AMD Radeon RX 3000 Series Navi GPU Specs Leaked...OC3D

[railven]

pff i make my own baking soda of course, the other day i dumped hot water down the drain then baking soda / vinegar, cleared up the plug nicely. I really dont believe 250$ 1080 performance either unless it uses more heat/watts.

Wife got into DIY cleaning detergeants. Most work really well, but what she made for the dishwasher always left streaks. So I finally snapped and bought some Cascade tablets which do a great job with glass - everything else has streaks :/

But back on topic, at this point I'm just going to wait for results. The AMD leaks tend to peg AMD closer to the moon than the NV leaks. Nothing against anyone, but the hunger for an AMD revival is so strong you have posters believing the magic driver arguments.

Want a strong AMD even if just for options.

Is that what I said?

It was your argument. if you want to clarify on that, by all means.

Ok, but just who's coming off as being upset now? Him in his video that is about 1.5 years old (!) or you being annoyed he used the word "sheep" in that 1.5-year old video? I mean, hold a grudge much?

I'm not upset. This is written word. It's hard to infer someone's emotion. I'm rarely upset. There are far more pressing issues in my life than AMD's mind share or Adore's commentary. I posted my opinion on him and why I stopped watching his videos. Again, you can shill as much as you want to me. I'll continue consuming your content UNTIL you start resorting to blanket statements. He contradicts himself in his own statement of calling consumers sheep. NV is delivering a product these people want. Once brand loyalty/preference kicks in, you have what we're seeing - people choosing GTX 1660 with ZERO games over RX 590 with 3 games. And I don't blame them, but Adore would rather call them sheep.

I'm absolutely fine with calling sheep "sheep", if that's what they are. If they're insulted by that I'm ok with that too. They can always not be a sheep (maybe)..

Sure, and you're a sheep too. So, welcome to the herd

 

[Adawy]

Wife got into DIY cleaning detergeants. Most work really well, but what she made for the dishwasher always left streaks. So I finally snapped and bought some Cascade tablets which do a great job with glass - everything else has streaks :/

But back on topic, at this point I'm just going to wait for results. The AMD leaks tend to peg AMD closer to the moon than the NV leaks. Nothing against anyone, but the hunger for an AMD revival is so strong you have posters believing the magic driver arguments.

Want a strong AMD even if just for options.



It was your argument. if you want to clarify on that, by all means.


I'm not upset. This is written word. It's hard to infer someone's emotion. I'm rarely upset. There are far more pressing issues in my life than AMD's mind share or Adore's commentary. I posted my opinion on him and why I stopped watching his videos. Again, you can shill as much as you want to me. I'll continue consuming your content UNTIL you start resorting to blanket statements. He contradicts himself in his own statement of calling consumers sheep. NV is delivering a product these people want. Once brand loyalty/preference kicks in, you have what we're seeing - people choosing GTX 1660 with ZERO games over RX 590 with 3 games. And I don't blame them, but Adore would rather call them sheep.



Sure, and you're a sheep too. So, welcome to the herd

Behold our alpha, our leader, salute. /s

Now seriously, i'll admit I let the hype get to me when I saw Adored's recent leak, until I realized that he was just like the rest, lying for views and attention.

He's not an analyst either, an analyst must be 100% neutral all the time, he's too baised and thinks that he's on a "mission" to make people buy AMD.

Like you said, he likely owns AMD shares and wants some profit or he simply can't control his hate and struggling with the thought that what's happening in the world is not your problem.

 

[mattiasnyc]

It was your argument. if you want to clarify on that, by all means.

No, it wasn't. Go back and re-read what I wrote.

I'm not upset. This is written word. It's hard to infer someone's emotion. I'm rarely upset. There are far more pressing issues in my life than AMD's mind share or Adore's commentary.

You come off as upset, which is why I wrote that.

He contradicts himself in his own statement of calling consumers sheep. NV is delivering a product these people want. Once brand loyalty/preference kicks in, you have what we're seeing - people choosing GTX 1660 with ZERO games over RX 590 with 3 games. And I don't blame them, but Adore would rather call them sheep.

I'm not sure why you keep using this specific example, but I have the strongest feeling you don't have the same definition of "sheep" as he does. You're not not a "sheep" simply because you have a desire, loyalty and preference.

Sure, and you're a sheep too. So, welcome to the herd

I'm probably not a "sheep" using the commonly accepted definition. I can't think of a single product or brand that I'm loyal to. I'm running an AMD CPU with an Nvidia GPU for example. I work on Windows machines and Macs. I have a Windows phone still. I spent hours and hours before buying my exercise gear, evaluating what gave me the best value for money, which ended up leading me to the leading brand watch and a lesser known "budget" bike.

I'm likely far more more independent and pragmatic than most, and I think that was part of Jim's point; the masses are generally uninformed and just go with the rest of the herd.

 

[mattiasnyc]

I realized that he was just like the rest, lying for views and attention.

Can you post a link to a video in which you know for a fact that he lied? And also point out just where that lie was?

He's not an analyst either, an analyst must be 100% neutral all the time, he's too baised and thinks that he's on a "mission" to make people buy AMD.

In your opinion:

- Can an analyst ever make a recommendation to people on which product or brand to buy?
- Can an analyst ever come to any conclusion about "value" / or what does "100% neutral" mean to you?

 

[DrMrLordX]

AMD hasn't even come close to hitting 2x performance per watt increases with new nodes or new architectures.

Wait, what?

Radeon Vii (Vega 20 @ 7nm) has 50% less power at the same performance as Vega 64. That translates in to 2x perf/w over Vega 64.

Thanks, I was gonna say just that.

All that aside, I do not think Navi10 will have enough oomph to perform 15% faster than Vega64. If it can, then great, but I do not expect it. Something at Vega56 level, or between Vega56 and Vega64, seems more likely. There have been a few leaks of 66AF:F1 (which is allegedly Navi) on GFXBench but the numbers are weird.

 

[Rifter]

Who said that was going to happen?

The chart in post # 1

Vega 64+15% = RVII performance
$249 = 1/3 RVII pricing

 

[mattiasnyc]

The chart in post # 1

Vega 64+15% = RVII performance
$249 = 1/3 RVII pricing

Ah, I see. It's only got half the memory though so for those looking for a workstation card that may make a big difference. Editing/Grading 4k-8k footage for example will need a lot of memory, and the 16GB HBM2 on vII is a good thing. So there's that.

But yes, I agree that it's a weird proposition. It would require the vII to drop in price regardless I think. The question is what the market would accept for either card. If the chart would be correct then I could still see the VII marketed as a workstation card at least twice as expensive, because you're paying for that memory. That'll depend on what Nvidia does too of course.

Anyway, thanks for pointing that out, because for some reason that completely escaped me.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm skeptical of this. The main reason is that Vega 64 + 15% is basically a Radeon VII which is $700.

This. I can't fathom how this leak could possibly be true. The only advantage left of the (completely limited run) Radeon VII would be the developer bits and drivers, but no way that would be worth +$450. Talk about shoving salt in the eyes and throats of VII owners.

 

[Hitman928]

Radeon VII is more like 25% faster than Vega64 and has 16 GB memory vs. the rumored 8 GB in Navi.

Spoiler: Graphs

https://www.techspot.com/review/1791-amd-radeon-vii-mega-benchmark/

https://www.computerbase.de/2019-02/amd-radeon-vii-test/3/#diagramm-performancerating-1920-1080

That with the (presumed) added DP capability will justify a premium over Navi from a perf/$ perspective. With that said, $250 vs $700 doesn't seem likely.

 

[coercitiv]

This. I can't fathom how this leak could possibly be true. The only advantage left of the (completely limited run) Radeon VII would be the developer bits and drivers, but no way that would be worth +$450. Talk about shoving salt in the eyes and throats of VII owners.

I can assure you the people who bought the VII would have no issue whatsoever with AMD launching a $250 Vega 64 + 15% gaming torpedo towards the main RTX sellers. Some are die-hard fans , others bought this card for more pragmatical reasons such as compute/vram specs (which an 8GB GDDR6 Navi wouldn't touch).

Having said that let's return in an orderly fashion to the real tech world where AMD makes less revolutionary jumps in performance and perf/dollar for that matter. Even if the miracle happens, it won't happen at $250 just because someone wished on a falling star.

 

[maddie]

The implied assumption is that VII was always meant to be a gamer product, versus a hastily offered product made relevant by nvidia's new pricing structure.. If it was not, then the whole idea of Navi replacing VII falls apart.

VII is a professional product suddenly finding some additional sales as a gamer card.
Navi is a pure gaming card with little to no high end compute relevance.

With these assumptions, there is no conflict.

Edit:
Not claiming that the prices and performance levels are true, just that using Radeon VII as an argument to refute the OP, is weak logic in my view.

 

[ozzy702]

We'll see. Seems too good to be true, but if these rumors are true then good on AMD and I see them capturing a ton of marketshare.

 

[railven]

No, it wasn't. Go back and re-read what I wrote.

I commented on your opinion on why he said what he did. My response to that was basically "so." Again, I quoted you and put bold on what I was responding to. If I interpreted it wrong, by all means clarify.

You come off as upset, which is why I wrote that.

It's easier to dismiss someone's comments/posts/opinions if they are deemed emotional. Funny thing is, my emotions will always side with team red (been a part of my life for so long). Which is always odd when I get the "you defend NV" or "NV shill" counters. Not saying you are doing any of this, but again I don't understand how you infer me being upset through written word without clear word usage stating I'm upset.

I'm not sure why you keep using this specific example, but I have the strongest feeling you don't have the same definition of "sheep" as he does. You're not not a "sheep" simply because you have a desire, loyalty and preference.

And this ties back to his reasoning for calling people sheep and my instant decision to turn him off. You don't call people sheep/<insert your preferred insult> because they don't take your side, that's just petty. And I know people are "sheep." There are enough mainstream products/genres/topics that I personally can't stand. You know what I don't do - call these people sheep. They are individuals and if they want to follow the herd for whatever reason, kudos to them. What hurt me more than anyone this generation were miners. And I still don't wouldn't call them sheep for jumping on an easy money bandwagon. It's tasteless, and too easy to just throw people into a category you don't like because they don't agree with you.

It does nothing to resolve the problems we're facing except again creating more vitriol and forcing people to double down.

I'm probably not a "sheep" using the commonly accepted definition. I can't think of a single product or brand that I'm loyal to. I'm running an AMD CPU with an Nvidia GPU for example. I work on Windows machines and Macs. I have a Windows phone still. I spent hours and hours before buying my exercise gear, evaluating what gave me the best value for money, which ended up leading me to the leading brand watch and a lesser known "budget" bike.

I don't know anything about you. I can't say we've ever really had a discussion. But look at how quickly you jumped to defend yourself from a stranger calling you a sheep.

I'm likely far more more independent and pragmatic than most, and I think that was part of Jim's point; the masses are generally uninformed and just go with the rest of the herd.

Stating an obvious doesn't make your pragmatic. If anything it makes you the opposite of the same coin. You're just as much a "sheep" for buying AMD as anyone is a sheep for buying Nvidia. Just have to change the requirement/arguments/stances/time of purchases/yada-yada-yada.

Neither of these companies care about us. If you want the best bang for your buck, you're buying product A w/tons of freebies, cashing in the freebies, selling the card used for $20 less or returning it, and then flipping around and buying the better used product in your price range. Hell, someone else can come in and throw in another few steps and I'll come off as the sheep. Haha.

 

[Guru]

AMD is taking their time with Navi, which seems promising to me. Their next 7nm product placement are their desktop processors, only later on will we see Navi. So judging by 7nm pricing, availability, and AMD's strategy, it seems most likely that Navi will launch Q3 2019. I'm assuming they are going to want to push an August launch, in order to get good 5 months on Nvidia before they come with their own 7nm GPU's.

The best thing going for AMD right now in a way is limited 7nm availability and they've ordered tons of it for all of their CPU's and GPU's, so Nvidia is going to get a hold of it only in late 2019 in decent quantities.

To me Navi is going to be an all round gaming GPU, meaning high end to low end cards. I think its going to perform much better than people are expecting. How do I know this? Well look at RX 400/500 series on the jump from 28nm to 14nm! RX 400/500 series performed on average 50% better than their older counterpoints at the same price points.

Everyone is looking at Radeon 7 and going meh, but Radeon 7 is an updated Vega design, it's updates are not even gaming focused, they were compute focused for the professional market. The jump to 7nm and what optimizations they did allowed it to be 35% more power efficient than Vega 64. Its essentially 30% faster at slightly lower power consumption and that is with 16GB of Vram and a massive triple fan cooler. That cooler alone probably consumes 30W of power.

So a completely overhauled architecture, build from the ground up on 7nm with the more efficient and effective GDDR6 memory, I think we are looking at massive power reduction rates. I think the RX 580 alternative from Navi at the same speeds is going to consume no more than 100W.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Like I said, you apparently don't have the same definition of "sheep" as a lot of other people do, and that's evident from what you write.


From "urban dictionary" for example:

"Someone who mindessly follows and emulates anything and everything"

"1. A group of people who lack the capacity for careful consideration, imagination, or individual thought, who thusly go with group and allow god awful trends and events to unfold "

"A person who likes anything and everything that "everyone" likes (trends, etc.) for the sake of being cool. "

from https://www.wordreference.com/definition/sheep:

"a meek, unimaginative person, or one who is easily led."

from Wikipedia (disambiguation):

"slang for unquestioningly obedient, naive, or innocent followers"


In case it isn't clear: Just buying what everyone else buys doesn't make you a sheep. It is the reason for why you do what you do that makes you a sheep. All the highlighted key words above show that pretty clearly. And I really think that's what was frustrating Jim.

Calling everyone a "sheep" means the word is useless. It clearly has a meaning despite you not liking it.

 

[railven]

Like I said, you apparently don't have the same definition of "sheep" as a lot of other people do, and that's evident from what you write.

Odd that you state this again, then link a definition that basically includes examples similar to what I stated in my post.

In case it isn't clear: Just buying what everyone else buys doesn't make you a sheep.

No, it doesn't. Yet, Adored has no problem essentially labeling people sheep.

It is the reason for why you do what you do that makes you a sheep. All the highlighted key words above show that pretty clearly. And I really think that's what was frustrating Jim.

What I've been trying to show you is that essentially everyone can be called a sheep if you change the criteria being argued.

Calling everyone a "sheep" means the word is useless. It clearly has a meaning despite you not liking it.

I'm not calling everyone a sheep. Just people that don't agree with me. Like Adored did Except I'm saying it tongue-in-cheek to prove how tasteless/pointless of a statement it is to make. It's petty and defeats any stance that is taken.

In the end it doesn't matter. It was my own personal protest against a Youtuber I pretty much liked. He use to take the high road, but it wasn't giving him the results he wanted. So he's catering to a different audience now. One that doesn't include me. Of which there is nothing wrong with any of it.

 

[jpiniero]

The best thing going for AMD right now in a way is limited 7nm availability and they've ordered tons of it for all of their CPU's and GPU's, so Nvidia is going to get a hold of it only in late 2019 in decent quantities.

nVidia is IIRC using Samsung's 7 nm EUV. So TSMC's availability doesn't really matter in that case. When Samsung's node will be ready to go remains to be seen.

 

[Guru]

nVidia is IIRC using Samsung's 7 nm EUV. So TSMC's availability doesn't really matter in that case. When Samsung's node will be ready to go remains to be seen.

As far as I know Samsung don't really sell to outside groups, at least not in any actual big quantities, they licence it out to other wafer manufacturers like GloFo.

Plus they are significantly behind TSMC.

 

[NostaSeronx]

they licence it out to other wafer manufacturers like GloFo.

Samsung has their own fabs... S1/S3 in South Korea, S2 in America. GlobalFoundries' Fab 8 only supports a single copy-exact node from Samsung.

Plus they are significantly behind TSMC.

Samsung sacrificed an actual 7nm DUV node, to actually lead 7nm through 3nm EUV. While, the current EUV line isn't big, the full EUV line will be ready in 2020 for the 3nm node.

Samsung's 7LPP/5LPE/4LPE is a bit ahead of TSMC's 7FF+/5FF.

 

[AtenRa]

Navi is a pure gaming card with little to no high end compute relevance.

With these assumptions, there is no conflict.

Where this assumption comes from??

 

[maddie]

As far as I know Samsung don't really sell to outside groups, at least not in any actual big quantities, they licence it out to other wafer manufacturers like GloFo.

Plus they are significantly behind TSMC.

GTX1050 & 1050Ti models feel insulted.

 

[guskline]

BAAH, I am a sheep since I bought a Radeon VII. Ha Ha just making fun of myself.

I've owned a number of Nvidia cards and a number of AMD cards.

My 2 cents is that Navi is going to be released to go head to head with Turig mid range such as the GTX1660TI.

If a Navi is released that beats the Rad VII at a less expensive price, so be it.

I replaced a GTX 1080 (very nice card) with my Rad VII so I could have an all AMD high end rig. Threadripper isn't in the cards right now since I own the rigs below and since I'm not a content creator.

What I have learned through the years is that the top end cards are going to get eclipsed no matter what you pay for them. Just enjoy them.

BTW, Dr. Su of AMD is extremely focused. She lost many at the RTG division and is taking her time to solidify that division. Releasing Navi when it is truly ready is a smart move.

 

[Auer]

I always wanted 60fps 4k gaming for $250.

I'd be all over that, but not expecting that to happen soon.

If AMD can make that and still be profitable, and also keep that performance/value trend going for the next generation that would be great. And hugely optimistic thinking.

At this stage it might be more realistic to expect AMD to match the RTX2070 in price/performance. Without RTX and DLSS obviously.

 

[mattiasnyc]

No, it doesn't. Yet, Adored has no problem essentially labeling people sheep.

But not for the reasons you imply he does.

He's arguing that the masses overwhelmingly supporting one brand when it is not in their interest to do so should get informed so that they could make choices that are better for all, and that the only people that understand this are people that thus get informed. His channel is one of several channels that (according to him) spread this information, but only "enthusiasts" listen to that type of information. Others just lap up the vanilla superficial information and go with the herd.

Thus, his argument is that people (average consumers) in general are sheep specifically because they remain uninformed, and he proposes that they prefer to remain uninformed because they have the option of getting this information yet don't, and the reason they don't is because they don't want to be informed. This willful ignorance is what make people "sheep", not just because they chose something other than what he would have chosen.

If you can't comprehend this distinction by now then we're at an impasse.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Lest we forget the demise of the crypto-currency market and mining rigs. You think the market will support inflated prices?