AMD's real biggest issue, The DX9 Artifacts

[Rikard]

I also have my doubts that people don't experience the issue. I didn't notice it for a long time either but that was because I was playing games at the time that didn't have any problems. Then again maybe some people don't see it. Not everyone saw the kepler vsync stutter.

I do not think it is possible to not see it. Those artifacts in the youtube videos that face2face linked were like stabs in my eyes! I think the most probable reason why reviewers are not discussing this more is that it must be very rare, not that they do not see it or do not care about it.

 

[BrightCandle]

I do not think it is possible to not see it. Those artifacts in the youtube videos that face2face linked were like stabs in my eyes! I think the most probable reason why reviewers are not discussing this more is that it must be very rare, not that they do not see it or do not care about it.

I think its more that reviewers are executing the same scene over and over and doing so most likely in an automated way. If that scene doesn't have a problem then they will never report it. Generation to generation they are trying to find a repeatable benchmark so it often involves just holding w to move forward in a particular area with a saved start point so that everything is nice and consistent. Conversely if you don't play the game then you dont notice the shadows borking and spiking all over the screen, or the fact that the game is nearly unplayable with stuttering when you go to a certain town or worse that it crashes on level 2 reliably.

I don't know what the solution is, they don't get paid for the articles and they really dont have time to do the QA for the firms that produce the games or the GPUs. The manufacturer should be doing this testing as should the developers of the games but both seem to be ignoring quality issues in their products. The reviewers simply don't have time to fill the gap to provide a good argument one way or the other.

Doesn't mean the problems don't exist if the reviewers don't report it, just means they are doing what we expect, not playing the game just running through their precanned benchmark from a prior known save (or heck just running the benchmark).

 

[blackened23]

So just to set the recon straight, are you overclocking anything in your system?

This, also curious. Factory overclocked card? is it stock? There hasn't been a clear answer on this. Also, what's the issue? Flickering or the artifacts?

I have never seen such symptoms of floating yellow/green/black dots with any card with the exception of when a card is over volted or overclocked beyond what it should be. Those floating dots are the first symptom of a bad overclock or over volt - i've heard of some cards being factory overclocked or overvolted too high? maybe that's it? I just haven't heard of drivers causing the yellow and green dot artifacts that are totally random - every instance i've seen of that has been overvoltage or overclocking related. Flickering, sure that does happen due to driver issues. I would equate flickering to driver issues, but artifacts? I don't know. I know some out there have seen those overclocking/overvolting artifact colored dots floating around the screen, and I just can't think of a driver issue causing that.

 

[KingFatty]

Also, the artifacts really really look like the type you'd see when going too far with an overclock on the video card (core and/or memory). I could see many people getting fooled by it and assuming it's their own fault for overclocking, not realizing it's a software issue?

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't think I see it in every game DX9 game, but I too can confirm that I see some odd clipping and graphical activity in Dungeon Seige 3.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

This, also curious. Factory overclocked card? is it stock? There hasn't been a clear answer on this. Also, what's the issue? Flickering or the artifacts?

I have never seen such symptoms of floating yellow/green/black dots with any card with the exception of when a card is over volted or overclocked beyond what it should be. Those floating dots are the first symptom of a bad overclock or over volt - i've heard of some cards being factory overclocked or overvolted too high? maybe that's it? I just haven't heard of drivers causing the yellow and green dot artifacts that are totally random - every instance i've seen of that has been overvoltage or overclocking related. Flickering, sure that does happen due to driver issues. I would equate flickering to driver issues, but artifacts? I don't know. I know some out there have seen those overclocking/overvolting artifact colored dots floating around the screen, and I just can't think of a driver issue causing that.

Too many people just assume that they can push the sliders to the right and their GCN card will just work. I myself didn't win the chip lottery. On my 7970 at stock voltage anything above 1080mhz starts to see artifacts over long periods of time and eventually crash after about an hour. I guess some people call that stable, but not me.

I can honestly say I have never seen any artifacts on my 7970 that weren't cause by my overclock in about 300 hours of Skyrim. Haven't played many other Dx9 games lately to be honest.

 

[KevinH]

I gave it my 660 ti to my brother and went "down" to a 7850 since he plays BF3 and the most intense game I play is BL2. I can confirm that there is flickering in DX 9 titles. I specifically play Borderlands 2 and it occurs every so often, somtimes within minutes and sometimes within an hour. It's a quick flicker so it doesn't really obstruct my game but it's annoying. The youtube videos pretty much pin it down. It's basically a texture that flashes black for a split second (at least that is what is occurring on mine).

I'm at stock on an Asus DirectCU 7850.

Also, can we please stop assuming that everyone is overclocking their cards. There are a lot of us that don't overclock.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

So just to set the recon straight, are you overclocking anything in your system?

I didn't come here to ask for assistance or to have anyone help troubleshoot. I can do that on my own and when I do overclock I perform very rigorous stress testing unlike most people.

I made this thread to make people aware of an issue. You can read the Guru3d thread that I liked to so you can see some of the trouble shooting that others have done. There is a lot of info about this issue in that thread if you are uninformed.

This is a confirmed issue by AMD. I've personally seen these artifacts on more than one system.

So, believe what you want.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I didn't come here to ask for assistance or to have anyone help troubleshoot. I can do that on my own and when I do overclock I perform very rigorous stress testing unlike most people.

I made this thread to make people aware of an issue. You can read the Guru3d thread that I liked to so you can see some of the trouble shooting that others have done. There is a lot of info about this issue in that thread if you are uninformed.

This is a confirmed issue by AMD. I've personally seen these artifacts on more than one system.

So, believe what you want.

Dosn't matter if it's confirmed or not...some people will still reject this, because they havn't noticed it or seen it for themselfs.

This is the current stance about any AMD issues for some posters here, in case you havn't noticed....sad but true.

Good thing to hear AMD is aware of this and consider it important.

 

[blackened23]

I didn't come here to ask for assistance or to have anyone help troubleshoot. I can do that on my own and when I do overclock I perform very rigorous stress testing unlike most people.

I made this thread to make people aware of an issue. You can read the Guru3d thread that I liked to so you can see some of the trouble shooting that others have done. There is a lot of info about this issue in that thread if you are uninformed.

This is a confirmed issue by AMD. I've personally seen these artifacts on more than one system.

So, believe what you want.

So in other words, you're overclocking?

 

[fixbsod]

Just because some people don't NOTICE something doesn't mean it's not an issue.

For example -- my past 2 tvs have had issues -- one a CRT had some tweaked geometry and one a fairly new Sony LCD has a 'red flashing' issue. In those respective forums/threads were numerous people who just couldn't see the issue. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Best example -- my girlfriend and I watch that Ghost Adventures show sometimes. A lot of their visual 'evidence' of the paranormal will be extremely low quality night vision for just a few frames. My girlfriend almost NEVER sees it yet I see it every time. Her vision is the same as mine but spending years looking for display issues such as dead pixels, geometry, shifting color palettes, interlacing, improper frame pulldown, improper aspect ratio, etc., I notice display issues much faster and more often than other people.

Just because you aren't noticing DX9 flicker doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Dosn't matter if it's confirmed or not...some people will still reject this, because they havn't noticed it or seen it for themselfs.

This is the current stance about any AMD issues for some posters here, in case you havn't noticed....sad but true.

Good thing to hear AMD is aware of this and consider it important.

 

[badb0y]

I have experienced the problem on two different 7870s, on two entirely different PCs. Neither cards were overclocked.

Hey, thanks for the reply, which game was it? I just want to see if I can reproduce the issue on my computer.

You do understand that AMD has acknowledged this exact issue? Its a driver issue. Those flashing black artifacts in COD BO, that has nothing to do with an overclock.

Did you even look at the four month old thread on Guru3d that I liked to? It'll answer a ton of your questions.


Read the post right below you. I linked to a large thread on guru 3d so that people could at least attempt to educate themselves on the subject before commenting.

I also have my doubts that people don't experience the issue. I didn't notice it for a long time either but that was because I was playing games at the time that didn't have any problems. Then again maybe some people don't see it. Not everyone saw the kepler vsync stutter.

This issue isn't uncommon and quite frankly its been going on for too long.

I am pretty susceptible to any artifacts or stuttering. I notice tearing on my monitor right now when I play older games like CS but I try to ignore it. Like I said before I don't deny that this is a valid problem, just that I haven't noticed it on my system and the type of artifacts shown in the video typically occur when the card is pushed too far when overclocking.

That's all.

Just wait...even if AMD has confirmed this issue...more people will show up and claim "insufficient data", "it must be your system" or "I don't see it"...just wait ^^

Dude, tone down your "holier than thou" attitude. Your not impressing anyone except Homeles with your little jabs at people.

 

[Homeles]

Dude, tone down your "holier than thou" attitude. Your not impressing anyone with your little jabs at people.

Speak for yourself.

 

[badb0y]

Speak for yourself.

Fixed for you.

 

[Homeles]

Fixed for you.

Is it not important to point out when people are being hypocrites? Hypocrisy, confirmation bias, and other forms of intellectual dishonesty detract from the quality of discussion.

 

[blackened23]

Speak for yourself.

Ignoring the subject at hand, (AMD acknowledged a flicker bug), why do you continually throw out 1 line responses designed to pick fights with people? You've developed a pattern of doing this constantly.

 

[Homeles]

Ignoring the subject at hand, (AMD acknowledged a flicker bug), why do you continually throw out 1 line responses designed to pick fights with people? You've developed a pattern of doing this constantly.

I'm not trying to pick fights with people. I'm just trying to point out flaws in their arguments and reasoning. If everyone didn't get so super defensive and had the humility to realize they were in error, there wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Keysplayr]

He said he likes to argue. It's his hobby. What else would you expect?

 

[Homeles]

He said he likes to argue. It's his hobby. What else would you expect?

Apparently someone who's too docile to point out when someone's wrong.

 

[Firestorm007]

Dosn't matter if it's confirmed or not...some people will still reject this, because they havn't noticed it or seen it for themselfs.

This is the current stance about any AMD issues for some posters here, in case you havn't noticed....sad but true.

Good thing to hear AMD is aware of this and consider it important.

Oh, for the love of (insert your own GOD here) , just shut up already. I haven't seen anything on my 7970 yet. It may limited to certain games, but none I've been playing. BF3, Dirt Showdown, BO2...

 

[Firestorm007]

He said he likes to argue. It's his hobby. What else would you expect?

Coming from Mr. FUD himself. Cute. Why don't you stop throwing fuel on the fire. At least he's contributing. Gotta ask, have you seen any artifacts. Oh, wait, oh, you don't own an AMD card, or maybe you did buy those 7970's after all.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Well according to Thracks it commonly happens in these games: "Skyrim, Dishonored, Civ 5 (DX9), Borderlands 2, Dragon Age 1 & 2, DoTA 2 and Metro 2033."

I can't say I have seen it for myself. I had a flickering problem in Skryim, but 13.1 seems to have fixed it completely. I'll keep a lookout for it

 

[Dankk]

Hey, thanks for the reply, which game was it? I just want to see if I can reproduce the issue on my computer.

All of these games have exhibited artifacts, with the same intermittent, brief, sporadic behavior:

• Duke Nukem Forever
• Train Simulator 2013
• Ridge Racer: Unbounded
• Dead Island (this one's pretty awful)
• Sniper: Ghost Warrior

Keep in mind, I haven't tested most of these post-13.1. As I said earlier in the thread, 13.1 may very well have helped. I just fired up Train Simulator and couldn't reproduce any artifacts for the first time in months. Duke Nukem Forever still had a couple, but I couldn't reproduce them as easily as I could pre-13.1.

I should probably test Dead Island next. There's no specific area of the game where the artifacts are the worst; rather, they appear throughout the entire darn game. I was playing it with a friend for a couple hours, and every minute or so, there was a flickering artifact, a flashing shape, a quick smear over the screen that lasted only for a single frame. It's minor, yet so irritating at the same time. Play Dead Island for 10 minutes and with a scrutinizing eye I'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about.

The reason why "the media" hasn't picked up on this issue yet, is because it's exclusively manifesting in more obscure/low-key games that fancy-schmansy hardware review sites don't care about. Tech Report doesn't care about Train Simulator. Guru3D doesn't care about Ridge Racer. They don't use these games in their benchmarks, so who cares? The hardware enthusiast sites don't care, thus, AMD doesn't care.

If these artifacts were occurring in Battlefield 3, or Crysis (isn't that game 7 years old now?), I guarantee you that he hardware review sites would've set off the alarm by now, and AMD would be hard at work on a fix. But they're not. The artifacts are appearing in games that the enthusiasts don't care about. And there's not enough casual gamers out there who will notice the issue and raise a stink big enough to change anything. I'm sure AMD could keep it swept under the rug indefinitely, if they could get away with it.

I'm not an enthusiast. I'm a gamer. I care about games like Duke Nukem Forever. I care about Train Simulator. I care about Sniper: Ghost Warrior. I play games for fun, and when I see giant nondescript polygons flash onto my screen for a split second, every minute or so, it really ruins the immersion for me.

 

[Homeles]

It apparently also shows in Skyrim, Dishonored, Civ 5 (DX9), Borderlands 2, Dragon Age 1 & 2, DoTA 2 and Metro 2033. Some of those games are, in fact, games that fancy-shmansy review sites care about. But do the reviewers actually play the games they test? That is a question in and of itself...

 

[Dankk]

It apparently also shows in Skyrim, Dishonored, Civ 5 (DX9), Borderlands 2, Dragon Age 1 & 2, DoTA 2 and Metro 2033. Some of those games are, in fact, games that fancy-shmansy review sites care about. But do the reviewers actually play the games they test? That is a question in and of itself...

Good to know. I haven't played any of those games lately.