Agreed Red Dawn. It is a pay it forward mentality. The government ate a big amount of $$ when it first started paying out to people, those who had never contributed, and then the revenue pays for the old folks from there on out.
Who manages all these accounts? Whats the overhead % (like I said befpre the SS program operates at 2%). When an investment fails, who needs that social security the most? the person who just lost their social security in that stock investment.
The "average" person does not have the investment savvy nor the financial security to do what you suggest. The goal is to prevent suffering, not buy people Florida retirement cottages.
Got any facts to back this up?
It isn't about coming out ahead!@!@#!#@ Coming out ahead is when people live to be very old. PEOPLE GET VARYING AMOUNTS OF SOCIAL SECURITY PAYOUT BASED ON WHAT THEY PUT IN.
An OMB study in 98 found that w/o SS 61% of unmarried elderly beneficiaries and 41% of married ones would have been in poverty, but counting their SS benefits, 16% and 3% respectively were in poverty.
- Mar 20, 2000
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first, lots of people manage their own accounts. second, it could still be government managed. third, the goal of preventing suffering could be achieved AND everyone could come out ahead on the financial aspect of it.
i don't know why people are against moving the system to fully-funded. pay it as you go only works when the rate of population change is higher than the rate of interest paid out.
again, compound interest > social security.
government mandated savings account > the fscked system we have now.
- Mar 20, 2000
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go run the numbers in excel yourself. i'll wait.
coming out ahead is what happens when you get a larger check each month because the system is fully funded rather than pay as you go
and with a fully funded system those percentages would be better.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
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LOL who's the little bitch? Maybe the old man getting pissy?
It probably ain't me, especially considering I'm not even in the right country to be paying S.S. I'm just amused by the leap to a failed system's defence with the justification because, "It's law! They have to!"
Any facts of my own? Run what in Excel? You aren't making any sense.
Clearly you are getting your idea from some sort of text, politician, think tank, etc... so rather than saying "run the numbers in excel for yourself", why don't you just send me some of your sources and I can read what they say.
The biggest problem with social security has been the pervasive attitude throughout the past few decades that it's okay to "borrow" from SS, without ever paying back into it. The program was not well thought out to begin with (pay into it for 5 years minimum, then retire and collect for 25? exactly HOW is that supposed to stay solvent???), then it has been mismanaged throughout most of it's existance. Adding the social disability act to SS pretty much put the cover on the coffin, especially as it then took congress years to close up all the foolish loopholes they'd left in the law (do some research, and you'll find out about prisoners in federal penitenturies that collected monthly disability checks due to the fact that they were in prison for committing, say, armed robbery....which was done to support their drug habit....which was caused by their addiction....which is a disability!!).
There's no way that SS can be magically "fixed" now, without a massive influx of funds into it. I myself, at 44 years old, expect to get next to nothing out of SS, even though every year they send me a nice letter telling me how much I'm going to get if I'll only wait to collect on it. If I do collect anything from SS, I expect it will provide me with beer and pretzels....maybe!! Anyone in the generation before me, start socking money away NOW for your retirement, and max out your contributions every year, if you're able.
As far as who acts more like they're entitled to free handouts? Depends on who you talk to, imho. Definitely, the lower class seems to have that mindset (just look at the aftermath of Katrina last year, when thousands of residents of NOLA sat there, expecting SOMEONE (they really didn't care who) to take care of their needs, then became angry and abusive when the assistance finally showed up), though I won't go so far as to say that every person in the lower class acts that way, since I know better (and know poor folks that expect nothing to be handed to them). Old folks, for the most part, are entitled to whatever they can get their hands on. If you don't like that, age another 40 years, and then tell me how you feel. The middle aged generation seems most willing to work for what they want, though they sometimes feel bewildered at some of the changes that have happened in the industry lately (let's face it, the idea of working for the same company for 40 years, like our fathers and grandfathers did, seems to be long gone). The younger generation just seems to be spoiled, more than anything. They had it all growing up, without much in the way of having to earn any of it. Of course, there's exceptions to every point I've made, but I blame my own generation for the "gotta have it now, screw the cost" attitude that the 20-somethings have now. It's sad that, in order to achieve the status that their parents spent 20+ years to attain, that their kids will go so heavily into debt, with a high probability of failure, to get the same thing.
My advice for anyone from teenagers to 30 years old? Screw keeping up with the Jones's, screw having to have the latest, greatest toys and the biggest house and the newest car, cinch your belt a bit tighter, live within your means, invest heavily in your retirement, and by the time you're my age, you'll be enjoying a much better quality of living than your parents ever dreamed of having.
There's no way that SS can be magically "fixed" now, without a massive influx of funds into it. I myself, at 44 years old, expect to get next to nothing out of SS, even though every year they send me a nice letter telling me how much I'm going to get if I'll only wait to collect on it. If I do collect anything from SS, I expect it will provide me with beer and pretzels....maybe!! Anyone in the generation before me, start socking money away NOW for your retirement, and max out your contributions every year, if you're able.
As far as who acts more like they're entitled to free handouts? Depends on who you talk to, imho. Definitely, the lower class seems to have that mindset (just look at the aftermath of Katrina last year, when thousands of residents of NOLA sat there, expecting SOMEONE (they really didn't care who) to take care of their needs, then became angry and abusive when the assistance finally showed up), though I won't go so far as to say that every person in the lower class acts that way, since I know better (and know poor folks that expect nothing to be handed to them). Old folks, for the most part, are entitled to whatever they can get their hands on. If you don't like that, age another 40 years, and then tell me how you feel. The middle aged generation seems most willing to work for what they want, though they sometimes feel bewildered at some of the changes that have happened in the industry lately (let's face it, the idea of working for the same company for 40 years, like our fathers and grandfathers did, seems to be long gone). The younger generation just seems to be spoiled, more than anything. They had it all growing up, without much in the way of having to earn any of it. Of course, there's exceptions to every point I've made, but I blame my own generation for the "gotta have it now, screw the cost" attitude that the 20-somethings have now. It's sad that, in order to achieve the status that their parents spent 20+ years to attain, that their kids will go so heavily into debt, with a high probability of failure, to get the same thing.
My advice for anyone from teenagers to 30 years old? Screw keeping up with the Jones's, screw having to have the latest, greatest toys and the biggest house and the newest car, cinch your belt a bit tighter, live within your means, invest heavily in your retirement, and by the time you're my age, you'll be enjoying a much better quality of living than your parents ever dreamed of having.
Money is not held, it is payed out from the budget. The budget includes people currently working paying a portion of their PAYROLL income to the government.
Odds are? You can't just go claiming sh!t like this when the government has been paying out 25% of its budget currently, and trillions of dollars over the past 70 years to people.
Everyone thinks they are special, even in the sense of being uniquely victimized.
Really? People manage their own accounts? "normal people"?
Why do the poorest 40% of Americans owe more in debt than they own, including all of their assets?
Originally posted by: marvdmartian
The biggest problem with social security has been the pervasive attitude throughout the past few decades that it's okay to "borrow" from SS, without ever paying back into it. The program was not well thought out to begin with (pay into it for 5 years minimum, then retire and collect for 25? exactly HOW is that supposed to stay solvent???), then it has been mismanaged throughout most of it's existance. Adding the social disability act to SS pretty much put the cover on the coffin, especially as it then took congress years to close up all the foolish loopholes they'd left in the law (do some research, and you'll find out about prisoners in federal penitenturies that collected monthly disability checks due to the fact that they were in prison for committing, say, armed robbery....which was done to support their drug habit....which was caused by their addiction....which is a disability!!).
There's no way that SS can be magically "fixed" now, without a massive influx of funds into it. I myself, at 44 years old, expect to get next to nothing out of SS, even though every year they send me a nice letter telling me how much I'm going to get if I'll only wait to collect on it. If I do collect anything from SS, I expect it will provide me with beer and pretzels....maybe!! Anyone in the generation before me, start socking money away NOW for your retirement, and max out your contributions every year, if you're able.
As far as who acts more like they're entitled to free handouts? Depends on who you talk to, imho. Definitely, the lower class seems to have that mindset (just look at the aftermath of Katrina last year, when thousands of residents of NOLA sat there, expecting SOMEONE (they really didn't care who) to take care of their needs, then became angry and abusive when the assistance finally showed up), though I won't go so far as to say that every person in the lower class acts that way, since I know better (and know poor folks that expect nothing to be handed to them). Old folks, for the most part, are entitled to whatever they can get their hands on. If you don't like that, age another 40 years, and then tell me how you feel. The middle aged generation seems most willing to work for what they want, though they sometimes feel bewildered at some of the changes that have happened in the industry lately (let's face it, the idea of working for the same company for 40 years, like our fathers and grandfathers did, seems to be long gone). The younger generation just seems to be spoiled, more than anything. They had it all growing up, without much in the way of having to earn any of it. Of course, there's exceptions to every point I've made, but I blame my own generation for the "gotta have it now, screw the cost" attitude that the 20-somethings have now. It's sad that, in order to achieve the status that their parents spent 20+ years to attain, that their kids will go so heavily into debt, with a high probability of failure, to get the same thing.
My advice for anyone from teenagers to 30 years old? Screw keeping up with the Jones's, screw having to have the latest, greatest toys and the biggest house and the newest car, cinch your belt a bit tighter, live within your means, invest heavily in your retirement, and by the time you're my age, you'll be enjoying a much better quality of living than your parents ever dreamed of having.
I am replying to this based on your first paragraph only, I'll read the rest in a bit after this NU 4th quarter drive
...If payroll incomes of over 70K were included in social security, the program would not have any financial problems. Spending $ on wars hurts too, but that's all I'm saying on that front
lol ok everyone in their 20s, let's vote into law where we put in $5 and get back $10 from the next generation...that way we deserve it!
dr150
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2003
- 6,570
- 24
- 81
People with money have the largest sense of entitlement--regardless of age.
During the dot.com boom, twenty somethings were insufferable coming out of college with a "what can you do for me" mentality......very different than when I came out of an elite school jobless during the recession....
During the dot.com boom, twenty somethings were insufferable coming out of college with a "what can you do for me" mentality......very different than when I came out of an elite school jobless during the recession....
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