[AMD] World's First Shipping FreeSync-Enabled Displays (CES)

[Gloomy]

GSync's current behavior as it gets close to the monitor's refresh rate is worse:

Why is there less lag in CS:GO at 120fps than 143fps for G-SYNC?

We currently suspect that fps_max 143 is frequently colliding near the G-SYNC frame rate cap, possibly having something to do with NVIDIA’s technique in polling the monitor whether the monitor is ready for the next refresh. I did hear they are working on eliminating polling behavior, so that eventually G-SYNC frames can begin delivering immediately upon monitor readiness, even if it means simply waiting a fraction of a millisecond in situations where the monitor is nearly finished with its previous refresh.
I did not test other fps_max settings such as fps_max 130, fps_max 140, which might get closer to the G-SYNC cap without triggering the G-SYNC capped-out slow down behavior. Normally, G-SYNC eliminates waiting for the monitor’s next refresh interval:

G-SYNC Not Capped Out:
Input Read -> Render Frame -> Display Refresh Immediately
When G-SYNC is capped out at maximum refresh rate, the behavior is identical to VSYNC ON, where the game ends up waiting for the refresh.

G-SYNC Capped Out
Input Read -> Render Frame -> Wait For Monitor Refresh Cycle -> Display Refresh

http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/

At the very least FSync will let you turn VSync off and suffer tearing or if you choose you can rely on a frame rate limiter. GSync just goes bananas

There's also the question of what people actually expected either technology to do once it hit the monitor's limit. It's not like they can overclock the monitor and get more Hz.

 

[bystander36]

GSync's current behavior as it gets close to the monitor's refresh rate is worse:



http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/

At the very least FSync will let you turn VSync off and suffer tearing or if you choose you can rely on a frame rate limiter. GSync just goes bananas

There's also the question of what people actually expected either technology to do once it hit the monitor's limit. It's not like they can overclock the monitor and get more Hz.

What do you mean, goes bananas? It just behaves like V-sync does at maxed FPS. And a FPS cap also fixes the problem. Though the polling likely means you have to lower the FPS cap more than it would with Freesync.

 

[Gloomy]

What do you mean, goes bananas? It just behaves like V-sync does at maxed FPS. And a FPS cap also fixes the problem. Though the polling likely means you have to lower the FPS cap more than it would with Freesync.

Well the input lag increases as you approach the monitor's refresh rate limit. That's really odd behavior and nothing like VSync.

 

[bystander36]

Well the input lag increases as you approach the monitor's refresh rate limit. That's really odd behavior and nothing like VSync.

It is exactly like V-sync, and for the exact same reason. It also adds the same amount of latency. The reason it happens before hitting your refresh rate is related to the little bit of extra polling latency. Maybe you are not aware, but if you hit your refresh rate with V-sync and triple buffering at least, you gain a full frame worth of latency. It basically results in a look ahead system. All SLI and Crossfire systems end up with triple buffering like it or not.

And yes, it does kind of suck that it happens, but it is not worse than V-sync. It ends up the same if you hit your near your refresh rate. So if you get one, you will need a frame rate cap.

It'll be great to find out if Freesync has the same problem. It likely will, but not unless you get closer or directly at the refresh rate, which would be an improvement.

 

[Creig]

G-Sync supports every possible refresh range. It only depends on the panel.

Are you certain? I couldn't find anything except references that basically said the same thing:

"The frame rate of the monitor is still limited in much the same way it is without G-SYNC, but it adjusts dynamically to a refresh rate as low as 30Hz (current models) to match the frame rate of the game."

I am unsure whether this means that current model monitors approved for G-sync only go down to 30 Hz or current models of G-sync only go down to 30 Hz.

 

[5150Joker]

Well the input lag increases as you approach the monitor's refresh rate limit. That's really odd behavior and nothing like VSync.

Just so you know, blurbuster's method of testing input lag isn't exactly the best way to do it. Last I read, he uses an LED to measure when the mouse is pressed and uses a high frame camera to capture the resulting action on screen. Instead if you really want to test input lag you need it internally measured from the game engine itself, not what's displayed onscreen.

 

[Gloomy]

Just so you know, blurbuster's method of testing input lag isn't exactly the best way to do it. Last I read, he uses an LED to measure when the mouse is pressed and uses a high frame camera to capture the resulting action on screen. Instead if you really want to test input lag you need it internally measured from the game engine itself, not what's displayed onscreen.

What is displayed onscreen is the only way to measure the screen's input lag.

 

[Silverforce11]

Just so you know, blurbuster's method of testing input lag isn't exactly the best way to do it. Last I read, he uses an LED to measure when the mouse is pressed and uses a high frame camera to capture the resulting action on screen. Instead if you really want to test input lag you need it internally measured from the game engine itself, not what's displayed onscreen.

?? What's displayed on screen is THE method that matters to YOU, a human being with eyes to view the resulting output. Hence, the lagtime matters to when you act and when you perceive the output.

 

[5150Joker]

?? What's displayed on screen is THE method that matters to YOU, a human being with eyes to view the resulting output. Hence, the lagtime matters to when you act and when you perceive the output.

I don't think anyone can reliably perceive a change in 1-2 ms. The method of measuring it with LED fedback and 1000 fps camera with the same game is ok but still not ideal.

 

[ocre]

I think he just picked poor wording.

Input lag often comes along with sync issues with a games engines internal clock.

As for the discussion,
It's nice to see freesync is starting to make an appearance. Can't wait till it gets in the hands of reviewers. It finally is starting to look promising. Been waiting for ever for this. I really hope we turn a page. It doesn't matter who started it or how it starts. A future without tearing is better for everyone. I hope the days of displays being locked on a preset Hz finally become locked away in the past.

It's still very very early and I fully expect things will evolve still.

But I am glad to see that the ball is moving. A better future seems to be on its way.

 

[Silverforce11]

I don't think anyone can reliably perceive a change in 1-2 ms. The method of measuring it with LED fedback and 1000 fps camera with the same game is ok but still not ideal.

Its low in the ideal FPS range. But the problem referred to was when that fps range exceeds Gsync. It adds ~16ms of lag which as you know, is 1 extra frame if its 60 fps, lots of twitch gamers declare they can tell the difference of 8ms.

With Freesync, users can choose to enable vsync on top of it or turn it off and get fast latency but suffer tearing. It's an extra choice.

 

[5150Joker]

Its low in the ideal FPS range. But the problem referred to was when that fps range exceeds Gsync. It adds ~16ms of lag which as you know, is 1 extra frame if its 60 fps, lots of twitch gamers declare they can tell the difference of 8ms.

With Freesync, users can choose to enable vsync on top of it or turn it off and get fast latency but suffer tearing. It's an extra choice.

We haven't even seen Freesync out in the wild yet, how are you coming to these conclusions? Also, I own a G-Sync display and I haven't seen any input lag when the fps hits 143-144 and I mainly play twitch shooters. Finally, some of the top games (e.g. CS: Go and BF4) allow you to limit max fps.

 

[tential]

We haven't even seen Freesync out in the wild yet, how are you coming to these conclusions? Also, I own a G-Sync display and I haven't seen any input lag when the fps hits 143-144 and I mainly play twitch shooters. Finally, some of the top games (e.g. CS: Go and BF4) allow you to limit max fps.

It was stated in the articles in this thread that you have the option to turn Vsync off/on from AMD when you're out of freesync range. Just more flexibility.

The differences between Gsync/Freesync are so freaking minuscule it's just a way for people to go "My team is better see!!!!!!" and fight over it.

 

[Skurge]

Just make sure your FPS is above 40 and set an FPS cap (that will be introduced in the next driver) to whatever your monitor's max refresh rate is. Problem solved.

 

[Creig]

The differences between Gsync/Freesync are so freaking minuscule it's just a way for people to go "My team is better see!!!!!!" and fight over it.

Well, there's always going to be the price difference.

Nvidia - Custom circuitry required, fine tuning necessary for each panel, royalties to Nvidia

AMD -

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Google translate is terrible. What the paragraph says is the free synch screen looks a loot more smoother and fluid than the normal one. However, due to the nature of the case, it can't be well demonstrated trough video. Just like with g-sync, if you have the chance to take a look do so and estimate for yourself weather it's good for you. During the press conference they were not able to get their hands on the monitor and play around with it, also driver options and settings are not known for now.

It's really late here, so if I messed up a bit I am sorry.

I remember watching the G-Sync the video a long time ago and thinking no big deal. Then I got it and was blown away. It really is that good.

An adaptive sync monitor should be on top of everyone's list this year as far as hardware upgrades go.

 

[f1sherman]

Adaptive-Sync is capable of operating in the single digit Hz range whereas the lowest G-sync can go is 30 Hz.

You keep mentioning this 9Hz, and I don;t know why, because...
first its unusable if you have any idea what 9Hz means,
and 2nd that theoretical capability is a poor consolation when in reality only one ASync monitor can do 30Hz, and the rest is 40+ Hz

 

[AnandThenMan]

Considering most if not all monitors will eventually get A-sync I don't see what the issue is. If some don't go down to 30hz or whatever just wait until one comes out that has the specs you want. If course if you need a monitor right now that's different, but currently it is about the worst possible time to buy a new monitor.

 

[gorobei]

24 fps or 23.97 is probably the lowest you would need to go for watching older films from dvd etc to avoid 3:2 pulldown. and obviously no one in the pc masterrace would ever deign to play a game where they would get minimums below 24. so 30 fps doesnt sound too off the mark.

 

[Skurge]

You keep mentioning this 9Hz, and I don;t know why, because...
first its unusable if you have any idea what 9Hz means,
and 2nd that theoretical capability is a poor consolation when in reality only one ASync monitor can do 30Hz, and the rest is 40+ Hz

The benQ monitor was the only one to go as low as 30Hz, it was also the only display with a TN panel on show.

There were two other I believe. A 24 inch and a 27 inch. I don't know if persistence on TN monitors allow then to do 30hz vs TN, PLS and VA

 

[antihelten]

You keep mentioning this 9Hz, and I don;t know why, because...
first its unusable if you have any idea what 9Hz means,

9Hz is not unusable. Sure no one would want to play at 9 fps average, but frame rate spikes down to 9Hz is hardly unheard of, and being able to go down to 9Hz will make said spikes slightly less jarring.

 

[cen1]

http://www.pcper.com/news/Displays/...2560x1440-IPS-120-Hz-Variable-Refresh-Monitor

1. Interesting
2. Perfect monitor?

 

[ShintaiDK]

2. Perfect monitor?

It sure is a candidate for it. 27", 1440p, 120hz, IPS, DP1.2a, 599$.

The only issue seems to be the mimimum FPS needed (40).

 

[sontin]

After watching the PCPer video and reading the Anandtech report AMD is bringing Panel Self Refresh to the external market without the "self".

The Samsung monitor shows the current hz number which is always the same as the frame number/time.
So i guess they're changing the hz in the vblank intervall and set the display to a new refresh rate.

We need hand on reports to see if this is practicable for gaming.

 

[Black Octagon]

Awesome. Very reasonable price IMHO and I am glad to hear it confirmed that AMD will neither blacklist nor whitelist for FreeSync monitors. Wish we had more details about the exact panel being used.