AMD's GPU Q3 2012 marketshare - 14% declines across the board to NVIDIA

[MrK6]

You mean innovation slower than it currently is? BLOPs 2 broke $500 million. Not sure about you, but I don't think either of these two companies have as much say at what devs/publishers do outside of MONEY.

Hardware is far ahead of what our current slew of games have to offer. The market has shifted focus.

Wrong, and that's a ridiculous generalization. There's plenty of games out there that still bring GPU's to their knees. By analogy, just because Justin Bieber or any other crap artist sells millions of albums doesn't mean that the market is "shifting focus" and music is getting worse. Popularity has nothing to do with the quality of a product or experience. I've said it before and I'll say it again: people are idiots and sheep.

Consumers will buy what they feel is best for them. Metrics mean nothing in the granduer scope of things. We just use them around here to fight over. Your gaming experience wouldn't be 2% slower using a GTX 680 (I can vouch for that).

When you factor in everything (even peace of mind, something you can't really measure) bang for buck turns into nothing but words.

Another ridiculous argument. Bang-for-your-buck is the basis and most heavily-weighed factor in all purchasing decisions. You're right, you can't quantify "peace of mind" because it's a nonsense factor made up to support that poor argument.

Of course you do. These are companies. They come and go, like the dodo. I have more compassion for the engineers losing their jobs than I do for AMD's corporate logo. I prefer ATI hardware, and when they go, welp they're gone. How does this affect my personal life? I'll stop using ATI products and move on to a proper replacement. It isn't like gaming will end.

Rooting for a team is cool, awesome, but once people start to feel some kind of connection for the team they have zero involvement with - that's when it starts to get weird (to me.) Haha.

People need to root for themselves. The minute you put yourself secondary to a company, you already lost. Competition makes the consumer the winner. The minute you start skewing it, you lose out.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'd actually welcome AMD going belly up. Imagine if all games were optimized for one architecture. Every game supporting Nvidia 3D and physx. They'd still have to offer value otherwise no one would upgrade.

 

[3DVagabond]

Why should others have to do the work to see if your statement has a speck of truth. If you make the statement you can attempt to back it up. I don't doubt someone may think that but I personally doubt many people expect it especially by Christmas, however I'm not going to claim this is how it is. You made the statement so I would expect you to back it up or else admit it was wrong and an attempt to paint them in a bad light (rather then try pretend it's true and blow off the criticism and avoid proving anything).

Obviously they lost market share and are seemingly in a bind, however it's not the first time the market share has changed dramatically etc.

He can't back it up. That's why he tried to leave the ball in my court. The problem is he doesn't have a ball to hand off.

I simply asked him for a source from those who believe AMD is going to file for bankruptcy before year's end. I thought that maybe he might of actually known something. Fortunately, it appears he was just trolling.

Look what happens when there's no competition. We had a small sample when nVidia was late this round. AMD would have had no reason to reduce prices or improve the performance if nVidia didn't release Kepler. That was what can happen when a company has a lead in the marketplace. Imagine they owned the marketplace?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

He can't back it up. That's why he tried to leave the ball in my court. The problem is he doesn't have a ball to hand off.

I simply asked him for a source from those who believe AMD is going to file for bankruptcy before year's end. I thought that maybe he might of actually known something. Fortunately, it appears he was just trolling.

Look what happens when there's no competition. We had a small sample when nVidia was late this round. AMD would have had no reason to reduce prices or improve the performance if nVidia didn't release Kepler. That was what can happen when a company has a lead in the marketplace. Imagine they owned the marketplace?

How'd that price gouging work out for them? Oh that's right they are on the brink of bankruptcy.

 

[3DVagabond]

I'd actually welcome AMD going belly up. Imagine if all games were optimized for one architecture. Every game supporting Nvidia 3D and physx. They'd still have to offer value otherwise no one would upgrade.

Yeah. They'd offer ~10% a generation like Intel does with their CPU's.

 

[3DVagabond]

How'd that price gouging work out for them? Oh that's right they are on the brink of bankruptcy.

Yeah, that's what happened. They were cruising along happy and healthy then they pulled "The Great SI Pricing Fiasco", and in a matter of months, they're out of business. Now Intel can breath easy because AMD was really a threat to them and was hurting them big time in the CPU market. /sarc.

You really need to get informed if you're going to run off about something in public.

 

[railven]

Wrong, and that's a ridiculous generalization. There's plenty of games out there that still bring GPU's to their knees. By analogy, just because Justin Bieber or any other crap artist sells millions of albums doesn't mean that the market is "shifting focus" and music is getting worse. Popularity has nothing to do with the quality of a product or experience. I've said it before and I'll say it again: people are idiots and sheep.

Notice I didn't say I agreed with Quantiy == Quality. However, I'm not going to pretend we, the PC enthusiast, are the crowd that shall be catered to. The Justin Bieber fans of the world (in this example Consolers) have pretty much forced the hand of devs. Sure, we get one, maybe two, games that bring PC's to their "knees" but that is out of how many games per year?

If PhysX is a useless feature because it is barely used - bring PC's to their knees is equally as useless.

People ARE idiots, that doesn't change what I said. I can bring a PC to it's knee with Crysis 1. I guess we haven't gone far in "innovation."

Another ridiculous argument. Bang-for-your-buck is the basis and most heavily-weighed factor in all purchasing decisions. You're right, you can't quantify "peace of mind" because it's a nonsense factor made up to support that poor argument.

Really? We're a select breed of people, we don't represent anyone but ourselves, and our ideologies of balancing products is not what works in the greater scope of things. Arguing things like "AMD has the better bang for buck" falls on mostly deaf ears as we look at finacial sheets with AMD getting the living crap beat out of them.

It only matters to us, and we use it to fight amongst each other, but rarely does this info escape. I recommend AMD graphic cards to people, but AMD's lack of assuring users they have a decent product cause them to back out and "peace of mind" kicks in when they get reinforced nVidia marketing.

Hey, if you think otherwise, by all means let AMD know the secret, cuz their "bang for buck" has done jack for them.

People need to root for themselves. The minute you put yourself secondary to a company, you already lost. Competition makes the consumer the winner. The minute you start skewing it, you lose out.

Basically. I always root for myself when I'm buying (which last three generations was AMD, woots for the red team!) However, in forums it always seems people root with their emotions for company-A (which is taking them for a spin) versus anything else.

Note: Bitcoin mining gives AMD a huge (HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE) "bang for buck" yet AMD is still getting their lights knocked out. "Peace of mind" versus "bang for buck" - sure, I know which one is winning.

 

[Keysplayr]

He can't back it up. That's why he tried to leave the ball in my court. The problem is he doesn't have a ball to hand off.

I simply asked him for a source from those who believe AMD is going to file for bankruptcy before year's end. I thought that maybe he might of actually known something. Fortunately, it appears he was just trolling.

Look what happens when there's no competition. We had a small sample when nVidia was late this round. AMD would have had no reason to reduce prices or improve the performance if nVidia didn't release Kepler. That was what can happen when a company has a lead in the marketplace. Imagine they owned the marketplace?

Vaggie, I expect AMD to announce bankruptcy at ANY time now. It wouldn't surprise me to hear it right after I type this post. You've read that AMD is exploring options. One or more of those options are SURELY methods of bankruptcy. No source, just common sense.
So, it's not really an "if" AMD will go bankrupt, is a "when". You are trying to stonewall me into committing to a Q4 announcement aren't you? Whatever you want. Do a google search for "AMD bankrupt". All the web is a-buzz with it. And you have the nerve to say I can't back it up? Q4? Maybe, maybe not. But it would not surprise me. In less than half a year, AMD will not have enough funds for day to day operations. For everyday AMD tries to hang on, investors lose more money. Market Cap down to 1.34B as of today. When they get down to 1.1B, it's over. Unless they fire everyone except Rory. 😀

 

[tviceman]

What if Nvidia keeps prices the same but only gives 15% performance increases each generation? That also means that game devs will slow down the already slow-paced graphics/physics innovation because hardware will lag behind otherwise.

While entirely possible, fortunately for consumers (and businesses), Intel is making a competitor out of themselves in the HPC space, and since Nvidia's GPU development mirrors their compute development, I doubt future GPU's from Nvidia would only introduce very minimal improvements, unless they start hitting the same performance wall you round-about say Intel is hitting now.

 

[3DVagabond]

Vaggie, I expect AMD to announce bankruptcy at ANY time now. It wouldn't surprise me to hear it right after I type this post. You've read that AMD is exploring options. One or more of those options are SURELY methods of bankruptcy. No source, just common sense.
So, it's not really an "if" AMD will go bankrupt, is a "when". You are trying to stonewall me into committing to a Q4 announcement aren't you? Whatever you want. Do a google search for "AMD bankrupt". All the web is a-buzz with it. And you have the balls to say I can't back it up? Q4? Maybe, maybe not. But it would not surprise me.

You already said it. I'm not trying to get you to commit to anything. If you would have said it's just your opinion, that would have answered my question. Listen, that's fine that it's your opinion. You are entitled to it. You said others believed that. I wondered if maybe there was some buzz amongst professional market analysts, or someone else with knowledge on the subject was predicting it before I assumed you were just trolling the thread.

You're getting overly involved in this. Nobody needs to be brave, or have balls. It's just the internet.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Yeah. They'd offer ~10% a generation like Intel does with their CPU's.

Can I ask what CPU you are using?

 

[Keysplayr]

You already said it. I'm not trying to get you to commit to anything. If you would have said it's just your opinion, that would have answered my question. Listen, that's fine that it's your opinion. You are entitled to it. You said others believed that. I wondered if maybe there was some buzz amongst professional market analysts, or someone else with knowledge on the subject was predicting it before I assumed you were just trolling the thread.

You're getting overly involved in this. Nobody needs to be brave, or have balls. It's just the internet.

Overly involved? Poll coming up.

 

[MrK6]

Notice I didn't say I agreed with Quantiy == Quality. However, I'm not going to pretend we, the PC enthusiast, are the crowd that shall be catered to. The Justin Bieber fans of the world (in this example Consolers) have pretty much forced the hand of devs. Sure, we get one, maybe two, games that bring PC's to their "knees" but that is out of how many games per year?

It's been like that for years. What games "brought PC's to their knees" in 2004? Doom 3 and HL2? That's a poor argument, especially when you consider the fact games now more than ever, obviously, take much more effort and time to have comparatively "better graphics" then previously. The fact that we're still only paying $50-60 for AAA games, sometimes less, is amazing and indicative of just how competitive the market is and how much better it has become for PC gamers.

If PhysX is a useless feature because it is barely used - bring PC's to their knees is equally as useless.

This is such a poor argument that you didn't even bother defending it. PhysX is a proprietary physics solution that is supported by less than half of the market. It's a poor selling point. Making a game look better no matter the hardware running it is a major selling point. Graphics have always been the mainstay of video game ratings and approvals. The fact that you would try to tie the two together is ridiculous.

People ARE idiots, that doesn't change what I said. I can bring a PC to it's knee with Crysis 1. I guess we haven't gone far in "innovation."

You just changed your argument again. Looks like hardware isn't as far ahead as you previously stated, is it?

Really? We're a select breed of people, we don't represent anyone but ourselves, and our ideologies of balancing products is not what works in the greater scope of things. Arguing things like "AMD has the better bang for buck" falls on mostly deaf ears as we look at finacial sheets with AMD getting the living crap beat out of them.

It only matters to us, and we use it to fight amongst each other, but rarely does this info escape. I recommend AMD graphic cards to people, but AMD's lack of assuring users they have a decent product cause them to back out and "peace of mind" kicks in when they get reinforced nVidia marketing.

Hey, if you think otherwise, by all means let AMD know the secret, cuz their "bang for buck" has done jack for them.

Bang-for-your-buck benefits the consumer, sometimes indirectly the company, but many times it can actually hurt them if they aren't generating enough revenue. This may very well be the case at AMD. But again, what a ridiculous argument.

Basically. I always root for myself when I'm buying (which last three generations was AMD, woots for the red team!) However, in forums it always seems people root with their emotions for company-A (which is taking them for a spin) versus anything else.

Note: Bitcoin mining gives AMD a huge (HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE) "bang for buck" yet AMD is still getting their lights knocked out. "Peace of mind" versus "bang for buck" - sure, I know which one is winning.

Again, I point you to the comment that "consumers are idiots."

You already said it. I'm not trying to get you to commit to anything. If you would have said it's just your opinion, that would have answered my question. Listen, that's fine that it's your opinion. You are entitled to it. You said others believed that. I wondered if maybe there was some buzz amongst professional market analysts, or someone else with knowledge on the subject was predicting it before I assumed you were just trolling the thread.

You're getting overly involved in this. Nobody needs to be brave, or have balls. It's just the internet.

At least the man is working hard for his payout.

 

[3DVagabond]

Can I ask what CPU you are using?

Intel, of course. 🙂

 

[AnandThenMan]

Do a google search for "AMD bankrupt". All the web is a-buzz with it. And you have the nerve to say I can't back it up? Q4? Maybe, maybe not. But it would not surprise me. In less than half a year, AMD will not have enough funds for day to day operations. For everyday AMD tries to hang on, investors lose more money. Market Cap down to 1.34B as of today. When they get down to 1.1B, it's over. Unless they fire everyone except Rory. 😀

I did just that. I found quite a few articles talking about it, but nothing saying AMD is going to go bankrupt in short order, especially by the end of the year. So, with all your apparent searching, how about you start backing up your statements? Post the articles that you Googled.

I understand that the PC market is slowing and Intel (INTC) is gaining market share over AMD; however, I don't think AMD is going out of business or anything and it shouldn't be priced as if it is going out of business. As of last quarter, AMD had $1.58 billion in cash and $2 billion in debt. Considering the company's market share of $2.48 billion, the company has plenty of cash, in addition to a lot of debt. As long as the company continues to generate positive cash flow, it shouldn't have trouble paying its debt as 75% of its debt is long term. The company's high inventories and declining pricing power will continue to be points of concern for the investors.
source
_______________________________________
Despite the steep decline in the stock, however, the company still has a market cap of $1.55 billion and a considerable amount of cash on its balance sheet. As of the end of September, AMD was holding $1.3 billion in cash and cash equivalents, making an imminent bankruptcy extremely unlikely.

source

I posted two sources, post what you found. :thumbsup:

 

[SirPauly]

Imho,

The part that is uneasy is how quickly the PC marketplace is evolving and may be moving towards mobile. Intel and AMD are reacting but AMD doesn't have the resources and may not be able to react quick enough.

GPU Desktop is competitive and leads in performance and price/performance but this can only do so much.

It's easy to play arm chair executive -- there is no risk or responsibility but executives like Rory Read do and talk about challenges and obstacles -- watching from the out side will be interesting!

 

[Shmee]

Here is an idea that might save AMD: Government subsidies? If there was ever a need for them, it is to keep one of the major GPU/CPU companies from going belly up and preventing a monopoly. I think fellow enthusiasts would generally agree, unfortunately business and government alike doesn't always cater to us as much as we would like.

Thoughts?

 

[Siberian]

Yeah. They'd offer ~10% a generation like Intel does with their CPU's.

Didn't AMD give us 15% for $550?

I don't think AMD is really helping any.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Here is an idea that might save AMD: Government subsidies?

Government resources would be better spent making sure businesses conduct themselves in a competitive, fair and legal manner. I would not be against intensives given to AMD, but the lobby dollars are what talk so I highly doubt that will happen to any meaningful degree.

 

[thilanliyan]

How'd that price gouging work out for them? Oh that's right they are on the brink of bankruptcy.

You should really check up a bit more on your financial as well card purchasing decisions...you don't seem to be getting your "facts" from any reputable and/or correct source.

FYI, as was stated, AMD is in trouble because of their CPU division, which was crushed the moment the Core series came out from Intel back in 2006. The GPU division (much smaller than the CPU division) is one of the few, if not only profitable divisions at AMD. The high pricing of the 7900 series has little to do with their financial situation, and would not have been their saviour even if they had priced them lower.

 

[Rvenger]

$550 would have been an acceptable price point IMO if the AMD 12.11 drivers were released at launch. But really no card should be over $350.

 

[Keysplayr]

I did just that. I found quite a few articles talking about it, but nothing saying AMD is going to go bankrupt in short order, especially by the end of the year. So, with all your apparent searching, how about you start backing up your statements? Post the articles that you Googled.

I posted two sources, post what you found. :thumbsup:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/850671-is-amd-going-out-of-business
http://www.benzinga.com/news/earnings/12/10/3011164/could-amd-go-bankrupt
http://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/AMD--Probability_Of_Bankruptcy
http://articles.marketwatch.com/2009-09-29/commentary/30699574_1_opteron-amd-drew-prairie
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticke...ard-Bankruptcy?tickers=AMD,LVS,S,M,GT,MYL,HTZ
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/32354-12-holy-crap-filed-chapter-bankruptcy

I can literally post dozens more. But I'm sure this will give you a good idea about the general consensus that AMD will be toast sooner than later.
And people are actually starting threads with the title "holy crap AMD filed for chapter 1 bankruptcy!" Which just goes to show that although it was not true, it was viable enough to make a believable thread title. This is why I say that I expect AMD to announce the bankruptcy at any time. It would "sound" like a logical step for them at this point.

 

[AnandThenMan]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/850671-is-amd-going-out-of-business
http://www.benzinga.com/news/earnings/12/10/3011164/could-amd-go-bankrupt
http://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/AMD--Probability_Of_Bankruptcy
http://articles.marketwatch.com/2009-09-29/commentary/30699574_1_opteron-amd-drew-prairie
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticke...ard-Bankruptcy?tickers=AMD,LVS,S,M,GT,MYL,HTZ
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/32354-12-holy-crap-filed-chapter-bankruptcy

I can literally post dozens more. But I'm sure this will give you a good idea about the general consensus that AMD will be toast sooner than later.
And people are actually starting threads with the title "holy crap AMD filed for chapter 1 bankruptcy!" Which just goes to show that although it was not true, it was viable enough to make a believable thread title. This is why I say that I expect AMD to announce the bankruptcy at any time. It would "sound" like a logical step for them at this point.

From the links you posted:

No analyst sees the company losing money anytime soon let alone going bankrupt. Most analysts covering the stock rate it as either "Buy" or "Hold" with the price targets ranging from $4 to $8 per share.

Despite the steep decline in the stock, however, the company still has a market cap of $1.55 billion and a considerable amount of cash on its balance sheet. As of the end of September, AMD was holding $1.3 billion in cash and cash equivalents, making an imminent bankruptcy extremely unlikely.

The Marketwatch link you posted is from 2009. You didn't read a single word of those links did you.

 

[Elfear]

Didn't AMD give us 15% for $550?

I don't think AMD is really helping any.

Pretty sure 41% > 15%.

Source

I'd actually welcome AMD going belly up. Imagine if all games were optimized for one architecture. Every game supporting Nvidia 3D and physx. They'd still have to offer value otherwise no one would upgrade.

IMO, the more widespread use of PhysX isn't worth the likely pathetic generational performance increases due to lack of competition.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Their(AMD's) GPU division had better survive. I don't think Intel will abuse an x86 monopoly, given they are competing with their older products, and pretty soon, with ARM(not counting Atom).

Nvidia, I am very concerned about though. Even in the face of competition, their prices for high end GPUs have often been (with some exceptions) beyond an equal performing AMD GPU. In the Mobile space, this is especially bad, as Nvidia's GTX 680M costs Twice as much as AMD's Radeon 7970M, while maintaining roughly a 10%-20% performance lead. Their equal pricing parts (high end still) performing below AMD's equal priced parts (high end again).

Nvidia, I think, will very likely maintain high prices should AMD's GPU division go under as there would literally be no competition whatsoever in the PC gaming GPU landscape.