Well how could you compare the T-Bird to the P-3 I've heard it all now. Thats the funny thing the Athlon was suppose to be this revolutionary new Product and it has fought tooth and nail with a 5 year old design LOL !!!!!!!!!
It's even more funny that Intel's own newest flagship P4 is slower than their own about 6 years old core in many apps...
What does it matter which processor is faster at a set MHZ? I would have thought that the cost-value is more important than raw performance. For example AMD 1Ghz-$430, P3 1Ghz-$1100 (Australian) Considering the price performance ratio how could anyone go with a P3. For the $1000 P3 you could pick up an AMD 1.2Ghz for half the price and a few sticks of RAM while yer at it. 
NOS
PCI vi card was just the (official anyway) reason for the P4 delay.. not recall (please please get your facts straight)
So far I've heard about two P4 recalls... the first because of a buggy bios on the i850 motherboard. Recalling a product over this is plain stupid IMHO, if all it requires is a frickin' bios flash I don't need to wait several months for Intel to do it for me.. either way none of these actually ever reached any consumers so it's not a huge deal.
Secod was a number of system that had been shipped was recalled due to overheat problems.
Neither of these have been major recalls. However if you take the i820 camino as an example, the reason Intel recalled was that it was a hardware error that could NOT be solved through a bios or software update/patch like e.g. the AMD751/GF1 issue could. If there are incurable problems with AMD750 based board it's not the chipset that is at fault, the many perfectly stable AMD750 boards around is a proof of that.
PCI vi card was just the (official anyway) reason for the P4 delay.. not recall (please please get your facts straight)
So far I've heard about two P4 recalls... the first because of a buggy bios on the i850 motherboard. Recalling a product over this is plain stupid IMHO, if all it requires is a frickin' bios flash I don't need to wait several months for Intel to do it for me.. either way none of these actually ever reached any consumers so it's not a huge deal.
Secod was a number of system that had been shipped was recalled due to overheat problems.
Neither of these have been major recalls. However if you take the i820 camino as an example, the reason Intel recalled was that it was a hardware error that could NOT be solved through a bios or software update/patch like e.g. the AMD751/GF1 issue could. If there are incurable problems with AMD750 based board it's not the chipset that is at fault, the many perfectly stable AMD750 boards around is a proof of that.
Hey!!!!, I have seen and heard a lot of reports that said that the athlon family (duron included), and their chipset (amd 750, 760 kt133..etc.) are very inestable!!, look, I have a memory called Simple tech. (128 in ram), and I want that this ram works in my sistem! so I don`t know what to do... all my sistems were intel based (pentium and pentium -3)and I don`t want to change to a based system that is inestable (in win, in all appz in games). Do I need another power supply (I have one 250w.)??, please, Help me!!!
If I change to a duron, I will change to an Asus A7V
why some power suppy have "atx 2.01"???
please, I need to choose quikly if I change or not from p3 to the duron!
If I change to a duron, I will change to an Asus A7V
why some power suppy have "atx 2.01"???
please, I need to choose quikly if I change or not from p3 to the duron!
<< Hey!!!!, I have seen and heard a lot of reports that said that the athlon family (duron included), and their chipset (amd 750, 760 kt133..etc.) are very inestable!!, >>
It's called Intel FUD campaigning.. plain and simply not true.
<< look, I have a memory called Simple tech. (128 in ram), and I want that this ram works in my sistem >>
That might be a problem... I have encountered a brand of ram called S-tech, and plain and simply, my advice is this whatever you do never ever get this ram.. it's POS. It is likely to do either 1)refuse to work in KT133 based systems or 2)cause severe instablility.
It's because this ram is of extremely low quality, and that is a deadly cocktail mixed with the KT133. I'd definately find a way to test it in a KT133 based system first. Sounds like a potential trouble maker.
BTW, even if you have to buy new RAM the duron way might still be cheaper than the P3
Priit
I would start a revolution in Aussy land at that kind of total over charge for a clearly superior Intel ploduct. Intel clock for clock are more expensive but thats crazy.
Zephyr
I never said that the P-4 had any recalls at all. I was refering to the way intel handles Buggy products like the 820 chipset. Also who cares what the delay was they stopped the release to get the major flaw whatever it might of been out of the product and thats what AMD should of done!!!!!!!! Yea that was some way to solve the GF problem with the 750 casturate it with AGP 1x and buy hi dollar power supplies to fix AMDs screw up. Funny that later revisions had no problems with the GF this points to a bad product that should of been recalled in my mind.
I would start a revolution in Aussy land at that kind of total over charge for a clearly superior Intel ploduct. Intel clock for clock are more expensive but thats crazy.
Zephyr
I never said that the P-4 had any recalls at all. I was refering to the way intel handles Buggy products like the 820 chipset. Also who cares what the delay was they stopped the release to get the major flaw whatever it might of been out of the product and thats what AMD should of done!!!!!!!! Yea that was some way to solve the GF problem with the 750 casturate it with AGP 1x and buy hi dollar power supplies to fix AMDs screw up. Funny that later revisions had no problems with the GF this points to a bad product that should of been recalled in my mind.
omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Intel rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! omg omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL. Guy come on, look how avid you are in proving your points, with a multitude of exclamation points times 10 to the 13th power. It's fun to have a debate and all but be real. Admit to this at least. That being that....
AMD have the best Price Performance Ratio out there right now, and that ratio is better then intels.
Show us that you at least have some balls, and admit to it. Don't dance around it, no tango is needed. Just admit it please. Show us you have some brains, and that's a start.
AMD have the best Price Performance Ratio out there right now, and that ratio is better then intels.
Show us that you at least have some balls, and admit to it. Don't dance around it, no tango is needed. Just admit it please. Show us you have some brains, and that's a start.
<< Yea that was some way to solve the GF problem with the 750 casturate it with AGP 1x and buy hi dollar power supplies to fix AMDs screw up. >>
1) NOS please rell me how much the diffeence between AGP 1X and AGP 2X means in real world preformance? Actually I believe Tom had an artice about it, with some benchmarks... I'll go look for it
It's something along the lines of <5% !!!2) Big powersupplies... please let's stop the whining now shall we... you can't honestly expect to have revolutionary new technology and still run it on the 145W PSU you 486 came with! .. and how much does the P4 require.. 450W is it?
Zephyr at least Intel makes it so you have to use all required hardware rather than let everyone go buy and invest in there flaky products and give the perception of value and then find out you have to have Hugh dollar everything to go with it. I'd much rather have the intel way and wait till I am ready with the dollars to make the dive. LOL!!!!!!!!!
I wonder if Anandtech just added another T-Bird server that's not able to keep up the pace. The forums are acting like they have ever since they started using them, FLAKY
<< Zephyr at least Intel makes it so you have to use all required hardware rather than let everyone go buy and invest in there flaky products and give the perception of value and then find out you have to have Hugh dollar everything to go with it. I'd much rather have the intel way and wait till I am ready with the dollars to make the dive. LOL!!!!!!!!! >>
Wrong again NOS
You don't nessecerely need to buy "high dollar" everything for it to work with AMD you just need to do your homework. e.g I use Apacer ram with every AMD system I built... haven't had a single problem so far, and Apacer ram is not much than a few $ more expensive than the cheapest stuff.. not around here anyway. Same holds true for PSU's ... 300W is pretty much standard now.
Then look at the P4... how's RDRAM for "value"? Even if the P4 preformed decently (which it doesn't) it would still be the mother of all ripoffs.
The only place where you can talk a bout Intel as value is integrated graphics celeron+i810 systems, but it's not much you save since the proce difference between a celeron and a duron can pretty much hold most of the cost you have to add for a equally preformng AGP/pci vid. card if you go Duron.
NOS440: comparing T-bird with P3 from technical viewpoint: only place, where P3 has advantage over T-bird is L2 cache bandwidth. P3 has 256-bit L2 interface vs. T-birds 64-bit, leading to 2X bigger bandwidth of P3's L2 cache (~16Gb/s@1Ghz vs 8Gb/s@1Ghz). But T-birds L2 cache is exclusive whereas P3's isn't and 16-way assosiative vs. P3's 8-way assosiative. With 4 times bigger L1 cache, T-bird has total of 384kb usable on-die cache vs. P3's 256Kb (192Kb on Duron). T-bird has 3 FPU units vs. 2 on P3 and 3 integer units vs. 1 of P3's. T-birds branch predictors table contains 2048 entries vs. P3's 512 entries and branch misprediction costs minimum of 10 clock cycles vs. 12-15 cycles on P3 (19 cycles on P4). It's pretty clear that P3 can't compete against T-bird on brute FPU/integer power. P3 manages to perform like T-bird on apps with heavy SSE optimation and thanks to better SSE optimation on videocards drivers, on most of the games. On apps that has no SSE/3DNow optimation, P3 loses to T-bird pretty badly.
Correct me if I am wrong, I have never had a T-bird based AMD, but doesn't Duron seem to compete very realistically with the existing P3?? I think that is what I have noticed in the reviews on the sites I visit... but I may be wrong....
Priit (&^^^)&*%&^%$#%^#$^#!@&*(Y* who cares about all that techno bull its real word performance that matters and clock for clock there are about even only wat any clear winner can be crowns is with a DDR T-bird system. and than not by much.
<< Priit (&^^^)&*%&^%$#%^#$^#!@&*(Y* who cares about all that techno bull its real word performance that matters and clock for clock there are about even only wat any clear winner can be crowns is with a DDR T-bird system. and than not by much. >>
I care
See the thing is, this is actually very useful information, because of the simple fact that it clearly proves that the K7 arhcitechture holds a huge unused preformance potential over the P6 architechture. Now if you think a little further than this evening or tomorrow whcih cpu do you think we be doing better a couple of years down the road? Sure now you'll argue, who cares.. to that I'll reply I care, being a poor student my systems have to last at least 3-4 years. What I'm basically getting at is that when software starts utilizing the K7 core even the Athlon classic can stay competitative compared to the PIII which is tweaked much furher out. As AMD is gaining marketshares this will actually happen, since software developers will be forced not to overlook AMD anymore.
Oh and about the resell value.. if AMD has lesser resale value (which BTW can be explained through pressure for the Duron) it's a sign of general stupidity, and I don't bend down for stupidity, thus I never buy Intel.
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