The GP102 is a prime example on how bad the cost structure for HBM2 is. If it wasn't clear enough with the Fiji disaster.
Wut? What disaster? ! Fiji could be had for as low as $300 recently.
The GP102 is a prime example on how bad the cost structure for HBM2 is. If it wasn't clear enough with the Fiji disaster.
,Yet they ship slow ass e-dram part
Wut? What disaster? ! Fiji could be had for as low as $300 recently.
In light of the new lower cost HBM and since Raven Ridge is a H2 2017 product, i will say a 8GB HBM APU for Laptops is very possibly and viable solution.
For High-End, High Performance, Thin Chassis Segment ($800-1200+)
Raven Ridge with 8GB HBM
1. Single slot solution.
2. Simpler Motherboard design and lower BOM
3. No extra DDR-3/4 dimm slots or integrated Chips
4. Single cooler design, smaller, lighter, cheaper.
5. Higher or same Graphics performance vs dGPU (RX 460m GDDR-5) of the same class with lower power consumption.
1+2+3+4+5 =
Even if the HBM APU alone will be more expensive than a DDR-4 APU, the HBM APU will make the final product (Laptop) be cheaper, lighter, with same or faster performance, consume less power, increase Battery life, be thinner.
Intel doesnt have a product like that, it will make AMDs HBM APU look like heaven to OEM/ODMs.
thoughts ??
Yeah, stopped. And they are selling brand new S9300X2 GPUs and Pro Duo based on available supply?Production is stopped. So its old stock. And look on card sales. Its low, very low.
EDRAM cost less than the interposer needed. And it doesn't have the production issues either
Production is stopped. So its old stock. And look on card sales. Its low, very low.
But the point is to see what was the lowest production sales point. And that price was high.
Interposer is a static extra cost.
HBM chips are very expensive.
TSV is expensive.
When combining everything above with the GPU/APU, any failure=loss of all. That's expensive.
Why wouldn't they just combine this FPU with Zen and call it Zen+?Raven Ridge-E / "Lumpy Ridge"
22FDX
15h NG2 Bulldozer Dual-core/Single Module
64B Gather/64B Scatter AGU/FPU Load/Store
Single AVX512 FlexFMAC FPU.
Ports A-H => 4x32-bit, 2x64-bit, 1x80-bit / Single Port = 128b/80b, Dual Port = 256b/160b, Quad-port = 512b/320b
Ports A-D => Mul, Divide, Square Root, Transcendentals, Dot/Trigonometry, etc
Ports E-H => Add, Packs, Permute, Shuffle, Rotate, Store, etc
3W and 10W SKUs positioned against Core M AVX512 4.5W and 15W SKUs.
Pure Embedded[IoT-Green HPC] and ULP Consumer only. Received information gathered via contract extension not under NDA.
Although expensive, HBM (2 and newer variants) is a new technology with an emerging market. As soon as more manufacturers jump in, more solutions are provided for reliability increase and cost reduction.
Also, HBM2 is just on the market, give it some time to develop.
And good luck with making 8 or 16GB edram next to a gpu, a cpu, mass storage controller, and all other interconnect fabric on a single die. Or you want to go the multiple die route which also needs an interposer...
Different design methodologies is my guess. Zen is aiming for speed and thus higher supported Fmax. This new unit is aiming for density and higher energy performance. Secondly, nothing that implies 3-cycle dependency latency over 5-cycle dependency latency.Why wouldn't they just combine this FPU with Zen and call it Zen+?
To be determined/speculation of new integer core for 15h NG2 Bulldozer. This was not specified;This way it reminds me of MIC cores. Weak Int+fat SIMD.
It got overwhelmed by 980Ti in pretty much every metric. Late to market, slower in most games, very poor overclocking, bad supply, and poor performance per dollar for an amd product. Yea, Fury x was a raging success.Wut? What disaster? ! Fiji could be had for as low as $300 recently.
Any sources GDDR5 would make it a better product? Anyway, this is APU thread.It got overwhelmed by 980Ti in pretty much every metric. Late to market, slower in most games, very poor overclocking, bad supply, and poor performance per dollar for an amd product. Yea, Fury x was a raging success.
Never said it would be better without HBM, although only seems logical that it could have been brought out earlier and at a better price point without HBM. And the fact that it had HBM certainly did not give it better performance that 980Ti. But trying to defend the product because it has sold at 300.00 (BTW do you have a source for that?) seems absurd. The fact that it supposedly has sold at about half its suggested price is an indication of how uncompetitive it really was.Any sources GDDR5 would make it a better product? Anyway, this is APU thread.
We all know he hates HBM from the very beginning, when the rumors popped up about hbm GPUs, just like he hates console's APUs.
His no HBM2 for APUs looks identical to previous claims about no HBM for GPUs and no APUs for consoles.
And good luck with making 8 or 16GB edram next to a gpu, a cpu, mass storage controller, and all other interconnect fabric on a single die. Or you want to go the multiple die route which also needs an interposer...
Any sources GDDR5 would make it a better product? Anyway, this is APU thread.
We all know he hates HBM from the very beginning, when the rumors popped up about hbm GPUs, just like he hates console's APUs.
His no HBM2 for APUs looks identical to previous claims about no HBM for GPUs and no APUs for consoles.
Because everything up to GP102 is updated Maxwell architecture. GP100 is true new Pascal architecture, that Nvidia properly spend money on. Thats why they could use GDDR5 on GP104. Because GDDR5X is so similar to GDDR5 you do not even have to change drastically the memory controller, so no changes in the architecture whatsoever. And the fact that GDDR5X can work with GDDR5 in legacy mode is more meaningful here. Examples?Why dont you deliver some substance and tell how and when HBM costs are coming down to a level that it can compete and deliver some numbers. Raja said HBM wasn't for mainstream. HBM makers says HBM isn't for mainstream in its current form. Nvidia shows what it think when they spend something like 100M$ on the GP102 IC design and fits it with GDDR5X. Samsung commits to GDDR6(GDDR5X).
So easy with the hate word again are we when we dont get what we want? If you dont agree you are a hater, because then you dont have to argument for it.
Its about saying everyone hates Ferraries because you dont accept the everyone wont drive one. Its a superior car and everyone should use it.
Why dont you deliver some substance and tell how and when HBM costs are coming down to a level that it can compete and deliver some numbers. Raja said HBM wasn't for mainstream. HBM makers says HBM isn't for mainstream in its current form. Nvidia shows what it think when they spend something like 100M$ on the GP102 IC design and fits it with GDDR5X. Samsung commits to GDDR6(GDDR5X).
What if Enthusiast Vega is the bigger one GPU? And is aimed at... Volta?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qJj1ViyyPY
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/08/hbm3-details-price-bandwidth/
Raja said they will introduce HBM2 when its cost makes sense for a wider range of mainstream products. btw the samller Vega chip which should launch in Q1 2017 or early Q2 2017 is going to end up competing with GP104. Given that Nvidia has already set a USD 399 - USD 449 price range for GTX 1070 I am sure AMD will undercut GTX 1070 with the partially disabled small Vega SKU as they are coming to market much later. At a price of USD 349 that partially disabled Vega SKU is definitely mainstream. I see HBM2/HBM3/low cost HBM and gddr5x/gddr6 coexist and satisfy different market segment needs. low cost HBM is a a perfect fit for AMD APUs which are bandwidth starved.
What if Enthusiast Vega is the bigger one GPU? And is aimed at... Volta?
What if High-End Vega is really going out this year?
Two discreet GPUs will use Vega architecture. All of Raven Ridge APUs will use Vega architecture, because it is exactly the same GPU family with Graphics IPv9, according to data from OpenCL drivers.
What if Vega architecture mainstream is only in high-end APUs with pretty huge price tag, like 499$? How much would you have to pay for RX 470 and quad core Intel i7 CPU? AMD has given us a lot of clues lately what might happen in future with Zen, Vega, and Raven Ridge. Its the matter of connecting the dots.
Those are not my expectations. Those are just possibilities, that can occur in upcoming months.You really need to reign in your expectations.