Question AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
Asus ROG ALLY looks pretty promising. Would It be a good replacement to my i5-9300H + GTX1650 + 24GB DDR4 + 1.5TB SSD? Probably not worth It.

Advantages:
1. CPU performance would see a massive improvement, at least ST +50% and MT +150%
2. very portable, small form factor, light
3. low power consumption
4. Compatible with Steam etc.

Disadvantages:
1. IGP won't see any significant improvement compared to GTX1650, but higher Vram allocation could help.
2. I honestly doubt It will have a long battery life during gaming, but this is not that important for me.
3. 16GB DDR5 + 512GB SSD, although MicroSD slot is available
4. No kickstand
5. Windows 11 :p
6. Need to buy additional Dock for It to connect to monitor, keyboard etc.
Click to expand...

That s not a relevant device for laptop like usage, my point is that such a device can be sold for 700$ then it s possible to make a laptop that s below 1000$.
 
moinmoin

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
Disadvantages:
1. IGP won't see any significant improvement compared to GTX1650, but higher Vram allocation could help.
2. I honestly doubt It will have a long battery life during gaming, but this is not that important for me.
5. Windows 11 :p
Click to expand...
I'd hope that SteamOS is installable on it and plenty Steam Deck optimizations also work on Phoenix.

Abwx said:
That s not a relevant device for laptop like usage, my point is that such a device can be sold for 700$ then it s possible to make a laptop that s below 1000$.
Click to expand...
To be honest I'd have set the bar for "affordable" significantly lower than 1000$. But in that case RMB laptops are slowly getting there.

Going by availability in the German market:
  • Rembrandt/Rembrand-R: 237 configurations, starting at 732.26€, 21 below 1000€
  • Dragon Range: 7 configurations, starting at 2199€
  • Phoenix: 2 configurations, starting at 1990.04€
 
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T

TESKATLIPOKA

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May 1, 2020
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Abwx said:
That s not a relevant device for laptop like usage, my point is that such a device can be sold for 700$ then it s possible to make a laptop that s below 1000$.
Click to expand...
Of course, this is not good for office work without a keyboard or touchpad and small screen, but It's very portable.
I am connecting my laptop to a monitor, keyboard and mouse most of the time, so this could be an alternative to me, at least I won't need to buy a 2x costlier laptop.

Phoenix could be put into a laptop <1000$, but they most likely will put It in the more premium ones, because of limited supply.
For the cheaper ones, you will get rebranded Cezanne and Rembrandt.
 
T

TESKATLIPOKA

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ryanjagtap

ryanjagtap

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Sep 25, 2021
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
Videocardz also mentioned some variant of Asus ROG ALLY has a weaker APU, 6C12T + 4CU. Link
I wonder who would want to buy that for a gaming handheld. It will be weaker than Steam Deck.
Click to expand...
I think it's a reporting error. The s/w also reports the 8C/16T APU having 6 CU. Maybe they are reporting WGP instead of CU?
 
NTMBK

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
Videocardz also mentioned some variant of Asus ROG ALLY has a weaker APU, 6C12T + 4CU. Link
I wonder who would want to buy that for a gaming handheld. It will be weaker than Steam Deck.
Click to expand...
Could still be good for emulators? Very strong CPU paired with a modest GPU. Seems a bit of an odd duck.
 
M

Mopetar

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Jan 31, 2011
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Perhaps it's something for the premium ultraportable market or some niche like that. No point in throwing a lot of GPU at something that's trying to shave the battery as much as possible. More cores at lower voltages and clock speeds keeps the MT capabilities comparable to a higher clock speed 4C without chewing through as much power.
 
Heartbreaker

Heartbreaker

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Apr 3, 2006
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Fantasy rumor. Strix Zen 5 APU with up to 40 CUs:

videocardz.com

AMD Ryzen 8000 "Zen5" APUs leak: Strix Halo with RDNA3.5 iGPU to compete with up to RTX 4070 Max-Q - VideoCardz.com

AMD Zen5 mobile lineup leaks out: Strix Point, Strix Halo/Starlak and Fire Range Moore’s Law is Dead has shared some new information on the upcoming AMD Zen5 architecture, possibly the first and biggest leak on the architecture thus far. In this case, we are getting some actual leak, so the...
videocardz.com videocardz.com

The Strix APU series would compete with up to RTX 4070 Max-Q GPU in their 40CU configuration. The RDNA3.5 GPU architecture would also be available with 32, 24 and 20 CU configurations, competing with 4060, 4050 and 3050 series of graphics from NVIDIA.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
 
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BorisTheBlade82

BorisTheBlade82

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May 1, 2020
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guidryp said:
Fantasy rumor. Strix Zen 5 APU with up to 40 CUs:

videocardz.com

AMD Ryzen 8000 "Zen5" APUs leak: Strix Halo with RDNA3.5 iGPU to compete with up to RTX 4070 Max-Q - VideoCardz.com

AMD Zen5 mobile lineup leaks out: Strix Point, Strix Halo/Starlak and Fire Range Moore’s Law is Dead has shared some new information on the upcoming AMD Zen5 architecture, possibly the first and biggest leak on the architecture thus far. In this case, we are getting some actual leak, so the...
videocardz.com videocardz.com


:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Wrong thread and a bit late...
And if they indeed employ infinity cache as well as a 256 bit RAM interface, that is not entirely impossible.
The big "if" for me is rather if AMD would be really interested in such an SKU.

Page 47 - Discussion - Zen 5 Discussion (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 8000)

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Kaluan

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Jan 4, 2022
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tamz_msc said:
Doesn't seem much faster than the 680M test he did with the 6800H. The only common game with the same settings in the two videos is Fortnite, and even though the map is different, the 780M and 680M deliver similar FPS.
Click to expand...
Hence my bold text mentioning how there's loads of software (and the possible DDR5-5600 hardware) faults with this early preview. Not really worth basing much off of these numbers. We need post gold drivers/BIOS ones.
moinmoin said:
Ryzen chips in laptops and affordable don't fit together in one sentence anymore since Rembrandt/Zen 3+.
Click to expand...
Seem the common denominator is DDR5 to me, but I may be wrong.
TESKATLIPOKA said:
Videocardz also mentioned some variant of Asus ROG ALLY has a weaker APU, 6C12T + 4CU. Link
I wonder who would want to buy that for a gaming handheld. It will be weaker than Steam Deck.
Click to expand...
ryanjagtap said:
I think it's a reporting error. The s/w also reports the 8C/16T APU having 6 CU. Maybe they are reporting WGP instead of CU?
Click to expand...
Yep. It's pretty obvious 6 core Phoenix/Ryzen Z1 are based around R5 7640U/HS, which have 8CUs not 4 (2 more than 6-core Rembrandt/Rembrandt-R)
guidryp said:
Fantasy rumor. Strix Zen 5 APU with up to 40 CUs:

videocardz.com

AMD Ryzen 8000 "Zen5" APUs leak: Strix Halo with RDNA3.5 iGPU to compete with up to RTX 4070 Max-Q - VideoCardz.com

AMD Zen5 mobile lineup leaks out: Strix Point, Strix Halo/Starlak and Fire Range Moore’s Law is Dead has shared some new information on the upcoming AMD Zen5 architecture, possibly the first and biggest leak on the architecture thus far. In this case, we are getting some actual leak, so the...
videocardz.com videocardz.com


:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Wrong threat indeed but there is a component that is valid to this thread, there may be a Phoenix refresh or successor coming Q1 next year, and surprisingly it's not called Phoenix-R, it's called Hawk Point, implying bigger changes than just clock refinement. Obviously still based on Zen4 and standard RDNA3.

Edit: Later in the slides/leaks he posts, they claim RDNA3+ for Hawk Point. So it's further clock tuned N4 Phoenix + swapped out RDNA3 for RDNA3 WGPs/graphics subsystem? Huh...
 
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T

TESKATLIPOKA

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May 1, 2020
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Kaluan said:
Yep. It's pretty obvious 6 core Phoenix/Ryzen Z1 are based around R5 7640U/HS, which have 8CUs not 4 (2 more than 6-core Rembrandt/Rembrandt-R)
Click to expand...
Geekbench shows only 2 compute units, in this case It's most likely WGPs. That would mean only 4CU and not 8, which R5 7640HS has.
ASUS-ROG-ALLY-RYZEN-Z1-6CORE.png


edit: changed the wording to make more sense.
 
Last edited:
K

Kaluan

Senior member
Jan 4, 2022
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
Geekbench shows only 2 compute units. Even If that's actually WGP, that would still mean only 4CU and not 8, which R5 7640HS has.
ASUS-ROG-ALLY-RYZEN-Z1-6CORE.png
Click to expand...
We got burned with basing data on what GB says before. It does not have a authoritative hardware detection system, particularly on yet-to-be-released hardware. And it's just one data point anyway.

But we'll see, highly doubt that's the CU count tho.
 
A

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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they should but memory makers are allegedly cutting back on production due to over supply. it's why ddr5 prices have been tanking heavily since december. contrary to the bs some post I don't expect them to rise much at all once the effects of the stop production happen, and I don't really foresee a total cut in production due to the nature of dcs and hyperscalers needing memory out of the blue. the current ai gobbleygook nonsense will ensure there's a buyer.

this cheapness and cost slumping can be seen in SSDs, too on the consumer level. the cost slump was rumored to come onto the horizon, now, more than a year and a half ago from what i remember. we're setting ourselves up for a very cheap pc upgrade experience over the next few years.
 
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Kaluan

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Jan 4, 2022
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jpiniero said:
Isn't that what PHX2 has?
Click to expand...
4, PHX2 has 4 compute units. But 2 WGPs, tho Geekbench does not report WGPs AFAIK.

Either way, like I said, GB may not be the best source for obtaining concrete specs on unreleased products.
 
Heartbreaker

Heartbreaker

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Apr 3, 2006
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AMD gets official about Phoenix for handhelds:
videocardz.com

AMD announces Ryzen Z1 Zen4 APUs for handheld gaming consoles with up to 12 RDNA3 GPU cores - VideoCardz.com

AMD Introduces Ryzen™ Z1 Series Processors, Expanding the “Zen 4” Lineup into Handheld Game Consoles AMD Ryzen Z1 and AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme processors bring ultimate portability and battery life to handheld PC gaming consoles SANTA CLARA, Calif., April 25, 2023 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — Today, AMD...
videocardz.com videocardz.com

AMD-Z1-1536x799.jpg


Too bad they reduced the GPU so much on the basic one. Hope eventual 6-core DIY chips get bigger GPU than that.
 
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R

RTX2080

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Jul 2, 2018
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Looks like it's same full 16MB L3 sharing among 6 Zen4 cores in Z1 as Z1E does. Very different from older speculation(2MB*6). Is Z1 just a cut down version of Z1E? Especially they have same CPUID.


edit: this is exactly what I think, same die as Phoenix but with different V/f control
https://twitter.com/x/status/1650858830421708800
 
Last edited:
Panino Manino

Panino Manino

Golden Member
Jan 28, 2017
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guidryp said:
AMD gets official about Phoenix for handhelds:
videocardz.com

AMD announces Ryzen Z1 Zen4 APUs for handheld gaming consoles with up to 12 RDNA3 GPU cores - VideoCardz.com

AMD Introduces Ryzen™ Z1 Series Processors, Expanding the “Zen 4” Lineup into Handheld Game Consoles AMD Ryzen Z1 and AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme processors bring ultimate portability and battery life to handheld PC gaming consoles SANTA CLARA, Calif., April 25, 2023 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — Today, AMD...
videocardz.com videocardz.com

AMD-Z1-1536x799.jpg


Too bad they reduced the GPU so much on the basic one. Hope eventual 6-core DIY chips get bigger GPU than that.
Click to expand...


This doesn't seem "custom" like the Deck SOC.
Wish they had made something more customized for this segment.
IMO 8 Core is too much. Remove 2 cores to make the chip smaller and cheaper and add those customization to the memory channel to make the GPU faster.

At least will it come with some Xilinx IP?
 
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