Ben, In this post and others (the level of compression in AQ3) you seem to be implying that Anandtech has doctored the screenshots, or am I reading you wrong?
Doctored no, screwed up yes. Using a different level of compression on JPEGs can seriously impact the quality of the image, and for the screenshots you posted something is screwed up. ATi does not support SSAA, but that is what that screenshot is showing in terms of the textures. Possible ways this could have happened? If the image was accidentally resized(scaled up) and then fixed it would have the same effect. I would certainly be interested in hearing comments from the reviewers, but they don't answer me(Evan is the only one I can think of that ever has). They have made numerous screw ups in the past, and due to their ability to screw up for and against the different companies in the same review I don't see it as doctoring of anything, just mistakes. Best way to handle screenshots if you have the bandwith is to show the JPEGs and then allow users to download the original bmps or at least pngs so they can better see for themselves the exact comparison. ATi and nV are quite different in their gamma settings, it is
very easy to try your @ss off to show users what the end image looked like and screw it up in the process. There are a slew of ways that you can hose screenshots with the best of intentions. In reality if you simply take screenshots and post them
exactly how they are you will mislead people considerably in numerous games(you still have a nV board right? Take a Q3 screenshot using the in game method, F11 IIRC, and one with PrintScreen in the exact same spot, without moving back to back and compare them, huge difference, the in game method gives you what you see on screen, the PrintScreen you have trouble making out).
You will go on about that Half-Life bug till eternity.
Hehe, d@mn straight
Seriously, the thing that bothered me the most about that situation was that there was noone saying that any of these bugs existed. I read post after post about how ATi's drivers were incredible, better then nVidia's. I spend a couple hundred and I find out that they were way the hell off the mark, and even then numerous people attempted to deny the bugs existed
after ATi said they did. Many of these same people are the ones jumping over anything nV does with a cheater label.
Its also interesting how you also have pointed out all the rendering imperfections on ATi cards though the years (most of which no one else complained about)
I have done that a couple times, mainly when I hear about how 'perfect' ATi's drivers are.
and have nothing to say about nVidia not rendering fog, lighting, shadows in games.
Can someone point me to them? I have a rather extensive collection of games here, and I end up being told that they don't show up in any of the titles I have. Combine this with the raving about ATi's drivers and the less then objective assesment of nV by these same people and, you get the picture
I was planning on picking up a 5900FX until I heard about all the driver issues. Because of them I haven't(which I have stated previously, although I don't recall in which thread). In the long run I think its better as now the big 2 have been delayed and it looks like NV40/R390 will be here before then, and every game I'm playing is going quite nicely(well, I could stand a higher res in Halo). Driver issues or potential driver issues are a big deal to me, I don't try and deny that nV has any problems with their drivers, that is a big difference between myself and others. I do ask for examples of them from time to time, and I've even looked for some of the games they show up in for the sole purpose of seeing if I run in to them(in the bargain bin, not going to waste $50 to see a bug
IGI was one of them IIRC).
If you are going to criticize image quality, please do so objectively instead of doing it one sided.
I have stated numerous times that ATi has clearly superior edge AA to nVidia, what else am I supposed to comment on? nV has superior texture filtering, ATi has superior AA. When you calibrate them, they both have extremely close color calibration. ATi is a bit more agressive with their LOD(although that is adjustable).
In debate terms, first you have to have something to debate about. You can talk about the bugs in nVidia's drivers so we can talk about the finer points on the IQ level, but how am I supposed to so much as discuss IQ with people that say and glitch is a clear cheat? You can't have a reasonable discussion if the participants aren't able to agree on basics.
How many years will you put nVidia in the penalty box for these errors? Not as many as ATi I'm sure.
If they have bugs that hard lock my system or proves to be otherwise defective then the penalty is five years(dead serious- by that I mean I won't spend another cent on their products for myself if they will see any of it). Creative Labs is in my box now, as is Abit, Sony, RCA, Philips, Eidos and Bethesda off the top of my head.
Edit-
D@mnit, you edited your post while I was typing mine
As far as the cheating cr@p goes, I think any mfgr should be ashamed to have done it. This includes ATi (Quack) or the current nVidia situation which seems to be improving withe the 52.xx series drivers.
I agree. For nV, I think the overwhelming majority of 'cheats' were bugs. Compilers are significantly more complex then typical drivers.
All of this has actually been good in a way. It has forced the review sites to focus on IQ instead of just running a benchmark and posting the results with not even a mention of IQ. People are much more cognizant of image quality as well as FPS now. It has also resulted in a broader suite of game tests instead of the "Top 3" well known benches that can have specific optimizations.
Absolutely agree. I think that review sites need to impove on their methodology for IQ comparisons considerably, although it is obviously much better then it used to be. I also am very pleased to see expanded benches being used, even if I take some issue with how they do it sometimes(minor quibble, why did the use the light cycle section of Tron for a bench, the game is a FPS, the LC is a mini game). If each site pickes fifteen to twenty games, and they only have five of them shared between them(you obviously still need the big3) then everyone will be forced to optimize their general drivers moreso then for a particular set of games.
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