"AMD's role in Stealth Viral Marketing - Q&A" source ABT link inside

[Madcatatlas]

Originally Posted by SolMiester
Ive been a member here for years, and although I didnt see eye to eye with Mark for a long time, I have to say that this sub-forum has deteriorated greatly in the last 2 years to a 2 camp site.
I find it interesting that there are a number of posters, that put such an effort into denying the claims, as if they were a personal insult.

Still, there are a number of great other sub-forums here, so not all is lost!

I think its more that people dont like unsubstantiated bulls**t being posted for the sole purpose of stirring up trouble.

My opinion as well WelshBloke

 

[Dribble]

There's a difference between pretending made up specs are real, and promoting or rubbishing a product.
If we take Keys as an example of a focus group member, he doesn't post leaks etc as fact, he discusses them as rumours and talks with that caveat. he doesnt present them as fact.
The chiphell incident is about someone who pretended he knew specs, but was apparently lying.

Which is why I like Keys and like that way of working - Keys says upfront who he is so no hidden biases, it means he can't say any old rubbish or he would get burned fast. There's nothing hidden about nvidia's presence on this forum.

I hate whatever is going on at CH where if it's for real hidden shills post anything they can to make a product look better. AMD must have hidden shills like that - both by the facts (a) they have a marketing dept who must be doing something, and they aren't paying for upfront "focus group" members so therefore they must be hidden shills and (b) there are lots of positive AMD rumours posted as if they were fact (see BD).

 

[Madcatatlas]

Which is why I like Keys and like that way of working - Keys says upfront who he is so no hidden biases, it means he can't say any old rubbish or he would get burned fast. There's nothing hidden about nvidia's presence on this forum.

I hate whatever is going on at CH where if it's for real hidden shills post anything they can to make a product look better. AMD must have hidden shills like that - both by the facts (a) they have a marketing dept who must be doing something, and they aren't paying for upfront "focus group" members so therefore they must be hidden shills and (b) there are lots of positive AMD rumours posted as if they were fact (see BD).

I think Nvidia has even more shills and hidden posters talking them up and talking their products up and providing backup for both known and unknown Nvidia associates..

Its basicly a dribble of bad PR. or bad PR trickling out in a time where nothing else is coming to the market.

Oh, and if nvidia manage, after alot of time, to release something better than 7970, dont come here saying "i told you so", cause i want that to happen so i can get cheaper hardware.

 

[tincart]

I hate whatever is going on at CH where if it's for real hidden shills post anything they can to make a product look better. AMD must have hidden shills like that - both by the facts (a) they have a marketing dept who must be doing something, and they aren't paying for upfront "focus group" members so therefore they must be hidden shills and (b) there are lots of positive AMD rumours posted as if they were fact (see BD).

You've obviously never taken even a basic course on logic. You are claiming that AMD's marketing department is either in overt forum marketing (stuff we can see) OR covert forum marketing (stealth...). Neither part of that disjunctive statement need be true. It could be the case, for all we know, that AMD is not engaging in any forum marketing at all.

This is not something that you can prove deductively. You can use an inductive argument to suggest that it is probable, but for that you would need some evidence.

Your second statement could be taken as evidence, but it's pretty weak. "Positive AMD rumors" could be from covert marketers, or they could be from fans of AMD who have no connection to the company. The extrinsic behavior of both groups may be exactly the same, so you need to point to some relevant difference that will suggest they are AMD marketers, not overzealous fans.

 

[KCfromNC]

I don't get why people don't just accept it, of course AMD is doing viral marketing, and of course they will have a presence on anandtech.

Because many people prefer to have evidence before accusing others of misbehaving. Others prefer going on witch hunts. Your choice.

 

[blackened23]

AMD viral *owns* some tech forums by the responses we see. Their damage control is pathetic.

Welp guys, apoppin dropped the big one. AMD owns ATF.

 

[NIGELG]

Our mod Idon'tcare's name is being called as 'proof' that there are AMD shills.What do you say to that,Mr Mod?

 

[railven]

Welp guys, apoppin dropped the big one. AMD owns ATF.

well appops marked you as a shill.

Lucy you got some splainin' to do.

I noticed appopin edits his post a lot and the edit tag doesn't flag. I wonder how much of the posts are unaltered over at ABT? shady site is shady.

edit also why isn't this on the front page of the site? if he has the scoop I'd figure he'd want the world to know. how else would amd see his tantrum? been over a month and still no trictossfire article about heat he's mentioned often. to busy catching shills?

 

[blackened23]

well appops marked you as a shill.

Lucy you got some splainin' to do.

I noticed appopin edits his post a lot and the edit tag doesn't flag. I wonder how much of the posts are unaltered over at ABT? shady site is shady.

edit also why isn't this on the front page of the site? if he has the scoop I'd figure he'd want the world to know. how else would amd see his tantrum? been over a month and still no trictossfire article about heat he's mentioned often. to busy catching shills?

Did he seriously call me a shill? I'll gladly give him my real life name, address, and info and we can sit down and talk, and i'd love to hear him tell ME how i'm working for AMD. I'm opinionated. I like pulling for the underdog. But a shill? Yeah ok. If thats the case I haven't received anything from AMD yet, I expect Idontcare to rectify this. I need my AMD goods pal. (note: I am just kidding)

 

[railven]

Did he seriously call me a shill? ROFL! I'll gladly give him my real life name, address, and info and we can sit down and talk, and i'd love to hear him tell ME how i'm working for AMD

He's an idiot and started a witch hunt with no proof.

shill wasn't the exact word but more along the lines of calling your character in question. should go read it before he edits it. note his post has been edited.three times already and not once does he disclose that nor the forum reflect it.

makes his post harder to take serious from my point of view.

posting from my phone apologies for the typos.

 

[Madcatatlas]

Originally posted by apoppin/abt:
" Idontcare, the ATF forum administrator already admitted that some of the posters over there at VC&G get free HW from AMD without disclosing it. It is a fact. And these shills are now attempting to discredit ABT instead of considering the mountain of evidence that we have that AMD is committed to stealth marketing and their PR company of choice, Edelman, has already been busted for it."

This is just outrageous. Idontcare, can you explain this in any way? What is your role in all of this?

 

[blackened23]

This is just outrageous. Idontcare, can you explain this in any way? What is your role in all of this?

And where's my paycheck Idontcare? I expect my goods on the 1st and 15th and I haven't received anything yet

 

[railven]

This is just outrageous. Idontcare, can you explain this in any way? What is your role in all of this?

my main complaint with how appopin is handling is basically he is saying something general which I haven't heard anyone here deny it. he claims to have names, only name he's shared was the viral amd marketer that wrote and was a part of ABT. he makes allegations of the community here but I only see.the vocal green members on his forum complaining about this forum. he's accusing this place of harboring shills. with his logic I can say the same about abt.

I'm still waiting for the list of names. all he's doing is drumming up hits for a site that hasn't posted a tech article in over a month.

its a shame he's twisting what idc said and already clarified on to further his tantrum against amd. guy needs to just buy a card review it slantly and move on.

 

[railven]

And where's my paycheck Idontcare? I expect my goods on the 1st and 15th and I haven't received anything yet

he IP tracked you and linked you to nvcookies or whatever it was. if you're an amd shill haha amd is doing this wrong. cats out of the bag now.

 

[Grooveriding]

LOL what a joke of a site.

What are his plans now in reviewing nvidia hardware ? As much as a lot of the reviews over there read like nvidia shills these days, what sort of review can you do when you're no longer able to compare the cards to the competition.

I guess he can use AMD bench results from other sites or something :awe:

 

[Grooveriding]

he IP tracked you and linked you to nvcookies or whatever it was. if you're an amd shill haha amd is doing this wrong. cats out of the bag now.

How could he do that ? He'd need to know his IP here to correlate it to the IP he sees over there.

Only mods can see your IP here, and he's not a mod here....

So how did he get his IP over here ?

........

 

[railven]

How could he do that ? He'd need to know his IP here to correlate it to the IP he sees over there.

Only mods can see your IP here, and he's not a mod here....

So how did he get his IP over here ?

........

that's any easy conclusion to make. finding the proof well...

I'm sure ill get in trouble for stating the obvious but just think about who is bringing abt posts to atf. this doesn't make my theory true but the coincidents are just too obvious. oh well guess ill wait for my inbox to get a pm now.

 

[Idontcare]

Our mod Idon'tcare's name is being called as 'proof' that there are AMD shills.What do you say to that,Mr Mod?

I read through Apoppin's ABT thread, it is an interesting read that is clearly an intentional work in progress and is evolving in time.

It is interesting that he reference's some guy named "David Makin", aka "Ir0x0r", aka "palit".

I say interesting because we had two members here (no activity for many years now) which any registered member can search to find that fit Apoppin's description:

About ir0x0r
forename David
surname Makin

and

About PalitGuy
forename David
surname Makin

As for me being proof that their are shills, you already know where I stand on that. I disagree over the implied or working definition of the word "shill".

Some folks take a very liberal interpretation of the word as meaning anyone that has received compensation of any kind (including free or discounted hardware) and posts in the forum.

Such a broadly defined working definition is ludicrous in my estimation as it would apply to folks who benefit from this, or this, or this.

Every one of those links has people receiving free hardware, and if any one them post in this forum then some folks would have them be labeled as shills, a definition that I totally disagree with.

And in response to that obvious fallacy you will see some people start to make caveats "well, of course hardware reviewers aren't shills, but everyone else is".

My point is that it never ends, its all finger-pointing and blanket accusations. Guilty till proven innocent crap that just has no place here in this community.

To me a shill is an individual that is compensated to go and sway public opinion while feigning to not be associated with the business entity they are compensated by.

But the key distinction the intent. The Nvidia Focus Group does not compensate its members with free hardware for their involvement in tech forums, so far as I am aware the focus group members are compensated with free hardware so they can review it and provide their feedback (much like beta testers and so on) to the company that is sourcing that hardware.

It is really of no surprise that someone who is enthusiastic enough to want to test hardware and provide feedback would also be the sort of individual who is enthusiastic enough to spend time on forum boards. One does not cause the other, they are part and parcel to the individual's personality without external influence.

If the NV Focus Group had a charter, even an unwritten one on the sly, that was engineered to manipulate forum communities by way of compensating individuals with hardware with the expectation that that individual would then post in favor of Nvidia because of the free hardware carrot then I would have an issue with it as shilling. But that is simply not what the Nvidia Focus Group is about.

Its not what Lan parties are about, it is not what free swag at CES use to be about, it is not what reviewer relations are about, it is not what this forum is about.

People get free hardware all the time, free hardware is not what makes a shill. A shill is someone who's actions are intimately tied to the receipt of that hardware and/or compensation of any sort.

Hardware reviewers like our own Ryan Smith is not a shill not because he is a hardware reviewer and that somehow bestows upon him a mystical immunity idol; rather, Ryan Smith is not a shill because we all know that his motivations for posting what he posts in this very forum have no relation to the likelihood that the computer he is posting from contains a fee video card under the hood.

I feel the same way about Keysplayr, and every other member of this community that has received free or reduced price hardware. Just look at our CPU forum, we have employees of Intel who get reduced price CPU's as employee discount programs. Are they shills for Intel just because they get subsidized prices on their Intel gear? No! Don't be absurd.

They are not posting here in these forums because of that compensation, but it is no coincidence that someone who is enthusiastic enough about hardware as to seek out ways to get some (employee discounts, give-a-ways, organized lan parties, hardware reviews, focus group members) also tend to turn out to be enthusiastic about talking about hardware and so they end up being members of technical forums across the web.

There needs to be some sanity injected into the discussion. Not bury your heads on either side of the argument and take extremes "it is rampant" or "it doesn't exist", but actual common sense discussion on the topic.

Apoppin's efforts to uncover shills in the past have proven productive. Rollo was outed because of it before, looks like there was another one on the AMD side of the fence around the same timeframe but he too has since moved on.

We can never say it is not happening, but at the same time there needs to be some common sense applied to what it is that is actually being discussed here. IMO the term shill is over-used and over-extended. I've said this on numerous occasions. People can be reasonable about this, or unreasonable.

At the end of the day I personally think this is all much ado about nothing. It is fans getting passionate about something because that is what fans do, they get fanatical about stuff. And in the absence of something productive to be fanatical over they will find inconsequential stuff to get fanatical about.

I realize that by my stating the obvious here that it will resonate with the portion of the crowd that is the reasonable crowd and because they are reasonable individuals they aren't inclined to weigh in on such unreasonable topics as this. As such I fully expect to be unreasonably flamed for having dared to post such a middle-ground position in an otherwise polarized battlefield.

10 impassioned people on the extreme left, 10 impassioned people on the extreme right, and about 80 people near the middle who just don't give a f'ck and aren't about to post in this thread because they don't. (I wouldn't, except I got specifically called out and felt compelled to attempt to defend my integrity, knowing in advance that all attempts will fail from time-zero anyways )

 

[Grooveriding]

..

So what the hell is going on with him having access to forum member's IP addresses over here ? Only mods can see that information.

 

[blackened23]

he IP tracked you and linked you to nvcookies or whatever it was. if you're an amd shill haha amd is doing this wrong. cats out of the bag now.

Yeah I posted over there as nvidiacookies. Now I regret posting over there because I inadvertantly gave him page hits. He somehow thinks this is a smoking gun, wow I post on more than one forum. Who cares. I live in greensboro NC and if he wants to have a sit down with me and tell me how I am or ever have gotten paid by AMD, i'd love to hear it. I'm a pretty big guy too who doesn't like baseless accuastions, so apoppin, please come pay me a visit.

I'm sure the admins here know who I am and where i'm from. [radio edit] I freely admit that I post at multiple websites. So what. If you're accusing me of being a shill, put up with proof or shut up. [radio edit]

 

[96Firebird]

Yeah I posted over there as nvidiacookies. Now I regret posting over there because I inadvertantly gave him page hits. He somehow thinks this is a smoking gun, wow I post on more than one forum. Who cares. I live in greensboro NC and if he wants to have a sit down with me and tell me how I am or ever have gotten paid by AMD, i'd love to hear it. I'm a pretty big guy too who doesn't like baseless accuastions, so apoppin, please come pay me a visit. I'll give you a free ride to the hospital too.

Lol, he mad.

I now will forever read your posts in a southern accent, knowing you are from Greensboro.

 

[railven]

Yeah I posted over there as nvidiacookies. Now I regret posting over there because I inadvertantly gave him page hits. He somehow thinks this is a smoking gun, wow I post on more than one forum. Who cares. I live in greensboro NC and if he wants to have a sit down with me and tell me how I am or ever have gotten paid by AMD, i'd love to hear it. I'm a pretty big guy too who doesn't like baseless accuastions, so apoppin, please come pay me a visit.

I'm sure the admins here know who I am and where i'm from. Another interesting thing to note is that Kepslayer gave apoppin my IP address to accuse me with. Not that it bothers me, I freely admit that I post at multiple websites. Who the f*ck cares. So what. But its interesting that kepslayer is using his mod powers here to transmit the personal information of users here. Good stuff kepslayer, keep it classy. If you're accusing me of being a shill, put up with proof or shut up. Hell i'll make it easy for you. Come visit me in person. I can't guarantee your personal safety, because I don't like being accused of stuff like this, but hey we can talk it over.

well you dug that whole. if keys is doing that well that isn't right however you shouldn't make physical threats. its tasteless and doesn't add to your cause. just being frank.

so how do I get nvidiacookies? you a double agent haha.

edit aggh don't even post there. you're just feeding into him and he'll spin it against you. just let that go before you become his proof and then he'll brag about that instead of writing tech articles.

 

[blackened23]

well you dug that whole. if keys is doing that well that isn't right however you shouldn't make physical threats. its tasteless and doesn't add to your cause. just being frank.

so how do I get nvidiacookies? you a double agent haha.

I don't see AMD anywhere in my bank statement and I don't appreciate the accusation. If any of these lovely people wanna talk it over in person i'm game.

 

[96Firebird]

Roid rage!

 

[Grooveriding]

well you dug that whole. if keys is doing that well that isn't right however you shouldn't make physical threats. its tasteless and doesn't add to your cause. just being frank.

so how do I get nvidiacookies? you a double agent haha.

Well it's only a moderator who could of given him the IP address. Rather than single one out, whoever you are, why don't you just step forward and let us know which member of the moderator staff feels they can give out our IP addresses on a whim ?

No need for a witch hunt, just let us know who you are.