AMD's GPU Q3 2012 marketshare - 14% declines across the board to NVIDIA

[Grooveriding]

These two statements are contradicting in and of themselves. If Intel took over, and then released new graphics cards with a 2-3 year leapfrog in performance, Nvidia would fold. Intel would have a monopoly. They could charge whatever they wanted. The situation would then be no different than the alternative.

I doubt nvidia would fold, they'd just adjust. They do more than sell consumer GPUs, although even there they wouldn't be out. They'd probably adjust using price/performance to sell consumer GPUs.

Intel making discreet GPUs is a huge boon for gamers and developers. Their process tech could give us a massive leap ahead in performance. There is no reason not to want them making high end discreet cards for me as a gamer.

 

[OCGuy]

nVidia has the products, the vision, the marketing, and the leadership to succeed. AMD CPU division has 0/4.....AMD Graphics has 1/4.

No surprise here.

 

[Final8ty]

No. It's good that he backs his opinions with facts. It makes people think before responding. Well, mostly it does.

To the subject, pretty amazing isn't it that the market goes this way. It's the difference between having a CEO who has a personal interest in the company like JHH, and hired guns who are just trying to pad their severance package and could care less about the company. It's not the consumer's fault they believe nVidia makes a better card than AMD. It's AMD and nVidia who are to blame/credit.

Another thing not being talked about here is the OEM side of things. Just because nVidia is raping the public doesn't mean they are raping the OEM market. They could be selling, for example, 680's to them far a price cheaper than 7970's at wholesale and allowing the OEM's to make more profit. We know, all else being equal, with a smaller chip and less RAM, that the 680/670 cost less to manufacture than a Tahiti based card. If you were Dell or even a boutique manufacturer and could buy 680's for less than 7970's (just to pick some easy to understand numbers) and then sell the finished product for more, what would you do? How much would that effect market share?

Well its a bit of both really or we would all be using NV cards if it was purley down to the marketing.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

I could see Apple getting them though.

Apple getting ATI = Paint the cards blue, add a shiny finish and call them iCcelerator

Nvidia would be in a world of trouble

 

[xcal237]

You can call me biased all you want, I got $900 of GPUs for free because of bitcoin mining. It'll take free HD7970s OCed over $900 GTX680s in SLI any day. I know I am going to need that $900 I saved for the future as it looks like NV might be the only GPU firm standing soon. Looking forward to 8800GTX, GTX280 NV pricing. I am excited.

you have to be delusional if you think that no one will come and bail AMD out of its current dilemma...

 

[3DVagabond]

you have to be delusional if you think that no one will come and bail AMD out of its current dilemma...

They're not GM. If AMD makes it, it will be because of tightening their belts, getting rid of all the excess baggage, and making some sound business decisions.

 

[boxleitnerb]

There is a buying bias with the crowd, and I guess it would take AMD several years of having the dominance over Nvidia that Nvidia enjoyed before over AMD/ATI to sway peoples minds. These things take much time to trickle down to the average user.

AMD needs to build "brand capital" so to speak, and fast.

 

[3DVagabond]

There is a buying bias with the crowd, and I guess it would take AMD several years of having the dominance over Nvidia that Nvidia enjoyed before over AMD/ATI to sway peoples minds. These things take much time to trickle down to the average user.

AMD needs to build "brand capital" so to speak, and fast.

I don't think it would take that long. A fair percentage of fanbois are front runner types. It's OK for AMD to come out with a faster card when they release first. nVidia's fans fully expect nVidia to come out with a card that is ~15% faster than AMD when they catch up though. That basically happened early on this generation, just as it has in the past. Difference being that once the process matured AMD moved back in front. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that nVidia only manages a GK104 refresh for the 700 series and the GTX 780 is based on GK114, not GK110. The HD 8970 will very likely be the faster card again. If that happens you'll see a lot of fans jumping ship, IMO.

nVidia said a while ago that they'd only release a Geforce GK110 if they had to because of competition. We'll see what happens, because I think they'll need GK110 to compete with whatever to Sea Islands top chip is. I also think that GK110 would be faster and all the squirming amongst the nVidia faithful will stop and they'll feel vindicated in their brand choice again.

 

[Silverforce11]

I agree with the sentiment here, AMD shot themselves by going after high margins at the initial release, this led a lot of users on the fence, to wait for NV's release.. if 79xx were cheaper on release, many would have jump onboard. But its not a huge impact since 28nm production was not stellar for awhile, now prices have readjust and we will see Q4 updates later..

What really hurts is their huge loss in the mobile space, almost every notebook n ultrabook design win this generation has gone to NV. It will look much worse in Q4.

 

[boxleitnerb]

@3DVagabond:
The informed fanboy percentage is very very low. We're talking the complete customer base here. People who just go into a store and buy something without researching first with little to no knowledge of hardware. For them, Nvidias brand recognition and image is the biggest selling point.

 

[omeds]

AMD's execution was poor, as far as drivers, prices, and marketing goes, imo. Hardware wise, they hit a homerun. Shame they couldn't capitalise on what the engineers achieved.

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm seeing a lot of points above about what AMD should do. Problem is, if they were to do these things, it would be about 3-5 years too late. Maybe more.

 

[Silverforce11]

Not at all, if they werent so keen on ripping off customers with the >$500 pricing for 7970 and follow up overpriced products, it would look completely different.

Prices are good, but only recently and would not have impacted the Q3 results.. wait for Q4, if the trend is still down for dekstop discrete, i will be very very surprised.

But losing mobile share is the biggest fail for 28nm. Here, theres just no excuse.

 

[MrK6]

If anything, this is one in many examples of how consumers are idiots.

Beyond that, I'd imagine it must be incredibly frustrating to work for AMD, especially as an engineer, and see the company just fumble all the time. It's amazing they aren't on the chopping block yet, most companies can't last through a decade+ of mismanagement.

 

[SirPauly]

There is a buying bias with the crowd, and I guess it would take AMD several years of having the dominance over Nvidia that Nvidia enjoyed before over AMD/ATI to sway peoples minds. These things take much time to trickle down to the average user.

AMD needs to build "brand capital" so to speak, and fast.

That's not necessarily the case because AMD did overtake nVidia in Discrete GPU leadership a short time ago.

How does one build brand capital? Curious on your thoughts!

 

[Silverforce11]

That's not necessarily the case because AMD did overtake nVidia in Discrete GPU leadership a short time ago.

How does one build brand capital? Curious on your thoughts!

Only by selling a great product at rediculously low prices that earned them very little profit. This is simply not sustainable.

Brand capital is quite easy: Put your logo everywhere in every game. After a lot of AAA games flashing AMD, it will be straight forward. Its like Intel's logo and the music theme.. everyone and their dog knows Intel.

NV had a major headstart on this route with their NV sponsored titles.

 

[SirPauly]

Actually they made more revenue and profits.

 

[Ferzerp]

If you aren't making what people want to buy and are blaming that on the people and not yourself, it is time to look inward and stop blaming everyone else for your failures.

You can argue all you want that people should want to buy AMD stuff, but the simple fact is, the large majority aren't. Preaching to them, lecturing them, or calling them names is not the way to accomplish that.

 

[SirPauly]

Brand capital is quite easy: Put your logo everywhere in every game.

Curious if that is all there is then how on Earth did AMD retake discrete leadership from nVidia? Market only buys nVidia is repeated over-and-over.

 

[Jaydip]

If you aren't making what people want to buy and are blaming that on the people and not yourself, it is time to look inward and stop blaming everyone else for your failures.

You can argue all you want that people should want to buy AMD stuff, but the simple fact is, the large majority aren't. Preaching to them, lecturing them, or calling them names is not the way to accomplish that.

:thumbsup:

 

[Silverforce11]

Curious if that is all there is then how on Earth did AMD retake discrete leadership from nVidia? Market only buys nVidia is repeated over-and-over.

By 2 generations of extremely good products for dirt cheap; 48xx and 58xx series. AND IMPORTANTLY: By NV's failure with a very late counter and the huge rip off that was the 8800 series prior. It was a perfect situation for AMD to capitalize. This wasnt because AMD was flashing its logo everywhere, back then they didnt push hard into GE, or at all.

You want brand recognition, and the "by product" of ppl paying premium for your stuff? Need to advertise more and become a common name amongst gamers. If the guy loading up Black Ops II sees an AMD logo, its gonna stick even if not conciously, on a subconcious level. Gaming Evolve is going to pay back big time for AMD, IMO.

 

[tviceman]

Gaming Evolve is going to pay back big time for AMD, IMO.

I think it's just too little too late. If Gaming Evolved were coming into it's own two years ago like it is now, then I think we would be seeing a different situation today. As it is, GE needs another 1 1/2 - 2 years from now to have the impact on gamers that TWIMTBP has had but in one year AMD may be already fragmented and sold off or it's resources may be entirely reallocated to the point where GE is entirely absent (again). On top of that, we're assuming that AMD's products will continue to have as much value or competitiveness as they do right now. But they're laying opff engineers, they are cash strapped, and in the process of refocusing their entire business. The cards are stacked against AMD, and most of the chips are in Nvidia's and Intel's corner.

 

[boxleitnerb]

That's not necessarily the case because AMD did overtake nVidia in Discrete GPU leadership a short time ago.

How does one build brand capital? Curious on your thoughts!

But did they only overtake Nvidia because Nvidia had nothing to offer for 6 months? For how many quarters did they overtake them?

By doing what we both appreciate:
Being pro-active, generation special value for their customers (JC2 cuda water, Batman MSAA, PhysX, AO...), having the fastest GPU over a long(er) time, not lowering prices 3 times a year (makes you look like a cheapo brand), properly supporting enthusiasts (mGPU, 3D) etc.

 

[Silverforce11]

But did they only overtake Nvidia because Nvidia had nothing to offer for 6 months? For how many quarters did they overtake them?

By doing what we both appreciate:
Being pro-active, generation special value for their customers (JC2 cuda water, Batman MSAA, PhysX, AO...), having the fastest GPU over a long(er) time, not lowering prices 3 times a year (makes you look like a cheapo brand), properly supporting enthusiasts (mGPU, 3D) etc.

You notice most users who come to forums asking for advice on GPUs.. they say they want NV only because of Physx. As far as i can see, its still the only good feature that separates them.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I think it's just too little too late.

Agreed. It takes years to build up brand equity, AMD doesn't have that kind of time. I see AMD is hovering around $1.90, I believe that is a new yearly low, would not be surprised to see them hit an all time low before the end of 2012.