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AMD Ryzen 5 2400G and Ryzen 3 2200G APUs performance unveiled

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BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
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I have tried instal Raven Ridge APU on my windows 7 64bit, worked perfectly with Ryzen 5 1500X before. After bios update for RR support and swap Ryzen for RR system failed boot to windows..... I tried all SATA ports because I thought it wont boot because of M2 SSD disk which is connected directly to the CPU, so I made disc clone on sata SSD and connected it to the Sata ports from Promontory bridge. It doesnt help, system hangs a while after bios post when window animations starts. Then it boots again and said "required device is missing" "use installation disk and repair your computer". I tried everything but I was not able to load win7 system with RR. What is so different inside of this APU from Ryzen CPU ? Is there any way to make it work ? I dont really like win10. Could you test it Stilt please ? Maybe you will figure out, what is the problem. Note: with win 10 fresh installation APU is working flawlesly.
Some hints:-

- How is SATA set in the BIOS, AHCI or RAID? If you change from one to the other after an install without changing a setting in the registry first, then Windows will often not boot. Double check that your recent BIOS update didn't change SATA Mode (IDE/AHCI/RAID) from however you had it set up without you realizing. That can cause precisely the same hang on boot you describe.

- Board drivers like SATA, USB 3 / XHCI, LAN, audio, Wi-Fi, etc, shouldn't change at all for a simple CPU swap on the same board. But make sure the chipset drivers are the latest version as it might contain something APU related. If W10 chipset drivers are a newer version than W7 (especially around time of APU release), then try installing those onto W7. Reason being this Coffee Lake on Win 7 guide explains that the "W10 only" Intel chipset drivers are actually W7-8 compatible INF files, so it's possible W10 Ryzen chipset drivers on W7 may work the same way).

- If above fails, then create a "slipstreamed" W7 install (with XHCI & NVMe drivers) onto a USB stick / DVD-R, then test how a fresh W7 install works onto the SATA drive.

What I personally would have expected to happen is for the APU's to boot up fine and show the iGPU as a "Standard VGA Adapter" in Device Manager, but with no supported GPU drivers you'd simply not be able to use the APU for gaming (no hardware acceleration, etc) and for it to be stuck with like a VESA compatible "VGA Adapter". That's pretty much what happens with Coffee Lake on W7 (everything works except the iGPU).

Best of luck. I'd be interested in seeing if anyone else can get these to work on W7.
 

kallisX

Member
Sep 29, 2016
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27
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I don't see why that is a problem. Microsoft blocked Windows 7 and 8.1 installs on new CPUs from receiving security updates. No reason for office computers connected to the internet to not use Windows 10.
i case your not aware, W10 may be the biggest spyware in history. which is probably the only reason modern equipment is moving away from 7/8.
would you let me install cameras and microphones in your home? no? i promise im not going to use it unless there is "probable" cause of you committing a future crime!

"Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back"
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
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i case your not aware, W10 may be the biggest spyware in history. which is probably the only reason modern equipment is moving away from 7/8.
would you let me install cameras and microphones in your home? no? i promise im not going to use it unless there is "probable" cause of you committing a future crime!

"Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back"
Well there is always Linux or one of the BSDs.
 
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nathanddrews

Graphics Cards, CPU Moderator
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Aug 9, 2016
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I did boot up Stellaris at 4k and on the lowest settings it seems playable enough in my late game save.
That is nice to know that at least one game is actually playable at 4K with low settings on Raven Ridge. However I am a bit supprised though.
I appreciate testing 4K even with low end hardware. For every newer game I play like Destiny 2, I also love playing old games like Halo PC (2003), which runs at like 350fps @ 4K max settings with minimal effort. Lots of emulators are also easy to scale to 4K. I dunno, seems like many folks will only accept 4K gaming as: *Current Year* Games at 4K Ultra 60fps. There's so much middle ground to be had.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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I appreciate testing 4K even with low end hardware. For every newer game I play like Destiny 2, I also love playing old games like Halo PC (2003), which runs at like 350fps @ 4K max settings with minimal effort. Lots of emulators are also easy to scale to 4K. I dunno, seems like many folks will only accept 4K gaming as: *Current Year* Games at 4K Ultra 60fps. There's so much middle ground to be had.
If I brought a 4K display I would be happy with decent framerates at 4K even at low settings considering that I'm using Linux with a GTX 970. I was looking at the TCL 4K 43" TV last year.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,251
855
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Did Sony stopped Microsoft release PS4 Pro console killer APU in Xbox One X Console?

Did Sony and Microsoft stopped Intel from designing Console killer chip?

Its one of strangest concerns I have ever read on any technological forum, to be honest...
Microsoft and Sony are now mayor clients for AMD, its naive to belive they dont have a pull when it comes to new PC products.

BTW, i dont think Sony bothers about the Xbox performance. pc has FAR more games and at better price. a $200 HBM APU with far more power than the PS4 it will mean the entere market will be flooded with custom consoles running steam at a far better price and performance than any attempt so far, and i cant talk about piracy but you know what that means as well.
 

nathanddrews

Graphics Cards, CPU Moderator
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Aug 9, 2016
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If I brought a 4K display I would be happy with decent framerates at 4K even at low settings considering that I'm using Linux with a GTX 970. I was looking at the TCL 4K 43" TV last year.
The GTX 970 is pretty capable at 4K (see my rignature). I can play a lot of newer games (2013-2017) at between 30 and 60fps with a range of settings between low/med to med/high, but older games (2012 and prior) can usually be max/ultra settings 4K60. My GT 1030 setup is a mixed bag with 4K, old games (pre-2011) usually run at or above 60fps with med/high settings, but many newer games can get above 30fps with low settings. I'm repeating myself here, but once I can get official confirmation/drivers for 4K Netflix/Amazon streaming from independent reviews and a list of compatible motherboards, I'm definitely building a 2200G system.

It sounds like Q2 is when everything will fall into place: 400-series motherboards are coming out, DDR4 pricing is expected to drop, and AMD's 4K DRM PlayReady drivers are supposed to be released. It might be about time to sell/give away my Core 2 Quad machines... LOL
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,837
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i case your not aware, W10 may be the biggest spyware in history. which is probably the only reason modern equipment is moving away from 7/8.
would you let me install cameras and microphones in your home? no? i promise im not going to use it unless there is "probable" cause of you committing a future crime!

"Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back"
I'm well aware of the things W10 does, but that does not mean that hardware vendors must continually keep supporting W7/8 when Microsoft themselves are making them EOL and dropping support left and right.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,457
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Microsoft and Sony are now mayor clients for AMD, its naive to belive they dont have a pull when it comes to new PC products.

BTW, i dont think Sony bothers about the Xbox performance. pc has FAR more games and at better price. a $200 HBM APU with far more power than the PS4 it will mean the entere market will be flooded with custom consoles running steam at a far better price and performance than any attempt so far, and i cant talk about piracy but you know what that means as well.
Microsoft and Sony may have some agreement as far as their custom APUs but I doubt it would limit AMD to only produce weaker solutions in the end. I don't really see the argument of using the console vs the pc market.

The biggest issue with a monster APU would be how the market would place a value on it I'd imagine. Combining the power of a $250 class CPU with a $300 class GPU for example equates to ???....That would be the real debate in the end.

Looks like my local microcenter got a couple of 2400G's back in stock, 2200G is showing 10 plus still. I'm really glad I sold my 16GB DDR4 kit a week or so ago as I'd probably be building a rig I don't really need anyways.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,042
546
126
As for this Netflix 4K stuff (and 4K in general), that's actually the main reason I'm interested in these APUs.

If I were to buy another business machine, it would either be an AMD APU or else an Intel Core i3/i5/i7 APU, again without dGPU, cuz those already support 4K and HEVC and the appropriate DRM. I don't really care that the GPU part of Intel offerings are vastly slower than the AMD APU offerings.

The fact that you can game lightly on an AMD APU is great, but probably more important in the greater market is basic business computing needs but with proper multi-media support.

That's why I would be surprised if the 2200g does not support Netflix 4K.

BTW, this AMD blog seems to imply Netflix 4K will be supported:

https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2018/02/12/10-facts-about-the-new-amd-ryzen-desktop-processor-with-radeon-vega-graphics

They don't actually say Netflix 4K, but they say 4K UHD HDR is supported, they say HEVC is supported, and they say Netflix is supported, all in hardware.

You’ve already seen that the 2200G and 2400G can comfortably play games, but games are not the only thing a graphics core can do. People also watch movies and TV shows from all different sources on many different types of monitors. The Radeon Vega graphics built into these new processors handle H.264, HEVC, and VP9 fully in the hardware for smooth, cool, and quiet playback. In other words: services like Amazon Instant Video, Hulu, Netflix, and YouTube are all handled by dedicated hardware inside our new processor.4 And when it comes to monitors, Radeon Vega graphics can handle any display up to 4K UltraHD, even if you also throw in High Dynamic Range (HDR) and Radeon FreeSync technology.5

That blog also supports my point about these chips being a big deal for non-gaming machines.

According to a recent report by Jon Peddie Research (JPR), about 30% of all desktop computers do not use a standalone graphics card. These PCs only ship with processors that have graphics built in, and they go to some pretty big markets: family computers, all-in-ones, small businesses, governments, enterprise workplace PCs, affordable gaming machines, small form factor machines, and more. These tantalizing opportunities are now open to AMD Ryzen thanks to the AMD Ryzen Desktop Processor with Radeon Vega Graphics!
 

alexruiz

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2001
2,751
393
126
Some hints:-

- How is SATA set in the BIOS, AHCI or RAID? If you change from one to the other after an install without changing a setting in the registry first, then Windows will often not boot. Double check that your recent BIOS update didn't change SATA Mode (IDE/AHCI/RAID) from however you had it set up without you realizing. That can cause precisely the same hang on boot you describe.
You beat me!
I was going to mention this, that if the SATA settings at the BIOS changed on how windows was running previously, windows will NOT boot.
AM4 boards have only AHCI / RAID settings.

If mode was AHCI, the standard microsoft driver should boot regardless if it was connected to the chipset or the CPU SATA ports.
If running AMD SATA drivers, the drive has to be connected to the chipset ports.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,042
546
126
Ah I didn't realize, but it seems that Ryzen 2200g is meant to compete at the low end of Core i3 level, whereas Ryzen 2400g would be at the low end of Core i5 level, with the i5-8400 beating Ryzen 2400g at most CPU tests. I had originally assumed they'd be a faster than that but no. I guess I got biased by the GPU benchmarks, where Ryzen obviously does much better.

That makes perfect sense though. Those are exactly the markets AMD needs to target with their APUs.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,751
3,391
136
Microsoft and Sony are now mayor clients for AMD, its naive to belive they dont have a pull when it comes to new PC products.

BTW, i dont think Sony bothers about the Xbox performance. pc has FAR more games and at better price. a $200 HBM APU with far more power than the PS4 it will mean the entere market will be flooded with custom consoles running steam at a far better price and performance than any attempt so far, and i cant talk about piracy but you know what that means as well.
Neither Microsoft, neither Sony have ANYTHING to say about AMD products, other than to those AMD design for them. They have zero business to that. Plain and Simple. Its illogical from business point of view for AMD.

You have zero proofs to substance your claims over this. Only thing that can/was stopping AMD from designing such chip was manufacturing costs, and price margins, and viability of such product.

If they have technology that can bring you 4C/8T CPU with GTX 1060 3GB or higher performance levels, in more efficient package, and for less - there is zero incentive NOT to design such chip.

Why? Because sales that would go into Core i3 8100(109$)+ GTX 1060 3 GB(199$) Combo can go directly to AMD, for ONE CHIP.

And then we had this:

https://wccftech.com/amd-fenghuang-desktop-apu-with-15ff-28-cu-graphics/

4C/8T, 2 GB HBM2, 1792 GCN core package, with which appears to be Vega GPU, with similar engineering sample name to... Raven Ridge iGPU Engineering sample name.

None of the products that were going to Consoles, the Semi-Custom APUs, were ever spotted in desktop databases.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,143
817
126
Keep hearing about these "leaks". Do you have a source for it?
That could be from a Fudzilla article, which was discussed for 62 pages here

Specs that apparently some people still believe are true:
16 Zen cores
Quad channel DD4
Vega graphics with 32GB HBM memory
Launching June 2015
Edit: Oh yeah, this was supposed to be a mobile APU :^/

Here's a thread on a Bit's 'n Chips article about a research paper that got hyped to a 32 core APU.

So yes, there are sources, but crappy ones.

Edit: Oh, yeah, I remember now, this was the 300W APU. I'm sure there's more threads about it.
 
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May 11, 2008
18,310
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The Ballistix products featuring non-Micron ICs are most likely a niche / filler product to complete the lineup to Crucial, and therefore the production is limited as well.
Aha, that makes sense. An enthusiast line that of course is for the brand recognition but not the main source of revenue.

DRAM IC manufacturers follow JEDEC specifications for their products and the nominal supply voltage for normal DDR4 is 1.20V.
3200MHz at 1.20V rated ICs have recently entered into production or sampling phase, but the low supply voltage combined at high speed comes at a cost of extremely high latencies (e.g. 22-22-22 tCL-tRCD-tRP for Hynix 3200MHz ICs).
Indeed, i glanced to the june 2017 update of the jedec specs (document JESD79-4B) beginning of december last year and noticed official jedec support for 2933MHz@1.2V and 3200MHz@1.2V.
I had from then on high expectations that upcoming ryzen 2000 series would support it and as it turns out, the 2400G and 2200G both support 2933MHz@1.2V. Albeit the APU does this with a single sided module and one module per channel according to Anandtech.

According to the document, there are different versions of the ddr 3200 dram.
Speed bin DDR4-3200W is supposed to run 20-20-20 tCL-tRCD-tRP.
Maybe the upcoming samsung chips are able to run with those latencies ?

Most of the recent DDR4 ICs can be overclocked to far above (>= 3000MHz) their rated speeds, but generally that requires increasing the voltage significantly higher than the JEDEC specification dictates (1.35V or higher).
I find it amazing that 2133MHz DDR4 modules can run so high. Over 50% higher clock with a 12.5% increase in voltage.
I assume these are really higher speedbins at 2666MHz or higher but run default for compatibility on 2133MHz to make sure the system always boots.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,751
3,391
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That could be from a Fudzilla article, which was discussed for 62 pages here

Specs that apparently some people still believe are true:
16 Zen cores
Quad channel DD4
Vega graphics with 32GB HBM memory
Launching June 2015

Here's a thread on a Bit's 'n Chips article about a research paper that got hyped to a 32 core APU.

So yes, there are sources, but crappy ones.
Keep hearing about these "leaks". Do you have a source for it?
Both of you appear to not know anything about the topic discussed. Type in Google: Fenghuang Raven AMD, and search for results.

The information comes actually from SiSoft Sandra database.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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One more thing. Time and time again someone says about manufacturing costs of such massive APU.


Nobody however looks at broader point of view. If you design ONE chip - it is CHEAPER than designing TWO separate chips for target price points.

Its cheaper to design and manufacture ONE APU, with 4C/8T, 2-4 GB's of HBM2, and 1792 GCN cores, than to design TWO separate Chips: 4C/8T CPU, and 1792 GCN core GPU with 2-4 GB's of HBM2.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
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Both of you appear to not know anything about the topic discussed. Type in Google: Fenghuang Raven AMD, and search for results.

The information comes actually from SiSoft Sandra database.
Do not waste your time and energy arguing with them. This product if its for real will be announced at Computex time for launch during BTS season. I think the Fenghuang Raven product is real.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-2-set-march-2018-launch-12nm-support-higher-core-memory-clock-speeds/

I think the Ryzen 7 and 5 Gaming in that slide slated for Q2 2018 could be this product.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,474
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One more thing. Time and time again someone says about manufacturing costs of such massive APU.

Nobody however looks at broader point of view. If you design ONE chip - it is CHEAPER than designing TWO separate chips for target price points.

Its cheaper to design and manufacture ONE APU, with 4C/8T, 2-4 GB's of HBM2, and 1792 GCN cores, than to design TWO separate Chips: 4C/8T CPU, and 1792 GCN core GPU with 2-4 GB's of HBM2.
Exactly . APUs with HBM bring power,area and cost advantages over CPU + dGPU. I think the key driver of Kaby G and AMD Raven APUs with HBM in 2018 is going to be Samsung.

http://www.icinsights.com/news/bulletins/will-samsungs-2017-semi-capex-deliver-knockout-blow-to-competition/

Samsung's DRAM investments in 2017 are massive and targetted at high performance DDR4, HBM2 and GDDR6. imo Samsung is going to pretty much clean up high margin high end DRAM product market share in 2018. If you look at the Samsung and Hynix GDDR6 you will know the difference

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12338/samsung-starts-mass-production-of-gddr6-memory
Samsung GDDR6 - 18 Gbps , 16 Gb

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12345/sk-hynix-lists-gddr6-memory-as-available-now
Hynix GDDR6 - 12-14 Gbps, 8 Gbit

15-30% higher speeds and double the capacity for Samsung GDDR6. For HBM2 Samsung has said >50% of production will be 8Hi stacks . Speeds have already ramped up to 2.4 Gbps.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11643/samsung-increases-8gb-hbm2-production-volume
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12301/samsung-starts-production-of-hbm2-aquabolt-memory-8-gb-24-gbps
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,143
817
126
Both of you appear to not know anything about the topic discussed. Type in Google: Fenghuang Raven AMD, and search for results.

The information comes actually from SiSoft Sandra database.
You do it. More Fudzilla and the like. If you think Fudzilla is a credible source, well...
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,143
817
126
Do not waste your time and energy arguing with them. This product if its for real will be announced at Computex time for launch during BTS season. I think the Fenghuang Raven product is real.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-2-set-march-2018-launch-12nm-support-higher-core-memory-clock-speeds/

I think the Ryzen 7 and 5 Gaming in that slide slated for Q2 2018 could be this product.
Pakistan, the center of the CPU world. Why do you shoot yourself in the foot by linking to wccf as some kind of authority?

Funny the Fudzilla article claimed it was launching at Computex 2015, now you say it's launching at Computex 2018.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,751
3,391
136
Do not waste your time and energy arguing with them. This product if its for real will be announced at Computex time for launch during BTS season. I think the Fenghuang Raven product is real.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-2-set-march-2018-launch-12nm-support-higher-core-memory-clock-speeds/

I think the Ryzen 7 and 5 Gaming in that slide slated for Q2 2018 could be this product.
You have no information to substance that, as well ;).

P.S. Nobody was arguing there.

If you ask me for my opinion, I have written before: I think Ryzen Gaming is an APU, with HBM2, and direct competitor for Intel Kaby Lake-G Chips. Raven Ridge APUs are in the 2200G, and 2400G SKUs, and Ryzen Gaming APU can be in the Ryzen 5 2600G, and Ryzen 7 2700G SKU price target.

If in this scenario Ryzen 7 2700G is full, 95W APU, with 4C/8T, 4 GB's of HBM2, 1792 GCN5 cores, and performance at or higher than GTX 1060 3 GB, while costing less - it is much better deal than anyone so far recognizes.

Let the CPU have the same clocks as 65W 2400G - 3.6/3.9 GHz, and GPU have 1100 MHz, all in 95W TDP.

But then again, this is only my speculation and opinion on what we are looking at.

You do it. More Fudzilla and the like. If you think Fudzilla is a credible source, well...
It appears your researches are very poor in "thoroughness".

https://www.techpowerup.com/239683/mystery-amd-apu-with-1-792-sp-shows-up-on-sandra-database

But Im sure they are also clown site, or placed in Pakistan.
 
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raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
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You do it. More Fudzilla and the like. If you think Fudzilla is a credible source, well...
Firstly AMD said there was a server APU with HBM at their 2015 FAD.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/9239/amd-financial-analyst-day-2015-roundup
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/9239/AMDDatacenterRoadmap.jpg

Some of the plans might have changed like K12 being shelved in favour of x86 and Zen. We still do not know if the x86 server APU has also been shelved. The x86 server APU could still be on the roadmap. EPYC has just started ramping at major OEMs and 2018 has just started. If we do not see a x86 server APU in 2018 then we can conclude the server APU was shelved for reasons like lack of engineering resources or lack of OEM interest.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,474
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Pakistan, the center of the CPU world. Why do you shoot yourself in the foot by linking to wccf as some kind of authority?

Funny the Fudzilla article claimed it was launching at Computex 2015, now you say it's launching at Computex 2018.
Fudzilla's greenland APU articles are about a server APU. the wccftech article is showing a slide from a recent AMD presentation to their partners and is client product related. You can draw your own conclusions.
 

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