AMD's real biggest issue, The DX9 Artifacts

[Arachnotronic]

MTDEW

Love the drink

Anyway, this issue is one that I ran into when I briefly owned a 7970 (coil whine + RTCW compatibility + artifacts everywhere + noise), and I replicated it on a 7770, a 6750, and even a 6870.

This was a long time ago (maybe a year?), but that kind of crap is exactly why I stay away from AMD. They make fine hardware, but their GPU drivers just lack the finesse of the Nvidia's.

I was even more shocked when I ran RTCW on the IGP of a Celeron G530 @ 1080p without problems. That really was it for my time with AMD on the GPU side. Nvidia for me until they royally screw up (ala GTX 470...I had two of those in SLI and was so happy to ditch them for a 580).

 

[MTDEW]

MTDEW

Love the drink

Anyway, this issue is one that I ran into when I briefly owned a 7970 (coil whine + RTCW compatibility + artifacts everywhere + noise), and I replicated it on a 7770, a 6750, and even a 6870.

This was a long time ago (maybe a year?), but that kind of crap is exactly why I stay away from AMD. They make fine hardware, but their GPU drivers just lack the finesse of the Nvidia's.

I was even more shocked when I ran RTCW on the IGP of a Celeron G530 @ 1080p without problems. That really was it for my time with AMD on the GPU side. Nvidia for me until they royally screw up (ala GTX 470...I had two of those in SLI and was so happy to ditch them for a 580).

As i'm sure you've noticed, its honesty or lack thereof that infuriates me the most.
So to see you post that AMD drivers "lack the finesse of Nvidia drivers" , im in no way inclined to argue with that, since i own 4 pc's with Nvidia and AMD hardware and would tend to agree.
But believe us when we say, the 7xxx series drivers for AMD have easily had the most issues.

Darn shame the game plays best for you on an Integrated GPU.
Judging by the info in your post, you've tried both AMD and Nvidia GPU's on this particular game and since i don't have it installed, im not gonna argue with your conclusions.
At the very least, i hope the integrated GPU plays the game at acceptable performance levels.

 

[MTDEW]

MTDEW

Love the drink

Anyway, this issue is one that I ran into when I briefly owned a 7970 (coil whine + RTCW compatibility + artifacts everywhere + noise), and I replicated it on a 7770, a 6750, and even a 6870.

This was a long time ago (maybe a year?), but that kind of crap is exactly why I stay away from AMD. They make fine hardware, but their GPU drivers just lack the finesse of the Nvidia's.

I was even more shocked when I ran RTCW on the IGP of a Celeron G530 @ 1080p without problems. That really was it for my time with AMD on the GPU side. Nvidia for me until they royally screw up (ala GTX 470...I had two of those in SLI and was so happy to ditch them for a 580).

Just wanted to add, that is a shame, i remember that being an awesome game.
But in all honesty, i dont remember what GPU i was using when i played it.

Now, thanks to you, im going through my closet looking for the game, if i find it, i'll post my findings on my GPU's i currently own. :biggrin:
ie: GTX 670, AMD 7950's, AMD 6970's, Nvidia gtx 470, Nvidia GTX 280.

Luckily i just finished FC3 and have some free time on my hands. :biggrin:
But i own A LOT of old games, hope i can find RTCW.

 

[Arachnotronic]

As i'm sure you've noticed, its honesty or lack thereof that infuriates me the most.
So to see you post that AMD drivers "lack the finesse of Nvidia drivers" , im in no way inclined to argue with that, since i own 4 pc's with Nvidia and AMD hardware and would tend to agree.
But believe us when we say, the 7xxx series drivers for AMD have easily had the most issues.

Darn shame the game plays best for you on an Integrated GPU.
Judging by the info in your post, you've tried both AMD and Nvidia GPU's on this particular game and since i don't have it installed, im not gonna argue with your conclusions.
At the very least, i hope the integrated GPU plays the game at acceptable performance levels.

Well, the IGP was on a machine I built for someone else -- my GTX 680 plays it quite nicely

But yeah, I don't fault AMD for having inferior drivers -- they are running on much, much less financially. However, from a consumer standpoint, I'm not here to try to help out AMD, I'm here to get the best product for my dollar. If I have to spend a little bit more to be guaranteed that all my games will work AND I'll get something that's fast and power efficient, then I have no problems doing that.

Also, Nvidia cards have much better resale value, so upgrade costs later are much better.

 

[3DVagabond]

Well, the IGP was on a machine I built for someone else -- my GTX 680 plays it quite nicely

But yeah, I don't fault AMD for having inferior drivers -- they are running on much, much less financially. However, from a consumer standpoint, I'm not here to try to help out AMD, I'm here to get the best product for my dollar. If I have to spend a little bit more to be guaranteed that all my games will work AND I'll get something that's fast and power efficient, then I have no problems doing that.

Also, Nvidia cards have much better resale value, so upgrade costs later are much better.

Are you saying that nVidia has no game bugs?

 

[MTDEW]

Well, the IGP was on a machine I built for someone else -- my GTX 680 plays it quite nicely

But yeah, I don't fault AMD for having inferior drivers -- they are running on much, much less financially. However, from a consumer standpoint, I'm not here to try to help out AMD, I'm here to get the best product for my dollar. If I have to spend a little bit more to be guaranteed that all my games will work AND I'll get something that's fast and power efficient, then I have no problems doing that.

Also, Nvidia cards have much better resale value, so upgrade costs later are much better.

I like you A LOT!!!
You simply said it outright without even realizing it.

Some people simply consider themselves too busy with daily life to want to worry about drivers and "workarounds", and simply want their games to work with minimal tweaking/workarounds.
And to put it simply, "just want things to work".
To those i would recommend Nvidia cards/drivers.

Others want to feel they got the best bang for their buck and don't mind "tweaking" and to be honest actually enjoy it, to those i would recommend AMD cards.

 

[BrightCandle]

Arma 2 and its white speckles is game breaking, its not an annoying problem it shows white where there should be transparency (trees, bushes). It makes it very hard to see anything in a forest.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Are you saying that nVidia has no game bugs?

And here come the red damage control ^^

 

[frozentundra123456]

I have had HD 7970 for like a year now and I haven't had issues with any of the following:

Diablo 3
The Walking Dead
Dead Space 2
Batman AC
BF3
Torchlight 2
Path of Exile
Skyrim
Mass Effect 3
WoW: MoP
Titan Quest: Immortal Throne
CS: GO
Borderlands 2
Alan Wake
Guild Wars 2
Dota 2

and many more...

Basically I have played a mix of new, old , and even unreleased games over the past year. If you are having artifacts roll back your OC or RMA your card.

I am not trying to defend AMD or deny others who have had problems, but I have a HD7770 and have not noticed any problems in Skyrim, but I only have a few hours in the replay I am doing since I got the new card. No problems in several other games either (Witcher 2, Borderlands 2, Torchlight 2, Black op 2, several older games.)

 

[Dstoop]

I love the black flickering textures I get in Dishonored. Happens on all drivers 12.10 and up.

And if you roll back to anything before 12.10, you have the hard crash on monitor sleep bug to contend with.

Fun stuff :/

 

[Rikard]

I am not trying to defend AMD or deny others who have had problems, but I have a HD7770 and have not noticed any problems in Skyrim, but I only have a few hours in the replay I am doing since I got the new card. No problems in several other games either (Witcher 2, Borderlands 2, Torchlight 2, Black op 2, several older games.)

I am also completely confused about this new issue. I have not seen anything yet. Could we have a screenshot of the artifacts please so we make sure we are on the same page?

 

[zootedd]

I am also completely confused about this new issue. I have not seen anything yet. Could we have a screenshot of the artifacts please so we make sure we are on the same page?

I was thinking the same thing, can anyone post some screens of this?

 

[Face2Face]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HrnKqW86Wg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG8v1P850ak

 

[Rikard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HrnKqW86Wg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG8v1P850ak

Thank you. Nope, I have definitely never seen this. I only get that if I OC beyond 1500 MHz mem clock without increasing voltage. I would RMA.

 

[brandonb]

Am I the only one who's never had any serious trouble with AMD drivers? I haven't had any artifacts flickering or performance problems. :/

I feel left out.

 

[Rikard]

Am I the only one who's never had any serious trouble with AMD drivers? I haven't had any artifacts flickering or performance problems. :/

I feel left out.

Me too.
Well, I had problems with AMD drivers in Linux, but not a single problem in Windows and that is what we discuss here I presume.

 

[djsb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HrnKqW86Wg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG8v1P850ak

To be honest this does look like a hardware issue, but I'm biased because I'm someone who did receive a faulty 7950 that artifacted at stock and resolved it with an RMA. Are there any other games that are known to artifact, or is it random? The only remotely mainstream DX9 games I've played are Crysis 2 and Dishonored, with no issues, though I could revisit my library and see how any known troublesome games run.

 

[Face2Face]

To be honest this does look like a hardware issue, but I'm biased because I'm someone who did receive a faulty 7950 that artifacted at stock and resolved it with an RMA. Are there any other games that are known to artifact, or is it random? The only remotely mainstream DX9 games I've played are Crysis 2 and Dishonored, with no issues, though I could revisit my library and see how any known troublesome games run.

13.1 Drivers seemed to have helped the problem with Skyrim artifacting. Still happens, just not as much. Haven't tried GTA 4 yet.

 

[Dstoop]

To be honest this does look like a hardware issue, but I'm biased because I'm someone who did receive a faulty 7950 that artifacted at stock and resolved it with an RMA. Are there any other games that are known to artifact, or is it random? The only remotely mainstream DX9 games I've played are Crysis 2 and Dishonored, with no issues, though I could revisit my library and see how any known troublesome games run.

It's not a hardware issue. There's threads about it in the forums of nearly every DX9 game that is badly affected. There's threads about it in the AMD forums. There's threads about it at Toms, HardOCP, and here. AMD reps have flat out admitted that it's an issue with the drivers and they're working on it.

It's honestly, truly not a hardware issue.

 

[Rikard]

It's not a hardware issue. There's threads about it in the forums of nearly every DX9 game that is badly affected. There's threads about it in the AMD forums. There's threads about it at Toms, HardOCP, and here. AMD reps have flat out admitted that it's an issue with the drivers and they're working on it.

It's honestly, truly not a hardware issue.

If it is not a hardware issue, there must be something else that causes some people to be affected and some not, despite using the same drivers. Is there a specific hardware and software configuration that suffers the most from this?

 

[Lonbjerg]

It's not a hardware issue. There's threads about it in the forums of nearly every DX9 game that is badly affected. There's threads about it in the AMD forums. There's threads about it at Toms, HardOCP, and here. AMD reps have flat out admitted that it's an issue with the drivers and they're working on it.

It's honestly, truly not a hardware issue.

Dosn't matter if AMD says there is a problem...some people will still deny it...sad but true.

 

[Rikard]

Dosn't matter if AMD says there is a problem...some people will still deny it...sad but true.

If you are referring to my post I never denied it. I just wonder in which configurations it appears. Not all OS's are the same you know, driver conflicts etc.

 

[Dstoop]

If it is not a hardware issue, there must be something else that causes some people to be affected and some not, despite using the same drivers. Is there a specific hardware and software configuration that suffers the most from this?

I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately there's no way to reliably say with the data available to end users. The only people who might know this are AMD's driver team. There's just too many variables to easily track it down from our end. Like the microstuttering issues, its entirely possible the people who "dont have this issue" with their 7xxx cards just arent playing the games affected, or flat out dont notice its happening. It could also easily be related to some kind of antialiasing, or Catalyst AI, or any number of driver-based settings that those unaffected people happen to be disabling, running on a setting that diminishes it, or overriding entirely with something like ATI tray tools or MSI afterburner.

What I *can* say is that from all the instances i've seen it on my computer, it seems to be related to lighting/shadow effects. For example, in Guild Wars 2 I typically see it when an object moves between a light source and the camera. Areas with irregular or many light sources (such as icy caves with bright lighting), you can also consistently see the grid-lines on the ground of the objects/cells that make up the world.

And for reference, the issue has persisted through multiple windows reinstalls, and three different video cards (Two MSI 7870 HAWK and one Gigabyte 7950). On all three I do not get any artifacting in Guild Wars 2 with the 12.6 drivers, but do get artifacting with 12.10 and 13.1.

 

[Dankk]

Are there any other games that are known to artifact, or is it random?

Lots of games with artifacts. I'm not sure if I'd call it "random" or not. Duke Nukem Forever has been doing this to me for a while.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIPLrkozKoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=864iWytOZzU

13.1 Drivers seemed to have helped the problem with Skyrim artifacting. Still happens, just not as much. Haven't tried GTA 4 yet.

I think you're right, 13.1 sorta seemed to help, but the artifacts are still there (albeit harder to reproduce).

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Dosn't matter if AMD says there is a problem...some people will still deny it...sad but true.

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