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AMD Ryzen Gen 2 Set For Q2 2018

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,899
5,847
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Not everyone is buying AIOs, I wouldn't.
True. But based on OEM behavior, when using AMD products, they may simply not want "desktop" APU products when they can just us an R3 + dGPU or what have you. I could be very wrong here . . . but it would not surprise me if Kaveri proves to be the last true mainstream "desktop" APU released on any kind of schedule (yes, I'm looking at you Bristol Ridge, the 2015 APU released in 2017).

Or to put it differently, AMD may be seeing reduced/non-existant demand for their APUs in the 45w+ category. Which kind of makes me sad. But they had their chance to prove their worth (read: HSA et al) and that has yet to pan out on the consumer side.
 
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amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
836
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Not everyone is buying AIOs, I wouldn't.
I'd also never buy an AIO unless it had hdmi-in plus a switch to run it purely as a monitor.

I think there will be some BGA APU Ryzen AIOs coming up, but AM4 is far too big fir APUs not to make a splash there. (Most people don't need a beefy gaming card, and it's the perfect way to lower build cost and still get 1030/rx550 type performance.)

Secondly, RR APUs are needed to fill quad core demand (which Summit and Pinnacle fills poorly).

What surprises me is how fast Ryzen refresh is arriving in 2018; I'd never have guessed March (Pinnacle Ridge). https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-2-set-march-2018-launch-12nm-support-higher-core-memory-clock-speeds/
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,899
5,847
136
I actually expected Feb. 2018 for Pinnacle Ridge but whatever, March is fine too.

I agree that RR does have a place on AM4, it's just that AMD's roadmaps don't seem to have it on there right now. And given OEM behavior, I think AMD is just going to leave BR there for awhile and focus on mobile for RR. Which sucks but what're you going to do?
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
662
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I noticed that as well. It may be that they just don't think that there's a market for a separate SKU, or that their USFF products will just be Ryzen Mobile APUs on the tiny boards. Either way, I'm interested in seeing what the Ryzen 3 Mobile APU actually looks like? (will it be 4 cores with no SMT, or 2 cores with SMT and either with far fewer GPU cores?) As for Ryzen "Gaming" in the mobile space, I am suspicious that it won't be an APU and instead will be specifically binned Pinnacle Ridge dies that are used on laptops that have dGPUs. Combined with a mobile VEGA or NAVI product on 12nm, you could get substantial gaming performance on a mobile platform for reasonable power demands. By then, there should be a dGPU+hbm package that should be able to live reasonably well in a laptop (for footprint and thermal reasons as it saves board space from the off package VRAM).
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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I noticed that as well. It may be that they just don't think that there's a market for a separate SKU, or that their USFF products will just be Ryzen Mobile APUs on the tiny boards. Either way, I'm interested in seeing what the Ryzen 3 Mobile APU actually looks like? (will it be 4 cores with no SMT, or 2 cores with SMT and either with far fewer GPU cores?) As for Ryzen "Gaming" in the mobile space, I am suspicious that it won't be an APU and instead will be specifically binned Pinnacle Ridge dies that are used on laptops that have dGPUs. Combined with a mobile VEGA or NAVI product on 12nm, you could get substantial gaming performance on a mobile platform for reasonable power demands. By then, there should be a dGPU+hbm package that should be able to live reasonably well in a laptop (for footprint and thermal reasons as it saves board space from the off package VRAM).
AMD marketing dept should take a hard look at Intel's Coffee Lake desktop CPUs. Those are selling like hot cakes, someone like my dad would be very happy to have a i3-8100. So a Ryzen APU would be perfect for him depending on the Linux support.
 

USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,517
745
136
People need to look at the slide again - it says premium desktop and mobile. A desktop APU won't be a premium product tier.
 
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Tuna-Fish

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2011
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your above argument was a similar to saying ThreadRipper or Epyc can't exist
It's not. Every single Zeppelin die has 4 PHYs that can be used for infinity fabric. If you could only examine a Ryzen CPU, but got a good annotated die shot of it, you could predict ThreadRipper and Epyc. RR does not have the PHYs for HBM. The fact that we know this means that there cannot be a RR with HBM SKU, because there is simply no way to connect it to the die.
 

daveybrat

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jan 31, 2000
5,328
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Ughh, i just bought a new 16GB kit of DDR4 and an EVGA 650Watt power supply during Black Friday sales. I was going to finally 'upgrade' to either a new Ryzen or CFL, but now i'm tempted to just wait to see what Ryzen 2 looks like. I'm in no hurry and ram prices just keep going up, so my kit can wait.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,463
2,068
136
True. But based on OEM behavior, when using AMD products, they may simply not want "desktop" APU products when they can just us an R3 + dGPU or what have you. I could be very wrong here . . . but it would not surprise me if Kaveri proves to be the last true mainstream "desktop" APU released on any kind of schedule (yes, I'm looking at you Bristol Ridge, the 2015 APU released in 2017).

Or to put it differently, AMD may be seeing reduced/non-existant demand for their APUs in the 45w+ category. Which kind of makes me sad. But they had their chance to prove their worth (read: HSA et al) and that has yet to pan out on the consumer side.
I would imagine not every RR can hit performance targets in the 15W TDP. There are likely plenty of chips that need more voltage to be stable and these will be the desktop chips. Global Foundries likely doesn’t have enough capacity for AMD to make a separate line of chips and they’ve already got enough irons in the fire and server chips are going to have priority due to margins being substantially better than desktop APUs.

The real question is whether or not these chips end up OEM only.
 

turtile

Senior member
Aug 19, 2014
516
144
116
AGAIN:

RR

DIE

HAS

NO

HBM

PHY

Got it?
Reread my post. I specifically wrote that it only makes sense to use the full 12 units in the die at a higher clock since they would need to create something similar to the chip made with Intel.
 

Yotsugi

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2017
1,029
486
106
Reread my post. I specifically wrote that it only makes sense to use the full 12 units in the die at a higher clock since they would need to create something similar to the chip made with Intel.
RR dies has 11 nCUs, not 12.
And no, even 45W SKU won't compete against KBL-G.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,899
5,847
136
People need to look at the slide again - it says premium desktop and mobile. A desktop APU won't be a premium product tier.
Okay . . . we'll see if AMD decides to make some Raven Ridge SKUs to replace Bristol Ridge. It'd be nice if they did, but if they think OEMs will reject the chips or deliberately cripple them, then they may just abandon the category.

I don't think AMD is falling all over itself for the chance to take control of the low-end desktop market that it basically ceded to Intel back when Intel released the 4560 (granted, that was a hell of a deal, and Intel seem to have made things worse for themselves since). If they do, it appears they want to do it with R3s and cheap dGPUs.

Ughh, i just bought a new 16GB kit of DDR4 and an EVGA 650Watt power supply during Black Friday sales. I was going to finally 'upgrade' to either a new Ryzen or CFL, but now i'm tempted to just wait to see what Ryzen 2 looks like. I'm in no hurry and ram prices just keep going up, so my kit can wait.
I bought RAM + NVMe drive five months in advance of Ryzen. You did right. Just hold out for Pinnacle Ridge.

I would imagine not every RR can hit performance targets in the 15W TDP. There are likely plenty of chips that need more voltage to be stable and these will be the desktop chips. Global Foundries likely doesn’t have enough capacity for AMD to make a separate line of chips and they’ve already got enough irons in the fire and server chips are going to have priority due to margins being substantially better than desktop APUs.

The real question is whether or not these chips end up OEM only.
But what're the max clocks and TDPs going to be for those chips? I mean, if we're going full-blow desktop APU here, the top-of-the-line chips will have unlocked multipliers and 95W TDPs. I don't think Bristol Ridge goes past 65W TDP, and it makes a lot of sacrifices to get down there (plus AMD delayed prioritization of XV chips so it could fill out Carrizo orders instead, and then sat on BR for a year for most markets except some parts of Europe and Asia).

Well, DDR4 is not exactly a fitting memory for GPUs.
Yet another reason why I suspect we may not see desktop Raven Ridge at all.
 
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amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
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Makes no sense, OEMs boxes or NAS would love an APU.
Besides, desktop RR was on the same roadmap as PR.
RR is guaranteed on AM4. In previous roadmaps RR mobile launch this year, and RR desktop launch early 2018. Given the better bandwidth over fm2+ and higher shader count, and how significant the savings are over discrete video, RR desktop APUs are not only guaranteed, but will be high volume sellers.

I expect top RR GPU (704 SPs) to outperform rx 550, esp if GPU is unlocked.

It is simply a matter of time for accumulating the supply. We've seen this before; binning, packaging, accumulating and distributing takes months. We know the first RR silicon has made it to OEMs just recently (2700u 2500u). So wait 2.5 months at least for RR boxed AM4; end Feb or early March. Hopefully a few weeks before the 12nm Pinnacle Ridge Ryzn 7 launch.
 
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moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
2,306
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I just think a desktop RR APU doesn't really fit in the market right now. OEMs (that AMD is now focused on pursuing in the mainstream and server market) can easily use the existing mobile RR APU for their ready made systems. And the DIY computer market will by the majority continue to prefer the existing iGPU-less Ryzen models unless the APU brings further advantages. We'll have to see what USPs Ryzen Gaming brings to the table, a desktop APU may be built upon that.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
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I just think a desktop RR APU doesn't really fit in the market right now. OEMs (that AMD is now focused on pursuing in the mainstream and server market) can easily use the existing mobile RR APU for their ready made systems. And the DIY computer market will by the majority continue to prefer the existing iGPU-less Ryzen models unless the APU brings further advantages. We'll have to see what USPs Ryzen Gaming brings to the table, a desktop APU may be built upon that.
I disagree about RR not fitting in today's market, especially if if a quad core one is priced at $90. That will give both the G4600 and the i3-8100 a good run.
 

Yotsugi

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2017
1,029
486
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I just think a desktop RR APU doesn't really fit in the market right now. OEMs (that AMD is now focused on pursuing in the mainstream and server market) can easily use the existing mobile RR APU for their ready made systems. And the DIY computer market will by the majority continue to prefer the existing iGPU-less Ryzen models unless the APU brings further advantages. We'll have to see what USPs Ryzen Gaming brings to the table, a desktop APU may be built upon that.
They very much do fit into current market and offer high-performance APU for AM4 platform.
I disagree about RR not fitting in today's market, especially if if a quad core one is priced at $90. That will give both the G4600 and the i3-8100 a good run.
$90? For ~209mm^2 die?
That's margins thinner than the consoles.
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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They very much do fit into current market and offer high-performance APU for AM4 platform.

$90? For ~209mm^2 die?
That's margins thinner than the consoles.
Sorry I wasn't keeping up with the die sizes.
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,709
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I expect top RR GPU (704 SPs) to outperform rx 550, esp if GPU is unlocked.
How do you expect that to happen?
At 3200MHz DDR4 Raven has 51.2GB/s of shared bandwidth.
RX 550 has 112GB/s of discrete bandwidth.

It has 3 CUs less as well, but that difference is totally meaningless.

There is no way Raven can come even close to RX 550.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,363
641
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Ughh, i just bought a new 16GB kit of DDR4 and an EVGA 650Watt power supply during Black Friday sales. I was going to finally 'upgrade' to either a new Ryzen or CFL, but now i'm tempted to just wait to see what Ryzen 2 looks like. I'm in no hurry and ram prices just keep going up, so my kit can wait.
One of us... One of us....
 

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