this review.

They used a Tuniq cooler. They capped at 3.4Ghz with stock cooler.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: Duvie
Seems pretty good.....


I see great ocing but nowhere do they list the temps they got...It maybe th efact they are running the Asus i975x mobo that is widely considered to be off 15-20 degrees....

The Asus P5W is way off when comparing temps to the other boards. The temps remained around 48c to 52C at full load with the Tuniq during overclocking. We will have an additional article up next week on this subject.

HMM..people over at XS are seeing temps at 60-70C off)...so is your 48-52c corrected temps

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Lonyo


I would argue the toss. There is an average of 2.4% from 1066 -> 1333MHz FSB, and 3.x% (can't remember exactly) for the cache.
Add in the cheaper price of the 2mb cache models, and the extra FSB you need to match speed, and the extra performance the cache gives you (depending on the programs you may be using), may not be worth it in terms of price/performance. But that assumes you can get the FSB high enough with a lower multi CPU.

Right, but that's an average derived from several different benchmarks. I'm talking video encoding here (specifically DivX 6.1). That's where the greatest performance difference emerged.

When using DivX 6.1, consider the following three imaginary overclocks

E6300: 4 ghz, 7x571.4(yikes!)
E6600: 4 ghz, 9x444.4
Processor X, an E6600 with only 2 megs of l2 cache

Processor X is here as a baseline to show how much faster the E6300 is than the E6600 at the same clock not taking l2 cache into account and to show how much faster the E6600 is than the E6300 at the same clock not taking FSB speeds into account.

We assume that Core 2 gains 1% in performance advantage in DivX 6.1 per 35.6 mhz of effective FSB speed (per 8.9 mhz of actual). This is based on a 7.5% advantage in DivX when running 266 mhz (66 actual) faster on the FSB while maintaining the same CPU and memory clocks. Based on this assumption, the E6300 runnin with an actual FSB 127 mhz faster than the E6600 at the same clock speed (4 ghz) and 127 mhz faster than Processor X at the same clock speed (4 ghz) should gain an approximate 14.3% performance boost (at least over Processor X anyway).

We also assume, based on Anandtech's numbers, that moving from 2 megs to 4 megs of l2 cache on Core 2 yields at 10% performance boost under DivX 6.1

So an E6300 at 4 ghz should be equal to Processor X at 4.6 ghz (approx)

In contrast, an E6600 at 4 ghz should be equal to Processor X at 4400 ghz (approx)

Though some of my assumptions may be well off-the-mark, it looks like an E6300 at 4 ghz would perform better in DivX 6.1 than an E6600 at the same clock speed.

But this is only for DivX.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Zim
I'd really like to see an article on overclocking the E6300 versus the X2 3800+. I strongly suspect that there will be a lot of headroom with the value Conroes, although I'm not sure how overcloocking is achieved with these. I mean, is there a memory divider facility like with the AMD chips?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6300_11.html

They ended up being MB limited.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Ughhh I don't like how we don't have an E6400 in here. You see a huge gap between the 6600 and 6300. I think the 6400 would fit right in between the 4600 and 5000+. Sub $300 chip killing an X2 4600+? Sounds good to me.

 

[Baked]

I wanna buy Anand's E6600.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
One thing we should all take from this review is the effect of a higher FSB on Conroe's performance. If you look at this page of the review:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6

you can see that DivX 6.1 runs %7.5 faster with a 1333 mhz FSB than with a 1066 mhz FSB at the same CPU clock and similar memory clocks.

What this should tell all the overclockers out there is that you want to max your chip out with the lowest possible multiplier for maximum performance, ESPECIALLY when it comes to video encoding. DivX 6.1 also seems to get a healthy boost from 4 megs of l2 cache vs 2 megs according to this page of Anandtech's article:
<snip>

Agreed. Oh, AMD isn't selling 1MB cache/core X2's anymore, either. Nice move, guys. All their AM2 models in the channel (3800, 4000, 4200, 4600 and 5000) are 512K per core. It helps economize on fab space, but it's another 2-10% of performance given away for basically nothing. Without a huge price break I can't see anyone building an AM2 platform when the E6600 is ~ $300. And I say this as an AMD s939 user.

If I was doing a system build soon it would be no contest. Intel's gonna eat them for the next year or so. But they'll be back. Ain't competition wonderful?

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: Zim

Originally posted by: Husky55
Although the E6600 is the sweet spot for Intel, X2 after price cuts will be very competitive for a budget or value system.

The X2 3800+ will be pitted against the E6300. For people who already have S939 hardware, the X2 will be the way to go, but for people building a budget system from scratch it might make more sense to go with the Conroe.

I'd really like to see an article on overclocking the E6300 versus the X2 3800+. I strongly suspect that there will be a lot of headroom with the value Conroes, although I'm not sure how overcloocking is achieved with these. I mean, is there a memory divider facility like with the AMD chips?

They've discontinued all of their s939 CPUs without a price cut. So better hurry if you want to get one. Else it'll be EBay. Frankly, I think that stinks. I was hoping for a $300 x2 4600+ or something like that.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Originally posted by: Zim

Originally posted by: Husky55
Although the E6600 is the sweet spot for Intel, X2 after price cuts will be very competitive for a budget or value system.

The X2 3800+ will be pitted against the E6300. For people who already have S939 hardware, the X2 will be the way to go, but for people building a budget system from scratch it might make more sense to go with the Conroe.

I'd really like to see an article on overclocking the E6300 versus the X2 3800+. I strongly suspect that there will be a lot of headroom with the value Conroes, although I'm not sure how overcloocking is achieved with these. I mean, is there a memory divider facility like with the AMD chips?

They've discontinued all of their s939 CPUs without a price cut. So better hurry if you want to get one. Else it'll be EBay. Frankly, I think that stinks. I was hoping for a $300 x2 4600+ or something like that.

Oh really? They have discontinued all Socket 939 Dual Cores? Wow, is there a link?

 

[Zim]

One thing that struck me too, if Intel are selling a dual core at around $150, it will basically wipe all single core cpus off the map. Why would anyone buy an Athlon 64 3200+, for instance, for anything other than a small file server? Same for notebooks. You can get a dual core Yonah notebook for $600 so why would anyone be satisfied with a single core Turion? Intel will be taking a huge whack out of AMD's market.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: Zim
One thing that struck me too, if Intel are selling a dual core at around $150, it will basically wipe all single core cpus off the map. Why would anyone buy an Athlon 64 3200+, for instance, for anything other than a small file server? Same for notebooks. You can get a dual core Yonah notebook for $600 so why would anyone be satisfied with a single core Turion? Intel will be taking a huge whack out of AMD's market.

Single Core will enter the Sub 100US Market. With the Celeron's toping out at 60US there leave some room for a few models of Single Core.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Here it is (managed to dig it up)

Also from the Inq, about 2x1MB CPUs:

AMD X2 2x1MB chips are out there

Cancelled? right?

By Joshua Walrath: Tuesday 11 July 2006, 10:32

SOME VERY ASTUTE readers have noticed that many online shops are showing the 2x1MB AMD Athlon X2 AM2 variants in stock, well after they were supposed to be cancelled.
Has AMD changed its mind? Since I did in fact take a good look around and saw some impressive stock of these parts, I thought I would go straight to the source.

I pinged my friend Damon Muzny of AMD, and after some small talk and pleasant chatter I got to the meat of the matter. Why, even after all the talk about getting rid of the 2x1MB X2s, are there so many in stock?

For better or for worse, here was Damon?s response. And I quote: "As for the 1MBx2 L2 parts, they were announced and we did ship some. We're simplifying our line up, but there are still some out there. They were discontinued at the end of the quarter."

Well, there it is. Last quarter ended June 30. AMD is continuing along its path of simplification, and though it announced these parts, it is still going to discontinue them.

Not huge news mind, but for those that want to jump on a X2 with 1MB of L2 per core, then the time to buy is now. In a month?s time, these rare CPUs will be gone. µ

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: Zim
One thing that struck me too, if Intel are selling a dual core at around $150, it will basically wipe all single core cpus off the map. Why would anyone buy an Athlon 64 3200+, for instance, for anything other than a small file server? Same for notebooks. You can get a dual core Yonah notebook for $600 so why would anyone be satisfied with a single core Turion? Intel will be taking a huge whack out of AMD's market.

Single Core will enter the Sub 100US Market. With the Celeron's toping out at 60US there leave some room for a few models of Single Core.

AMD's single core has a crap@$$ market right now. CUT PRICES DAMNIT. Intel's prices are so low, there is no point in going AMD single core. I mean sure you might get faster single core performance, but when you can dual core for the same price, why not?

 

[lopri]

I honestly thought sometimes I was seeing Mr. Kyle's (who I believe to be so much lacking when it comes to intelligence, compared to Anand) mirror image while reading this review, which was very surprising. I'm positive that the numbers from both sites (AT and HardOCP) are accurate but in this article, Anand's trying to influence readers with his own evaluation. In the past Anand usually steps back abit off something controvertial and throw some wits here and there, or cast his opinions cautiously. But in this review, he makes so many generalized claims, some of which are quite risky, IMO. For example,

At default voltage the X6800 reached a stable 3.6GHz (13 x277). This is a 23% overclock from the stock 2.93GHz speed at stock voltage. It is also an important overclocking result, since it implies Intel could easily release a 3.46GHz or 3.6GHz Core 2 processor tomorrow if they chose to.

.

He even goes on to imply the Extreme Edition might actually be worth $1K.

AnandTech never recommends the fastest chip you can buy as a good value choice, but X6800 does bring some advantages to the table. It is the only Conroe that is completely unlocked. This allows settings like 266(stock FSB)x15 for 4.0GHz, settings that keep other components in the system at stock speed. This can only be achieved with the X6800 - other Core 2 Duo chips are hard-locked - and for some that feature will justify buying an X6800 at $999.

While this review is by far my favorite Core 2 Duo review on the net, I'm somewhat curious with the change of Anand's style.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: Zim
One thing that struck me too, if Intel are selling a dual core at around $150, it will basically wipe all single core cpus off the map. Why would anyone buy an Athlon 64 3200+, for instance, for anything other than a small file server? Same for notebooks. You can get a dual core Yonah notebook for $600 so why would anyone be satisfied with a single core Turion? Intel will be taking a huge whack out of AMD's market.

Single Core will enter the Sub 100US Market. With the Celeron's toping out at 60US there leave some room for a few models of Single Core.

AMD's single core has a crap@$$ market right now. CUT PRICES DAMNIT. Intel's prices are so low, there is no point in going AMD single core. I mean sure you might get faster single core performance, but when you can dual core for the same price, why not?

I was kinda refering to Intel and these gems.

Pentium 4 524 64US.
Pentium 4 531 74US
Pentium 4 541 84US

Above that you will have Dual Core Pentium D 805 93US.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: classy
Hmmm Anands review is totally different from like 8 others. and I would like to know how he got those oc numbers? No where has anyone else been able to clock beyond 3.46 stable. Is he using the samples in this review and not retail? The gaming numbers are huge, but other sites show an increase, but not like in this review.

We utilized the Asus P5W-DH board, some very good Corsair and OCZ memory, PCPower 850W power supply, the Tuniq Tower with the proper amount of paste, and a few prayers for the high overclocks, the supplied BadAxe board from Intel had issues just reaching the 3.46GHz level. What we showed was benchmark stable, I am finding we are at 3.94GHz for dual prime currently and need a little more MCH voltage (not available) to get back up to 4GHz at this time.
Honestly, with the right voltages and a nice cool room, the high end air coolers are more than enough for this chip up to the 3.8GHZ level and to 4GHz short term. These high end air coolers are better than a couple of low end water cooling setups we tried. Anything above 3.7GHz, I would invest in a really good liquid cooling system to ensure the life of your CPU. Our chips were the luck of the draw, until we receive the B2 stepping 6 retail shipping chips, it will be difficult to determine if this overclock pattern will be widespread or not.
Also, proper memory and memory settings will make a significant performance difference on this platform when overclocking. Our E6600 will actually post at 4.2GHz, the issue is we run out board voltage options in order to take advantage of this CPU. The amazing part about our 2.93GHz CPUs, set the Vcore to auto, keep the memory within spec, tune the bios, and you can get up to 3.6GHz on the Asus board currently.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: Gary Key
We utilized the Asus P5W-DH board, some very good Corsair and OCZ memory, PCPower 850W power supply, the Tuniq Tower with the proper amount of paste, and a few prayers for the high overclocks, the supplied BadAxe board from Intel had issues just reaching the 3.46GHz level. What we showed was benchmark stable, I am finding we are at 3.94GHz for dual prime currently and need a little more MCH voltage (not available) to get back up to 4GHz at this time.
Honestly, with the right voltages and a nice cool room, the high end air coolers are more than enough for this chip up to the 3.8GHZ level and to 4GHz short term. These high end air coolers are better than a couple of low end water cooling setups we tried. Anything above 3.7GHz, I would invest in a really good liquid cooling system to ensure the life of your CPU. Our chips were the luck of the draw, until we receive the B2 stepping 6 retail shipping chips, it will be difficult to determine if this overclock pattern will be widespread or not.
Also, proper memory and memory settings will make a significant performance difference on this platform when overclocking. Our E6600 will actually post at 4.2GHz, the issue is we run out board voltage options in order to take advantage of this CPU. The amazing part about our 2.93GHz CPUs, set the Vcore to auto, keep the memory within spec, tune the bios, and you can get up to 3.6GHz on the Asus board currently.

Sheesh. I think Anand was just simply blown away by the results he was getting. I don't think his style was generalizing at all. These numbers on air, on practically a beta platform, are nothing short of astounding.

Maybe sometime next year I'll get a Shuttle for Conroe.