Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

[izaic3]

Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

• Zen 3 "enhanced"
• DDR5 and LPDDR5 support
• PCIE4
• 6nm
• CVML
• Navi 2/RDNA/RDNA 2
• 12 CU
• Socket FP7/AM5
• Possible USB4
• 2021(unlikely) -2022 (more likely) release date

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.

 

[uzzi38]

45.616%


Nothing about the 12% percentage, this was my main point. Is this a good number in your book? AMD has a very low LPDDR4 volume, there is a big question mark about LPDDR5.

Buddy, I'm going to have to ask you to think real hard about how percentages work. Because I can assure you that that 958 DDR4 and 437 LPDDR4X is not a 50-50 split or even close to one. Mental maths tells me that's more like a 65-35 split?

And again, AMD's main volume in thin and light designs has been in budget and midrange devices. LPDDR4X is not something you find in the former, the latter is a split between DDR4 and LPDDR4X.

Testing hardware they won't use in the shipping product, makes completely sense. You cannot know if this is just for testing, this a a random guess from your side.

It's a test bench. Using literally whatever lies around is very normal. There have been countless Vermeer/Comet Lake/Rocket Lake/Matisse ES runs using like barebones DDR4-2133MHz, when did that ever mean anything?

This is exactly my point. All existing modules are basically rated 6400, they are just downclocked. You cannot compare DDR5 with LPDDR5.

Iirc Samsung only began production of LPDDR5-6400 late last year. Up until then it was LPDDR5-5500 only. So frankly idk what you're talking about.

 

[Thibsie]

Mmm isn't LPDDR worse latency-wise ?
At least that was the case for DDR4/LPDDR4.
Dunno about the 5 series though.

 

[mikk]

Iirc Samsung only began production of LPDDR5-6400 late last year. Up until then it was LPDDR5-5500 only. So frankly idk what you're talking about.

Hynix and Micron disagree. There is only LPDDR5-6400:

LPDDR5 part catalog

Explore Micron's LPDDR5 DRAM part catalog, offering comprehensive info for low-power mobile and embedded solutions, ensuring reliable performance.

www.micron.com

SK hynix Official Product Website

LPDDR5 | SK hynix Official Product Website

product.skhynix.com

In fact only LPDDR5-6400 has been validated from Intel, apparently modules below 6400 are obsolete. Only Samsung has a listing below 6400 but not sure if this is relevant, the only Samung validated module is 6400 based.

 

[izaic3]

Probably just referring to overall score vs gfx scores. Doesn't matter given how small the difference is between the two.

As for the slide, I don't get the point of it. We'll have useful benchmarks soon enough.

As for volume, LPDDR5 is an option and has been in mass production for a year and a half now. DDR5 volume is slim, but you should expect that AMD's presence in thin-and-light designs is going to be more prevalent than before.

Cezanne was not a good competitor for Tiger Lake-U in thin and light designs. Rembrandt is a very good competitor for Alder Lake there.

Barcelo will play a big impact for the low and partially the mid range market - U-series laptops that previously shipped with DDR4-3200.

Good call on LPDDR5, I wasn't thinking about that.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

It looks like the next AYANEO handheld console will have Rembrandt APU inside. They rescheduled their event for certain reasons.

Dear gamers,
For certain reasons, the Ayaneo event we planned on 28 Dec is rescheduled to 21:30, 4 Jan 2022 EST.
We apologize for the wait and invite you to join us on YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/c/AYANEO), and meet the next generation gaming handheld - Ayaneo NEXT. Ayaneo Team

Link

edit: Yes, It could be also Barcelo. If It wasn't scrapped.

 

[andermans]

Might also be Barcelo, no? That isn't yet announced either.

 

[DisEnchantment]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1308484619097042945

5200.

The last point is just stupid. I've seen the official validation list from Intel specifically, you'll be seeing LPDDR5-6400 ship primarily in Intel laptops supporting the technology, but it will only be ran at LPDDR5-5200.

The memory cartel isn't going to just not up-bin and then up-sell memory whatever memory they can make.

TY for the twitter link, was trying to find it, I have seen it before. With 40Gbps USB4, RMB should be TBT3 "compatible" if not outright "compliant".
I think they are using Synopsys DesignWare USB4 IP which has TBT3 support already.

Might also be Barcelo, no? That isn't yet announced either.

Barcelo will bring nothing useful over Renoir in terms of GPU, might as well not update, since these handhelds are mostly GPU limited.

It looks like the next AYANEO handheld console will have Rembrandt APU inside. They rescheduled their event for certain reasons.

Link

Steam Deck is outperforming current 2021 Aya Neo by a large margin already and RMB with higher clocked LP5 and 50% more CU should be able to do much better. (From Linus TT Steam Deck video)
Aya NEO with TBT3 could be interesting too, you could use a regular TB USB C dock and when docked you can have a capable desktop with a discrete GPU connected to a Monitor and charge at the same time.
Or you take it and have a regular handheld.

16 MB of IC would be able to do wonders for such a console, it will improve performance and battery life avoiding to hit the DRAM. Too bad it won't make it.
On N5 these RMB chips will be able to really shine. Add LPDDR5X and maybe 4 more CUs. Don't even need Zen 4 or RDNA3.

Aya Neo looks like they will have a real winner on their hands by end of next year. They could try to make a nice TBT dock to go along with it too.
CPU is plenty for such a device.

Nice opportunity there for AMD. Too bad they are still dabbling with N7 family 4 years after its launch.

 

[andermans]

Barcelo will bring nothing useful over Renoir in terms of GPU, might as well not update, since these handhelds are mostly GPU limited.

I just like being less optimistic, since having a 4800U instead of 5800U for the Aya Neo Pro also seemed like very little in that time.

 

[DisEnchantment]

I just like being less optimistic, since having a 4800U instead of 5800U for the Aya Neo Pro also seemed like very little in that time.

Yeah the 4800U makes no sense.
But Zen3 core has a bit more heat output than Zen2 and consume a bit more power, it will degrade the battery for nothing.
I guess VGH is Zen2 for that reason.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

.....
16 MB of IC would be able to do wonders for such a console, it will improve performance and battery life avoiding to hit the DRAM. Too bad it won't make it.
On N5 these RMB chips will be able to really shine. Add LPDDR5X and maybe 4 more CUs. Don't even need Zen 4 or RDNA3.
.....

I would also like to see 16-32MB IC and 20-24CU in Rembrandt, but this is a monolith and on pretty expensive 6nm process, so they will have to make compromises to be within a specified die size.
RDNA3 should be more power efficient, so I would certainly prefer It over RDNA2 as an IGP. 5-6 WGP(1280-1536SP) would be fantastic.
The question is, If we will see such an APU in 2023 or in 2024.

 

[LightningZ71]

Could the Aya get a special bin of Cezanne with only 4 cores, all 16MB of L3, but all 8 CUs enabled rrunning at 2.2Ghz with LPDDR4X ram? It's certainly not going to beat the Steamdeck in the GPU department, though it certainly will have enough for a 720p screen, and will have a substantially better CPU arrangement.

 

[Joe NYC]

Could the Aya get a special bin of Cezanne with only 4 cores, all 16MB of L3, but all 8 CUs enabled rrunning at 2.2Ghz with LPDDR4X ram? It's certainly not going to beat the Steamdeck in the GPU department, though it certainly will have enough for a 720p screen, and will have a substantially better CPU arrangement.

But they are getting Rembrandt for Next Gen. January 4th.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Aya is also in a higher cost bracket so using Rembrandt makes more sense.

Steamdeck with 512 GB SSD $649 / ~163 mm2
Aya Pro with 512 GB SSD = $925 / ~156 mm2
Aya Next with 512 GB SSD = >=$925 / ~208 mm2

~$300 premium at end-cost for Zen3 + 4 more cores and 4 more RDNA2 CUs is worth it.

 

[ahimsa42]

AMD Ryzen 9 6900HX 'Rembrandt' APU Specs Leak Out: 8 Enhanced 6nm Zen 3 Cores, 20 MB Cache, 4.6 GHz Boost & Radeon 680M 'RDNA 2' Integrated Graphics

Today, we have the specs of AMD's next-gen Ryzen 9 6900HX 'Rembrandt' APU which features 8 Zen 3 enhanced cores & RDNA 2 graphics on 6nm.

wccftech.com

 

[mikk]

AMD Ryzen 9 6900HX 'Rembrandt' APU Specs Leak Out: 8 Enhanced 6nm Zen 3 Cores, 20 MB Cache, 4.6 GHz Boost & Radeon 680M 'RDNA 2' Integrated Graphics

Today, we have the specs of AMD's next-gen Ryzen 9 6900HX 'Rembrandt' APU which features 8 Zen 3 enhanced cores & RDNA 2 graphics on 6nm.

wccftech.com

Radeon 680M iGPU??? This is a misleading name considering there is a RX 6800M dGPU.

Also very close to Intels upcoming Arc dGPU nomenclature for the graphics (A350M, A370M etc). I guess we will see P models as well for Rembrandt-U, no doubt they will copy and paste this as well. Only DDR5-4800 support by the way, even though no idea how accurate their source is.

 

[izaic3]

From the various recent Intel leaks would you say this is a reasonable prediction for 2022 mobile:
single core winner: Intel
multithread: AMD
iGPU: AMD
Power usage: complicated, depending on load

 

[andermans]

From the various recent Intel leaks would you say this is a reasonable prediction for 2022 mobile:
single core winner: Intel
multithread: AMD
iGPU: AMD
Power usage: complicated, depending on load

Given the increased core counts for Intel (2+8/6+8) I think multithread remains to be seen and I'm kinda leaning Intel right now for it (especially the 6+8 class), though it could be either.

 

[eek2121]

I would also like to see 16-32MB IC and 20-24CU in Rembrandt, but this is a monolith and on pretty expensive 6nm process, so they will have to make compromises to be within a specified die size.
RDNA3 should be more power efficient, so I would certainly prefer It over RDNA2 as an IGP. 5-6 WGP(1280-1536SP) would be fantastic.
The question is, If we will see such an APU in 2023 or in 2024.

Actually, from what I've been reading in various places, N6 is cheaper than N7, not that I ever expect AMD to release a giant APU.

Radeon 680M iGPU??? This is a misleading name considering there is a RX 6800M dGPU.

Also very close to Intels upcoming Arc dGPU nomenclature for the graphics (A350M, A370M etc). I guess we will see P models as well for Rembrandt-U, no doubt they will copy and paste this as well. Only DDR5-4800 support by the way, even though no idea how accurate their source is.

So was the RX 570/580. I get the feeling they mean this as a spiritual successor to Polaris. Note that, from what I understand (in case this isn't clear) this refers to the INTEGRATED graphics, not the dedicated GPU.

 

[andermans]

So was the RX 570/580. I get the feeling they mean this as a spiritual successor to Polaris. Note that, from what I understand (in case this isn't clear) this refers to the INTEGRATED graphics, not the dedicated GPU.

There is even a Radeon 600 series where it can slot right in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_600_series (Gotta love the rebrands)

 

[flatwhite]

Hello, I'm new here.
Any prediction on pricing of Rembrant APU vs Cezanne(6800H vs 5800H). With the support of DDR5, PCIe 4.0 & USB4, is it gonna be at least 200$ difference for the same laptop?

 

[eek2121]

Hello, I'm new here.
Any prediction on pricing of Rembrant APU vs Cezanne(6800H vs 5800H). With the support of DDR5, PCIe 4.0 & USB4, is it gonna be at least 200$ difference for the same laptop?

All we can do is speculate, but I suspect there will be a not insignificant price increase. Inflation, supply chain issues, and all of that.

 

[gdansk]

Wishful thinking: Alder Lake 6+8 and 2+8's competitiveness may keep AMD from increasing price too much.

 

[ahimsa42]

there will likely be a premium due to the new platform & DDR5 but as was mentioned above, AMD also needs to be competitive with intel ADL so it will hopefully not be too much more than Cezanne.personally, i am hoping to see some 15" RMB U models with 16 GB ram for around $800-900. i think that at first availability may be the bigger issue-along with finding a decent igpu only version which is not paired with a dgpu (which imo defeats the purpose of having a good igpu in the first place).

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

there will likely be a premium due to the new platform & DDR5 but as was mentioned above, AMD also needs to be competitive with intel ADL so it will hopefully not be too much more than Cezanne.personally, i am hoping to see some 15" RMB U models with 16 GB ram for around $800-900. i think that at first availability may be the bigger issue-along with finding a decent igpu only version which is not paired with a dgpu (which imo defeats the purpose of having a good igpu in the first place).

How many Cezanne laptops with 16GB RAM within that price bracket can you find in your country?
In my country(Slovakia) a big retailer offered only 2 models of HP ProBook 455 G8 for <900€ including VAT, the rest was >980€ including VAT.

edit: I am personally quite sceptical about the prices of Rembrandt.

 

[moinmoin]

Historically AMD has only increased the price based on the CPU performance, will be interesting if AMD now changes that with RNDA2 finally replacing Vega. The introduction of more costly tech outside the APU likely makes the whole package more costly anyway though.

How many Cezanne laptops with 16GB RAM within that price bracket can you find in your country?

For Germany Geizhals lists 6 models below 900€ (including VAT).