AMD Zen “RYZEN” CPUs Detailed – 8 Cores, 3.4Ghz+ & Auto Overclocking With “XFR”

[bjt2]

I dont know not that long ( 18 stages according to anadtech*) it has 4 execution domains ( amd has 2 int/fp and intel 1) to keep execution complexity in check. It also decodes and retires 8 instructions a clock and has 4 load store ports ( two dedicated load, two shared L/store) , that extra store port compared to intel/amd is vital for those high SMT modes.


* http://www.anandtech.com/show/10435/assessing-ibms-power8-part-1/3

Now i get why power8/9 gains so little from 8 thread (4 thread are still a good gain on 2)... 8 retire/cycle, like zen and skylake that have 2 threads... 4 threads can still be supported with 8 retire, but not 8...

 

[krumme]

For what its worth; On the high level description of zen uarch notice amd mentions branch prediction two times just after smt.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10591...t-2-extracting-instructionlevel-parallelism/2
I mean i would asume that next to smt the branch predictor is the most important change. And as they didnt have smt before the most staightforward assumption would be that the branch predictor was where the biggest gain was seen vs prior uarch.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Now i get why power8/9 gains so little from 8 thread (4 thread are still a good gain on 2)... 8 retire/cycle, like zen and skylake that have 2 threads... 4 threads can still be supported with 8 retire, but not 8...

thats why SMT 4/8 are about when you are I/O / memory latency limited. Power 8 spends a lot of time running DB .

 

[StrangerGuy]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who cares only about low-end Zen SKUs. The dream will be 4C Zen for $100 on a $60 mobo with fully unlocked OC.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who cares only about low-end Zen SKUs. The dream will be 4C Zen for $100 on a $60 mobo with fully unlocked OC.

AMD at a recent investor conference:

Unidentified Company Representative

So, yes, I mean, as you mentioned this is a big refresh for you. What's the right type of market share to think about for the PC market for AMD, both next year, and then I guess, what's your longer-term target there?

Devinder Kumar

I think two ways to look at it. Today, we’re sub-10% overall. If you include the x86 product in the semi-custom game console space and obviously we count that in the – we’re above 10%, and that’s a captive market. So anything we sell there in terms of units is all counted in the next x86 CPU, but if you exclude that we’re sub-10%.

But I think it’s more important, at least, in the way we look at it over the last multiple number of years is, share is important from a unit share standpoint, but more important is a revenue share that you get and the margin dollars that are going to be derived from that.

So there was a time in the AMD world where chased share for the sake of share. And you can say, you have 15% to 20% market share from a unit standpoint, that's important. But I think, going back to what we just talked about in the desktop space, that is higher ASP, higher-margin product, higher mix. And from my standpoint, that's more important. So it’s more revenue share and the gross margin dollar that we can get.

Seems to me that segmentation/profit maximization per unit is the modus operandi. I don't think selling a $100 fully unlocked SKU, especially considering that AMD sells relatively weak quad core Steamroller APUs for more than this, is on the menu.

 

[krumme]

Entry cost. Fixed cost.
What decides price is the market and marginal cost. Amd dont have the luxury to segmentate the usual way.
I think 100 4c is a tad to low. 150 might be more like it looking at the results gunning for high end i3 consumers. We will know in half year.

Talking about it like its something you can decide for yourself is imo crazy. Amd have a wsa a fab to fill and the user will go Intel if amd dont give a tangible advantage. So lets see product quality. That especially goes for a 60 usd mb.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Entry cost. Fixed cost.
What decides price is the market and marginal cost. Amd dont have the luxury to segmentate the usual way.
I think 100 4c is a tad to low. 150 might be more like it looking at the results gunning for high end i3 consumers. We will know in half year.

Talking about it like its something you can decide for yourself is imo crazy. Amd have a wsa a fab to fill and the user will go Intel if amd dont give a tangible advantage. So lets see product quality. That especially goes for a 60 usd mb.

Competing on price is a dangerous game, because your competitor can compete on price, too. And in this case, the competitor has fabs to fill -- an Uber WSA, if you want to think of it like that

 

[PPB]

Competing on price is a dangerous game, because your competitor can compete on price, too. And in this case, the competitor has fabs to fill -- an Uber WSA, if you want to think of it like that

I know it might fill your deepest, oniric desires for Intel to lower CPU prices. After all, we can't get enough of the "I want AMD to compete, so my Intel goodiez are cheaper!!1!!one!"

But they don't do that, ever. Instead they switch gear and they throw you a bone. As in, Coffee Lake, without touching any prices of lower tiers whatsoever.

Coffee lake is not trying to reduce the price of 6c/12t CPU per se, only to make it more affordable by bundling it with a leaner platform (throwing mobo AIBs under the bus at that, too). Same thing is AMD doing with AM4.

The only thing Intel would do is probably contra revenue of some sort, or go back to their good ol' P4 era deeds with the big guys. Nothing really impactful for the DYI PC tho.

AMD is doing it wrong in this sense to let the APU go last, as this was probably the product with more impact in the consumer market to begin with. Intel would have adjusted by 2h 2017, for good or bad.

 

[krumme]

Competing on price is a dangerous game, because your competitor can compete on price, too. And in this case, the competitor has fabs to fill -- an Uber WSA, if you want to think of it like that

Naa.
We all know the bank AMD uses.
Its the bank of mubadala.
And mubadala and especially its less than competent beneficiaries dont care about amd but want gf investment to blossom and look like the second comming of.. ehh an old man with a beard.
I try to get this message through but people still think this is a find optimal x, excel on desk excercise

 

[TheELF]

AMD is doing it wrong in this sense to let the APU go last, as this was probably the product with more impact in the consumer market to begin with. Intel would have adjusted by 2h 2017, for good or bad.

It's good for them to wait,they said at the presentation that they are working(or going to work) with MS+sony on the next consoles so the first zen apu should be designed for those,after that amd can just scale the design up or down for the desktop market or even sell the same sku if they can get enough volume,it would at least help them in filling enough orders for the glofo contract.
Now they have to butcher two desktop apus and add GCN cores which is probably why they have such low margins for the console skus.
This way they would sell them a "standard" sku with way better margins,consoles are guaranteed sales desktops are not.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

I know it might fill your deepest, oniric desires for Intel to lower CPU prices. After all, we can't get enough of the "I want AMD to compete, so my Intel goodiez are cheaper!!1!!one!"

But they don't do that, ever. Instead they switch gear and they throw you a bone. As in, Coffee Lake, without touching any prices of lower tiers whatsoever.

Coffee lake is not trying to reduce the price of 6c/12t CPU per se, only to make it more affordable by bundling it with a leaner platform (throwing mobo AIBs under the bus at that, too). Same thing is AMD doing with AM4.

The only thing Intel would do is probably contra revenue of some sort, or go back to their good ol' P4 era deeds with the big guys. Nothing really impactful for the DYI PC tho.

Exactly. Intel does not lower prices, and it's not in their best interest to lower prices. They will make more money by simply ignoring AMD. Losing a little market share is better than losing 10% on their margins and validating the quality AMD's new lineup.

If it's dangerous for anyone, it's dangerous for intel, because they will be pushing the only other competitor out of the market, and the various govts of the world won't take kindly to that sort of thing.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Exactly. Intel does not lower prices, and it's not in their best interest to lower prices. They will make more money by simply ignoring AMD. Losing a little market share is better than losing 10% on their margins and validating the quality AMD's new lineup.

Intel's margins are highly dependent on factory utilization.

 

[Arachnotronic]

AMD is doing it wrong in this sense to let the APU go last, as this was probably the product with more impact in the consumer market to begin with. Intel would have adjusted by 2h 2017, for good or bad.

Zen was targeted first at the server market, so the desktop part just fell out of that.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

Intel's margins are highly dependent on factory utilization.

AMD''s revenue is as well. They have to buy wafers from GF regardless.

 

[Dresdenboy]

AMD''s revenue is as well. They have to buy wafers from GF regardless.

But if that (fixed costs like) quota gets filled, the lower margin limit is set (together with the other fixed costs).

 

[SpaceBeer]

Well, they can't sell less CPUs than they did this year :|

 

[beginner99]

Exactly. Intel does not lower prices, and it's not in their best interest to lower prices. They will make more money by simply ignoring AMD. Losing a little market share is better than losing 10% on their margins and validating the quality AMD's new lineup.

If it's dangerous for anyone, it's dangerous for intel, because they will be pushing the only other competitor out of the market, and the various govts of the world won't take kindly to that sort of thing.

Yeah plus even if Zen is a full success (performance/power use) I doubt GF can produce enough chips to suit demand so prices will natural go up without intel having to do anything.

 

[davidthemaster3]

Have there been any details for Zen in mobile?

 

[Phynaz]

No