AMD Raven Ridge 'Zen APU' Thread

[LTC8K6]

One thing I would like to see is Microsoft do is beat Apple on creative software. Perhaps even take a leadership role Apple is not interested in.

For example, take FM radio.

Unlike Internet Radio it is legal to record FM radio for personal usage and Microsoft Media Center (in addition to being able to record DRM protected Cable channels and regular TV) has the ability to play FM radio provided the PC is equipped with a FM radio tuner.

So if AMD adds a good FM radio tuner to the APU (which already has true audio) they stand the chance of doing something unique.

Who would record FM radio, though?

HD radio maybe, but even that isn't great.

 

[NTMBK]

I think the hardware is the key to making things change.

For example, take FM radio.

Unlike Internet Radio it is legal to record FM radio for personal usage and Microsoft Media Center (in addition to being able to record DRM protected Cable channels and regular TV) has the ability to play FM radio provided the PC is equipped with a FM radio tuner.

So I think a good FM radio tuner should be one the new features added to the APU (which already has true audio).

Sure, then it will be just as cutting edge as my 30 year old tape deck 0_o

 

[cbn]

Who would record FM radio, though?

HD radio maybe, but even that isn't great.

I am not an audiophile, but I haven't noticed problems with FM radio myself.

Apparently the quality of the tuner matters a lot though.

http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-xdr-f1hd/

Sure, a lot of folks have abandoned AM and FM in favor of Internet radio and satellite radio; too bad the sound quality doesn't hold a candle to cleanly received FM. Getting that clean signal, however, can be problematic; FM is too often plagued with static, noise, and distortion. That's why the XDR-F1HD HD Radio is so impressive: so long as you're tuning in a local station, it's mostly immune to those forms of interference.

 

[cbn]

Sure, then it will be just as cutting edge as my 30 year old tape deck 0_o

That tape deck doesn't let you create your own playlists and mixes (via editing) or add the recorded music to video that is also on your computer.

 

[NTMBK]

That tape deck doesn't let you create your own playlists and mixes (via editing) or add the recorded music to video that is also on your computer.

Sure it does, you just stop recording and hit record again when the next song you want comes on. You know that a "playlist" is just the modern equivalent of a "mixtape", yeah? And why the hell would you start doing mixes from terrible quality FM recordings?

I know you love to come up with bonkers ideas with no market potential, but this one is a real home run. Kudos. By the way, a modern FM tuner looks like this: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/...nt=469999425&gclid=CLDDpd_w480CFYIW0wodEXMEDw If users were really crying out for this feature, it could have been integrated into laptop motherboards 20 years ago. (Much like my old Nokia had one integrated.) But the demand really, really isn't there.

 

[cbn]

Sure it does, you just stop recording and hit record again when the next song you want comes on. You know that a "playlist" is just the modern equivalent of a "mixtape", yeah?

"Mixes" as in creating new music.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_mixing_(recorded_music)

This is different than a mixtape (which is just another name for playlist--> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixtape )

Also your tape recorder doesn't allow editing of songs you want out of stream of songs you just recorded.

 

[NTMBK]

"Mixes" as in creating new music.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_mixing_(recorded_music)

This is different than a mixtape (which is just another name for playlist--> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixtape )

Also your tape recorder doesn't allow editing of songs you want out of stream of songs you just recorded.

Tape to tape, you can chop it up all you want.

I understand what a mix is- the mixtape part was aimed at playlists. As for a mix- why the hell would you use a low quality FM recording to make a mix? Use a high quality source like CD audio.

 

[cbn]

As for a mix- why the hell would you use a low quality FM recording to make a mix? Use a high quality source like CD audio.

Why do you keep on mentioning low quality?

Did you not see this post--> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38344288&postcount=78

Also the idea of using FM is to get a large amount of music for free. Then take whatever you want from that.

In contrast, CDs are expensive and I believe they use DRM (Remember we are trying to encourage Microsoft with standardized PC hardware to develop easy to use creative software that works with legal sources).

 

[LTC8K6]

What is the quality of a standard FM broadcast, assuming one has a good signal and a decent receiver?

 

[LTC8K6]

Isn't the radio station just playing an MP3 file anyway?

 

[NTMBK]

Why do you keep on mentioning low quality?

Did you not see this post--> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38344288&postcount=78

Also the idea of using FM is to get a large amount of music for free. Then take whatever you want from that.

In contrast, CDs are expensive and I believe they use DRM (Remember we are trying to encourage Microsoft with standardized PC hardware to develop easy to use creative software that works with legal sources).

Instead of spending hours listening to the radio, waiting for the correct song to come on so you can catch a low quality (yes, it is lower quality) recording, why not just work a couple of extra hours a month and pay for a Spotify subscription. Seriously.

 

[cytg111]

Instead of spending hours listening to the radio, waiting for the correct song to come on so you can catch a low quality (yes, it is lower quality) recording, why not just work a couple of extra hours a month and pay for a Spotify subscription. Seriously.

I do both, radio is a good source of those nice tunes you wouldnt have caught otherwise..

 

[cbn]

Instead of spending hours listening to the radio, waiting for the correct song to come on so you can catch a low quality (yes, it is lower quality) recording, why not just work a couple of extra hours a month and pay for a Spotify subscription. Seriously.

According to the following link it wouldn't be higher quality than FM radio:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify

Technical information

Spotify is proprietary and uses digital rights management (DRM). Users that agree to Spotify's Terms and conditions agree to not reverse-engineer the application.[50] Streams are in the Vorbis format at q5 (ca. 160 kbit/s) for the Spotify free service,[51] or q9 (ca. 320 kbit/s)[52] for Spotify Premium subscribers. Spotify has a median playback latency of 265 ms or 390 ms without local cache.[53] Spotify does not offer CD quality (16/44.1 kHz) nor high-resolution audio (Hi-res, 24/96 or 24/192 or similar) services. As of version 0.4.3, it is possible to play locally stored MP3 and AAC files in addition to streaming.

Also, when a person stops paying the $10 month subscription all the downloaded songs are no longer available:

https://community.spotify.com/t5/He...ic-when-premium-subscription-ends/td-p/520992

 

[guachi]

You can get almost all the music you want free from YouTube if you don't mind 128k mp3 audio.

It's a gold mine of no longer available tracks.

 

[24601]

You do realize that ripping songs off the radio is exactly as legal as ripping them off of youtube right?

And FM radio quality is atrocious.

I agree, this is definitely up there with one of the most pointless ideas you have come up with.

 

[jpiniero]

In terms of competition with Cannonlake... 4C4T for desktop i3's is possible, but I would only call it possible at this point. I doubt Intel would let any 4C4T i3 turbo to anywhere near what the fastest Skylake i3 can do though (3.9 Ghz). Faster dual cores might be preferable to Intel based upon how leaky Cannonlake is.

Obviously if they did this the i5 would be at the very least 4C8T and i7 6C12T.

 

[cbn]

You do realize that ripping songs off the radio is exactly as legal as ripping them off of youtube right?

I did some additional research and it looks like you are right. (recording FM radio is something Media center can't do. It can record DRM potected video content like HBO though. I use this way with my HD HomeRun Prime network attached cable TV tuner so I know the technology is legally supported)

However, I still think having a HD FM radio tuner would be a good idea.

The functionality to play FM radio is already present in Media Center (which I want them to bring back via having more hardware standardized in PC), so why not support it? (Remember PCs typically don't have a data plan like phones do.....so streaming is not always an option)

And FM radio quality is atrocious.

No, it is not.

See this post for more info---> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38344288&postcount=78

Although keep in mind the type of antennae will affect reception.

 

[guachi]

You do realize that ripping songs off the radio is exactly as legal as ripping them off of youtube right?

And FM radio quality is atrocious.

I agree, this is definitely up there with one of the most pointless ideas you have come up with.

Since it's legal to record off the radio according to the AHRA, I take it you mean it's also legal to record off Youtube.

 

[24601]

Since it's legal to record off the radio according to the AHRA, I take it you mean it's also legal to record off Youtube.

"The principal distinction between what is and is not covered by the AHRA is determined by whether or not the device is marketed or designed (or in the case of media, commonly used by consumers) to make audio recordings, not the device's capabilities. A CD-R recorder included as part of a personal computer would not be a digital audio recording device under the Act, since the personal computer was not marketed primarily for making copies of music. The same recorder, sold as a peripheral and marketed for the express purpose of making digital audio recordings, would fall under the Act's definition of a recording device."

Meaning recording FM radio with your computer would be on exactly the same legal ground as ripping it off Youtube, for or against. They are the same under the law.

But attempt as you may to put words into my mouth, a Zen APU clearly would not be an equal or a superior to an Intel APU even if we are comparing skylake to fantasy Zen, as the chances that Zen will have a superior IMC to Skylake is 0%.

 

[cbn]

Here is the hd radio website that lists the stations supporting the technology:

http://hdradio.com/

Support looks really good for my area.

I wonder how much it costs to integrate the HD Radio digital FM/AM radio tuner into the APU? (Licensing fees and silicon area required?)

With that mentioned, I also wonder how much it would cost to integrate a digital TV tuner as well (If not outrageous AMD can bring back the All-in-Wonder brand and apply it to the mobile APU as well as low profile desktop cards/mobile dGPUs that also have the TV tuner integrated).

I think both these techs would be awesome for a laptop APU as well as an APU eventually destined for a car.

P.S. I did some informal testing with a Mohu leaf 50 flat antennae and a 14" laptop here---> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38344079&postcount=20

(I was happy with the results)

 

[coercitiv]

Please, enough with the radio stuff already.

 

[cbn]

Pretty amazing how much data streaming music uses:

https://support.spotify.com/us/usin.../what-bitrate-does-spotify-use-for-streaming/

Spotify uses 3 quality ratings for streaming, all in the Ogg Vorbis format.

~96 kbps
Normal quality on mobile.

~160 kbps
Desktop and web player standard quality.
High quality on mobile.

~320 kbps (only available to Premium subscribers)
Desktop high quality.
Extreme quality on mobile.

High quality is available to premium subscribers (who can also download music and use it for as long as they pay the $10 month).

But for the free service on a phone 96 Kbps works out to be 43.2 MB per hour. (1 hour per day for 30 days works out to be 1.296 GB/month. If 2 hours per day for 30 days data would be 2.592 GB/month)

And the premium service 160 Kbps streaming works out to be 72.25 MB/hour (1 hour per day for 30 days works out to be 2167.5 GB/month. If 2 hours per day for 30 days data would be 4335 GB/month).

That is a lot of data just for music for someone not near Wifi (or not using saved songs in the case of the Spotify premium service).

P.S. Just checking around at mobile data plans, Verizon and AT&T charge for all data used (it is available in various tiers). Sprint and Virgin Mobile also have tiers but allow for 2G speeds once data has been exceeded. T-mobile is very nice in that it has deals worked out with major streaming services (like Spotify) where streaming does not touch data.

 

[cbn]

Please, enough with the radio stuff already.

How about White Spaces radio?

 

[NostaSeronx]

Radio Ridge, the next new AMD Sound xPU card.

Can listen to HD FM/AM Radio with little interference, can record the youtubes, comes with a year of spotify.

>200 db SNR
64-bit Audio - 0.96 GHz
Tagged VLIW DSP architecture.
USB Audio C-type connector
Comes with M.2 so you can have a dedicated audio storage location.
$249.99

 

[Sweepr]

In terms of competition with Cannonlake... 4C4T for desktop i3's is possible, but I would only call it possible at this point. I doubt Intel would let any 4C4T i3 turbo to anywhere near what the fastest Skylake i3 can do though (3.9 Ghz). Faster dual cores might be preferable to Intel based upon how leaky Cannonlake is.

Obviously if they did this the i5 would be at the very least 4C8T and i7 6C12T.

I hope they move up to 6C/12T with Cannonlake-S. The rumoured 40 EUs Gen 10 iGPU would be a nice bonus but honestly that's not the reason we're buying these chips (unlike AMD APUs).