AMD Radeon RX 3000 Series Navi GPU Specs Leaked...OC3D

[Auer]

Lest we forget the demise of the crypto-currency market and mining rigs. You think the market will support inflated prices?

As soon as people stop buying at current prices they will come down. Any predictions on when that will happen?

 

[Mopetar]

I don't understand why people, especially one's with a platform, think it's their duty to tell other people how to spend their money (worst, as of late, life their lives!).

Well outside of someone who evaluates products as a living (in which case it kind of is their job) there're a lot of people who have so little to say for themselves personally that they need to define themselves by the brands they use, in which case attacks on brands become attacks on them personally. There's also the general human tribal behavior pattern that means even choosing different brands by mere happenstance is enough to get two people to dislike each other for no other reason or cause. Humans are silly creatures.

Like I said, you apparently don't have the same definition of "sheep" as a lot of other people do, and that's evident from what you write.


From "urban dictionary" for example:

"1. A group of people who lack the capacity for careful consideration, imagination, or individual thought, who thusly go with group and allow god awful trends and events to unfold "

Completely off topic (and rather tongue in cheek) but doesn't using dictionary definitions sort of make a person a sheep as well? It shows a lack of individual thought and willingness to go with a group decision.

As a human I'm also a silly creature and sometimes I make silly observations.

 

[Mopetar]

This. I can't fathom how this leak could possibly be true. The only advantage left of the (completely limited run) Radeon VII would be the developer bits and drivers, but no way that would be worth +$450. Talk about shoving salt in the eyes and throats of VII owners.

Personally I'm of the opinion that Radeon VII was a stopgap product that mainly exists so AMD could have a GPU announcement at CES. AMD won't care if they obsolete that product and the only people who would buy it are AMD or GPU enthusiasts so there's no lost loyalty. They could probably just fully unlock the double precision capabilities of the card if people grumbled, in which case they actually bought a really cheap Radeon Instinct card.

The only thing I don't think is reasonable is the price. It's certainly possible that AMD could have a lean, gaming focused GPU that fixes the shortcomings in GCN to make them competitive in a way they haven't been in years. I'm skeptical about that, but it's certainly possible. However, even if they could do that, I don't think they price as low as suggested unless they've got some magic approach (like Zen chiplets) that flips the cost calculations on their head. If they've got something that competes with the 2070, I think they sell it closer to $350 so it prices against the 2060, and then they follow suit for the rest of their stack.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Not sure if that was for me, but "market" and "inflated prices" seems like odd terms. The value of goods and services fluctuate over time on the market based on supply and demand. "Inflated" doesn't really seem like it says much by itself.

If you mean that the prices were 'inflated' into a temporary 'bubble' because of mining then sure, it won't support that pricing forever. On the other hand, mining was profitable because the currency was profitable to mine. There's nothing that says that can't happen again and we won't see another 'bubble', I think it's possible regardless of how cards are priced at the beginning of that temporary inflation.

If you mean that pricing was sort of "artificially" inflated due to manufacturers not supplying all they could to increase prices then that's something I missed but something that of course is of concern. And it's also why we should all want more competition as consumers.

 

[railven]

But not for the reasons you imply he does.

He's arguing that the masses overwhelmingly supporting one brand when it is not in their interest to do so should get informed so that they could make choices that are better for all, and that the only people that understand this are people that thus get informed. His channel is one of several channels that (according to him) spread this information, but only "enthusiasts" listen to that type of information. Others just lap up the vanilla superficial information and go with the herd.

Thus, his argument is that people (average consumers) in general are sheep specifically because they remain uninformed, and he proposes that they prefer to remain uninformed because they have the option of getting this information yet don't, and the reason they don't is because they don't want to be informed. This willful ignorance is what make people "sheep", not just because they chose something other than what he would have chosen.

If you can't comprehend this distinction by now then we're at an impasse.

Had typed out a response, but frankly this is perhaps the third time you've stated I was wrong even using statements I've already made and definitions I already included in my own posts. When I asked you to clarify on what you said I interpreted wrong, you provided no further insight and continued to state I'm wrong. Makes you wonder if he'd be so quick to call people sheep if AMD weren't in their current position. But clearly, I am wrong. So let's leave it at that.

Well outside of someone who evaluates products as a living (in which case it kind of is their job) there're a lot of people who have so little to say for themselves personally that they need to define themselves by the brands they use, in which case attacks on brands become attacks on them personally. There's also the general human tribal behavior pattern that means even choosing different brands by mere happenstance is enough to get two people to dislike each other for no other reason or cause. Humans are silly creatures.

I guess where my bone is starting to go rotten is with this holier than thou crap that seems to be resonating from reviewers. Especially in this culture war. Can't dislike a movie with a lead female or you're a misogynist. Can't criticize a movie with a black lead or you're racist. Can't support the old white guy for politics or you're a Nazi. Journalists/Reviewers are no longer making suggestions based on pros/cons of products, they are out right trying to use their platforms to persuade people into what they believe is right. Ironically, doing so just creates more "sheep". But you aren't a sheep if you follow their ideas, only if you follow others ideas. It's just a bunch of non-sense that keeps entering my daily reads and I have no idea where it stemmed from.

And I completely agree with you, humans are silly creatures.

As a human I'm also a silly creature and sometimes I make silly observations.

My observations are ridiculous. I spend too much time trying to reason people's actions. I often find myself laughing when I realize they might be doing something similar to my actions. End of the day, I just want a cold drink, and something to eat. And I'm pretty sure everyone else would agree with something similar. So we're all brothers-in-arms to a degree. So cheers to everyone!

 

[mattiasnyc]

this culture war.

There's a culture war???

Can't dislike a movie with a lead female or you're a misogynist. Can't criticize a movie with a black lead or you're racist. Can't support the old white guy for politics or you're a Nazi.

Oh, right. Bet I know who's always on the receiving end of those unfair characterizations.

Journalists/Reviewers are no longer making suggestions based on pros/cons of products, they are out right trying to use their platforms to persuade people into what they believe is right. Ironically, doing so just creates more "sheep".

So now there are sheep out there? I'm confused...

 

[railven]

So now there are sheep out there? I'm confused...

It seems one of us isn't reading what the other is posting. /shrug Oh well.

 

[Ajay]

Seriously, is the ATOT or P&N ? Please cut out all the off topic back and forth.

 

[beginner99]

As soon as people stop buying at current prices they will come down. Any predictions on when that will happen?

It won't. NV has a near monopoly at this point and the 2070 and higher are basically professional cards they can sell at much higher prices to other companies for compute or AI. So they can sell most chips the make if allocated right even if consumers stop buying them. We will get stagnation like with CPUs. half a decade for a meaningful increase. You will often upgrade for better features than for better performance.

 

[Guru]

It won't. NV has a near monopoly at this point and the 2070 and higher are basically professional cards they can sell at much higher prices to other companies for compute or AI. So they can sell most chips the make if allocated right even if consumers stop buying them. We will get stagnation like with CPUs. half a decade for a meaningful increase. You will often upgrade for better features than for better performance.

What? For features? Not a chance. The dumb and dumber of this world might, but the vast majority of people who actually value other stuff like eating food, going out sometimes and buying coffee, paying their bills in time, etc... they won't pay premium prices for the same turds with few new "features".

I mean look at Turing, it isn't selling well. Pascal was flying off the shelfs all the time, they had trouble keeping up with demand for a whole year. Again people aren't that stupid, they won't spend $280 for a GTX 1660ti, when they bought a GTX 1060 just 2 years ago for $250, when the 1660ti is up to a MAX of 30% faster, more in line of 25% faster.

Heck even a RTX 2060 isn't worth it, because its out of their price range and at 50% faster, it's also not a value proposition.

That is why I've always said that the RTX 2060 is a good card in its own bubble, $350 for a GTX 1070ti performance and comes with 1 free game, but only if you ignore the Pascal lineup or AMD's lineup. Why would anyone with a RX 570 or better or GTX 1060 3GB or better upgrade to a RTX 2060?

Now if you are on older generation, like GTX 960 or GTX 780 or AMD's R380, r390 it might make sense, bit guess what most of those people already bought new graphic cards, that is why the Pascal line sold so well, Nvidia before that sold giant turds, the GTX 960, 950, 770, 760, etc... were giant turds that were slow and expensive, so when a card like the 1060 came around or 1070 came around people couldn't wait to replace their overexpensive slow turds. So they got rid of their 950,960,760,770,780, etc... bought 1060's and 1070's. Some even 1080's.

 

[Markfw]

What? For features? Not a chance. The dumb and dumber of this world might, but the vast majority of people who actually value other stuff like eating food, going out sometimes and buying coffee, paying their bills in time, etc... they won't pay premium prices for the same turds with few new "features".

I mean look at Turing, it isn't selling well. Pascal was flying off the shelfs all the time, they had trouble keeping up with demand for a whole year. Again people aren't that stupid, they won't spend $280 for a GTX 1660ti, when they bought a GTX 1060 just 2 years ago for $250, when the 1660ti is up to a MAX of 30% faster, more in line of 25% faster.

Heck even a RTX 2060 isn't worth it, because its out of their price range and at 50% faster, it's also not a value proposition.

That is why I've always said that the RTX 2060 is a good card in its own bubble, $350 for a GTX 1070ti performance and comes with 1 free game, but only if you ignore the Pascal lineup or AMD's lineup. Why would anyone with a RX 570 or better or GTX 1060 3GB or better upgrade to a RTX 2060?

Now if you are on older generation, like GTX 960 or GTX 780 or AMD's R380, r390 it might make sense, bit guess what most of those people already bought new graphic cards, that is why the Pascal line sold so well, Nvidia before that sold giant turds, the GTX 960, 950, 770, 760, etc... were giant turds that were slow and expensive, so when a card like the 1060 came around or 1070 came around people couldn't wait to replace their overexpensive slow turds. So they got rid of their 950,960,760,770,780, etc... bought 1060's and 1070's. Some even 1080's.

I just got 2 2060's for $350 each , and 3 2080TI's for $1000 each, as for my folding, they save me a lot of money in electricity. At $600 a month, using half the power won't take me long to make that back. (the money I am getting for my 1080TI's is also financing this)

So don't call me one of the "dumb and dumber", there are reasons to buy these things, and probably a lot more reasons than what I just stated.

 

[Guru]

I just got 2 2060's for $350 each , and 3 2080TI's for $1000 each, as for my folding, they save me a lot of money in electricity. At $600 a month, using half the power won't take me long to make that back. (the money I am getting for my 1080TI's is also financing this)

So don't call me one of the "dumb and dumber", there are reasons to buy these things, and probably a lot more reasons than what I just stated.

So did you buy the RTX 2080ti for features? Or because it was the fastest card on the market?

My whole argument is to the person above me who said that in the future we won't buy cards because of performance improvements, that there essentially there will be none, and that we'll buy GPU's because of features. I think that is utter garbage, anyone that would buy cards for "features" is to me dumb.

I can't see any reasonable person who would buy a GPU just for features. Name me one that would buy the RTX 2080ti if it was the same performance as GTX 1080ti, but with the RTX "features"?

 

[Markfw]

So did you buy the RTX 2080ti for features? Or because it was the fastest card on the market?

My whole argument is to the person above me who said that in the future we won't buy cards because of performance improvements, that there essentially there will be none, and that we'll buy GPU's because of features. I think that is utter garbage, anyone that would buy cards for "features" is to me dumb.

I can't see any reasonable person who would buy a GPU just for features. Name me one that would buy the RTX 2080ti if it was the same performance as GTX 1080ti, but with the RTX "features"?

I got it because it uses less power, and has more performance than the 1080TI, both of which save me money (after selling the 1080ti).

As far as features, I am sure some would buy it because of those.

 

[Bouowmx]

Hard to stay on-topic when the OP is old stuff and has been well-discussed already. close this thread?

 

[Ranulf]

I just got 2 2060's for $350 each , and 3 2080TI's for $1000 each, as for my folding, they save me a lot of money in electricity. At $600 a month, using half the power won't take me long to make that back. (the money I am getting for my 1080TI's is also financing this)

So don't call me one of the "dumb and dumber", there are reasons to buy these things, and probably a lot more reasons than what I just stated.

Oh come on. You're not even using the cards for the stated first purpose, video gaming. You're doing it because you get kicks/entertainment/value/purpose out of folding aka subsidizing cancer/alien/whatever research data. Cool beans and I'm sure it makes sense on the power savings alone. However, many people would look at you as insane for spending $600/month on the electricity for that.

Bah, this is just more of the endless debate over performance per watt and performance per dollar. It swaps around depending on who wants to justify what product at whatever time. People who cared endlessly about power usage all of a sudden only care about raw performance and overlocking and vice versa.

 

[ozzy702]

Hard to stay on-topic when the OP is old stuff and has been well-discussed already. close this thread?

^ This. We have zero new credible information about NAVI, so until we do these lame rumor threads should be instantly closed.

 

[Topweasel]

I can't see any reasonable person who would buy a GPU just for features. Name me one that would buy the RTX 2080ti if it was the same performance as GTX 1080ti, but with the RTX "features"?

At it's increased price probably no-one. But that isn't always the case. I tend to be a feature guy myself. I got a Radeon VII over a 2080 because by the time RT matters I think the performance hit on the 2080 will be to much and we are probably about 2 gens away from where the penalty for RT doesn't take us below performance levels that are acceptable. I think the 16GB and mem bandwidth will give the Radeon longer legs. But generally if I am looking at two similar pieces of hardware and there a more features on one even at a price premium, I get that. Hell I had a nuon DVD player back in the day. So if the discussion was between a 1080ti and 2080. I would get the 2080 every time.

There is no problem buying stuff for features, even ones you won't generally used, if you think there is a chance you might. Least in my opinion. Lots of times you need that adoption rate of the hardware first before a feature really becomes useful anyways. If no one spent a dime on RTX hardware. Then no developers would work on it unless paid by Nvidia. Back in the day we called this the early adopters fee. I would hate to think back to the early days of Nvidia, if 3dFX wasn't always 6 months to a year behind in performance, if People got Voodoo 4's and 5's instead just because T&L wasn't as useful at the time.

 

[Topweasel]

^ This. We have zero new credible information about NAVI, so until we do these lame rumor threads should be instantly closed.

That's silly Rumor threads are rumor threads. It shouldn't have to be credible. It should be a place for people to post what they hear. Maybe the thread needs to be cleaned up. I think there is room to talk about what performance and features between competitors in the discussion within reason. But there was no excuse for that quick derailment and had nothing to do with how much the OP has already been talked about in the past. If the thread should die, let it die on the vine by lack of participation.

 

[Ajay]

Hard to stay on-topic when the OP is old stuff and has been well-discussed already. close this thread?

Okay, good point.

 

[ozzy702]

That's silly Rumor threads are rumor threads. It shouldn't have to be credible. It should be a place for people to post what they hear. Maybe the thread needs to be cleaned up. I think there is room to talk about what performance and features between competitors in the discussion within reason. But there was no excuse for that quick derailment and had nothing to do with how much the OP has already been talked about in the past. If the thread should die, let it die on the vine by lack of participation.

This isn't even a new rumor, just old rehashed nonsense.

 

[Feld]

This isn't even a new rumor, just old rehashed nonsense.

Does the forum have a rule disallowing the discussion of any given topic if it has previously been discussed at some point in the past? I would think it would be easy enough to simply ignore the thread if you don't find it productive.

 

[Shmee]

Honestly it is time to close this thread, too much off topic arguing over nothing but old rumors.