AMD "Never Settle" 12.11 Driver - benchmarks are in!

[KingFatty]

I think it's nice to get input from both sides, but it is disappointing to see misdirection, name-calling, or other distractions that avoid the issue.

So even though it's an AMD driver thread, it's good to have input from NVidia's fans because you get to see their points as to why perhaps you might consider a different brand.

Also, it's good to get input because when people make ridiculous nonsense arguments, then they just make a fool of themselves and everyone calls them out. But when they make good points, they come across well.

Anyway, when you mix emotion into it, it's easier to fall for one's own tendency to make logical fallicies etc. that are based on emotion and not reason. If you didn't hear from both sides, it could get carried away and just become an echo chamber.

But one good point that I don't see addressed, is what if AMD is going to have trouble releasing future drivers because of economic reasons? Is that just too speculative?

These drivers were such a leap in performance, that it's just making me think about whether they can maintain that kind of great level of service in the future, or when new games come out, when they are hurting financially? Is it just a blip and they are going to be fine? They seem to be working with more and more developers for optimizing games for AMD cards, so if you just ignore the stock market, all other signs seem to point to yes feel confident in AMD and their drivers?

 

[SlowSpyder]

It is too bad. And your Thuban? Sorry dude. No hope there.

All I need is an unlimited supply of liquid nitrogen and I might be able to shift the bottlenect back to the GPU.


Of course I'd probably overclock the GPU too, then. Guess you're right... no hope.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Why is it acceptable? What is the purpose? What is the point? It's not like you can use the latest Cats on an Nvidia card or the latest Forceware on the Radeon.

What is the purpose of an enthusiast forum if not to compare performance? That's is the entire point of our hobby.

Like I said, there are acceptable ways to compare results. Coming in and basically saying that the competition is crap because they aren't your preferred brand is not acceptable.

 

[Arkaign]

All the following threads have been and will be destroyed by fanbois on one side or the other:

Compute
AMD : It's ESSENTIAL (circa 2010-2012); It's stupid (circa 2007-2009)
NV : It's stupid (circa 2012); It's essential (before 2012)

3D
NV : It's great! Immersive
AMD : It's only in a few crappy games and sucks

Multi-Monitor Gaming
AMD : We have had it for years and it used to be great
NV : It sucked back then and only NV games work on it...

Gaming (In-general)
NV : These cherry-picked titles are all that matters; just so happens NV crushes in benches for them.
AMD : These cherry-picked titles are all that matters; just so happens AMD crushes in benches for them.

Power consumption:
AMD : Doesn't matter, I want POWER (when less efficient); Doesn't matter, mine idles better (when idle is better); doesn't matter at all (when the product just sucks)
NV : Doesn't matter, I want POWER (when less efficient); Doesn't matter, mine idles better (when idle is better); doesn't matter at all (when the product just sucks)

-Drivers
AMD : AMD drivers are way better, I/or a friend used to have a NV machine that crashed all the time and sucked. This means AMD is much better.
NV : NV drivers are way better, I/or a friend used to have a AMD machine that crashed all the time and sucked. This means NV is much better. Also, read about all the bad AMD drivers from 10 years ago! That's obviously the same as now...

-Multi-GPU
AMD : These cherry-picked titles have WAY better scaling and driver support. I guess I am just lucky that I only like games that work well on AMD...
NV : These cherry-picked titles have WAY better scaling and driver support. I guess I am just lucky that I only like games that work well on NV...

There, that takes care of a good few hundred threads we could all waste our time posting in.

Hahaha well played

 

[Smartazz]

So excited to get my 7950 tomorrow. The game bundle finally pushed me to replace my 6870. Gotta say, $270 for a good 7950 with 3 free games is a great deal.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Got my 7970... Having a hard time adjusting to AMD. The problem is I knew the nVidia settings like the back of my hand... I don't quite understand some of the ATI options. Kinda of frustrating. But I'll figure it out, I guess.

 

[Smartazz]

Got my 7970... Having a hard time adjusting to AMD. The problem is I knew the nVidia settings like the back of my hand... I don't quite understand some of the ATI options. Kinda of frustrating. But I'll figure it out, I guess.

I was the same way. This 6870 was my first AMD card.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Got my 7970... Having a hard time adjusting to AMD. The problem is I knew the nVidia settings like the back of my hand... I don't quite understand some of the ATI options. Kinda of frustrating. But I'll figure it out, I guess.

Just make sure you enable the enhanced options in CCC. I remember the first year I owned my 5870 I was confused because there were so few options in the driver software.

 

[Phynaz]

Do you mean advanced view?

 

[NTMBK]

All the following threads have been and will be destroyed by fanbois on one side or the other:

Compute
AMD : It's ESSENTIAL (circa 2010-2012); It's stupid (circa 2007-2009)
NV : It's stupid (circa 2012); It's essential (before 2012)

3D
NV : It's great! Immersive
AMD : It's only in a few crappy games and sucks

Multi-Monitor Gaming
AMD : We have had it for years and it used to be great
NV : It sucked back then and only NV games work on it...

Gaming (In-general)
NV : These cherry-picked titles are all that matters; just so happens NV crushes in benches for them.
AMD : These cherry-picked titles are all that matters; just so happens AMD crushes in benches for them.

Power consumption:
AMD : Doesn't matter, I want POWER (when less efficient); Doesn't matter, mine idles better (when idle is better); doesn't matter at all (when the product just sucks)
NV : Doesn't matter, I want POWER (when less efficient); Doesn't matter, mine idles better (when idle is better); doesn't matter at all (when the product just sucks)

-Drivers
AMD : AMD drivers are way better, I/or a friend used to have a NV machine that crashed all the time and sucked. This means AMD is much better.
NV : NV drivers are way better, I/or a friend used to have a AMD machine that crashed all the time and sucked. This means NV is much better. Also, read about all the bad AMD drivers from 10 years ago! That's obviously the same as now...

-Multi-GPU
AMD : These cherry-picked titles have WAY better scaling and driver support. I guess I am just lucky that I only like games that work well on AMD...
NV : These cherry-picked titles have WAY better scaling and driver support. I guess I am just lucky that I only like games that work well on NV...

There, that takes care of a good few hundred threads we could all waste our time posting in.

Can we get this pinned on the front page of the forum please?

 

[Keysplayr]

Yeah I'm keeping this in my cut and paste collection. Should come in handy in dousing sparks that might otherwise burst into flames.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Do Anantech forums ever "clean" a forum to remove off-topic etc. posts that are not related to the subject at hand? I could see keeping some of the interesting arguments between different forum members, but it seems to distract from the ability to visit the thread and get information about the original post?

A quiet idiot looks like a person.

Let them talk and everyone can see they are idiots.

 

[Quantos]

Isn't it common sense, though? Do we really need a chart to get people to understand the simple logic that it's night black vs. white all the time (or green vs. red you might say)? There's no one size fits all scenario that confirms or infirms that NV or AMD is definitely the best. Heck, there is no "best" at all; it always depends what people want to do with their computer, and what are their priorities. These priorities are not set in stone, and neither are the products.

The current discussion does go further than just arguing about the products, though. That, in itself, could be done in a mature way. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but what I can say is that people in general should stop being so volatile. This is the internet; you cannot assume that the person you are having a discussion with is a rational, intelligent being. People do troll, and people do have irrational allegiances. Sometimes, concluding a person cannot be reasoned and calling it quits is the most reasonable thing to do.

That said, I know some people have been pointed out as "shills", and I can understand that one would be insulted by such an accusation. Unfounded accusations definitely are not reasonable, and should be substantiated, if proof does exist.

 

[SirPauly]

There's no one size fits all scenario that confirms or infirms that NV or AMD is definitely the best. Heck, there is no "best" at all; it always depends what people want to do with their computer, and what are their priorities. These priorities are not set in stone, and neither are the products.

Indeed! The key is to have choice so consumers may find what best fits their subjective tastes and tolerances. If it is an AMD product? Great! If it is a nVidia product? Great!

 

[railven]

All the following threads have been and will be destroyed by fanbois on one side or the other:

Compute
AMD : It's ESSENTIAL (circa 2010-2012); It's stupid (circa 2007-2009)
NV : It's stupid (circa 2012); It's essential (before 2012)

3D
NV : It's great! Immersive
AMD : It's only in a few crappy games and sucks

Multi-Monitor Gaming
AMD : We have had it for years and it used to be great
NV : It sucked back then and only NV games work on it...

Gaming (In-general)
NV : These cherry-picked titles are all that matters; just so happens NV crushes in benches for them.
AMD : These cherry-picked titles are all that matters; just so happens AMD crushes in benches for them.

Power consumption:
AMD : Doesn't matter, I want POWER (when less efficient); Doesn't matter, mine idles better (when idle is better); doesn't matter at all (when the product just sucks)
NV : Doesn't matter, I want POWER (when less efficient); Doesn't matter, mine idles better (when idle is better); doesn't matter at all (when the product just sucks)

-Drivers
AMD : AMD drivers are way better, I/or a friend used to have a NV machine that crashed all the time and sucked. This means AMD is much better.
NV : NV drivers are way better, I/or a friend used to have a AMD machine that crashed all the time and sucked. This means NV is much better. Also, read about all the bad AMD drivers from 10 years ago! That's obviously the same as now...

-Multi-GPU
AMD : These cherry-picked titles have WAY better scaling and driver support. I guess I am just lucky that I only like games that work well on AMD...
NV : These cherry-picked titles have WAY better scaling and driver support. I guess I am just lucky that I only like games that work well on NV...

There, that takes care of a good few hundred threads we could all waste our time posting in.

Too long for a signature, I tried.

 

[The Alias]

Isn't it common sense, though? Do we really need a chart to get people to understand the simple logic that it's night black vs. white all the time (or green vs. red you might say)? There's no one size fits all scenario that confirms or infirms that NV or AMD is definitely the best. Heck, there is no "best" at all; it always depends what people want to do with their computer, and what are their priorities. These priorities are not set in stone, and neither are the products.
.

thing is that was the case before 12.11 now with 12.11 amd has eaten alot of the main reasons you'd go for a nvidia gpu (bf3, wow, etc ) so now it's like why would you go for a nvidia gpu when amd outperforms nvidia in the vast majority of games at stock and if not stock they'll come damn close or beat nv when it's oc vs oc . Not to mention the absolutely GREAT deal of three free games plus 20% moh:w for the 79xx series makes it even slanted towards AMD

To be honest I would have agreed with you, but 12.11 +the three for free deal makes it really hard to recommend nv unless the customer is bent on physX, cuda, or 3d .

 

[Jaydip]

Too long for a signature, I tried.

I loled :biggrin:

 

[railven]

I loled :biggrin:

Then I did my job! :thumbsup:

On topic, last night while doing some LFR Goodness I really noticed the 12.11 improvement for le WoWz.

Any WoW player using a Radeon should definitely install these drivers. 25 man clusterfork with spells and noobs galore, never dipped below 50 FPS.

1080P @ Ultra (Shadows too) w/8xAA/16xAF system (Me) in sig.

 

[SirPauly]

The key is companies do 180's and, at times, so do some of their fans and part of forum lore but what is refreshing is strong convictions and consistency on forums.

Personally embrace the chaos because it translates into companies bringing strong choice and competition. It's all good!

 

[exar333]

Then I did my job! :thumbsup:

On topic, last night while doing some LFR Goodness I really noticed the 12.11 improvement for le WoWz.

Any WoW player using a Radeon should definitely install these drivers. 25 man clusterfork with spells and noobs galore, never dipped below 50 FPS.

1080P @ Ultra (Shadows too) w/8xAA/16xAF system (Me) in sig.

:thumbsup:

Tough to beat free performance improvements.

 

[Arkaign]

thing is that was the case before 12.11 now with 12.11 amd has eaten alot of the main reasons you'd go for a nvidia gpu (bf3, wow, etc ) so now it's like why would you go for a nvidia gpu when amd outperforms nvidia in the vast majority of games at stock and if not stock they'll come damn close or beat nv when it's oc vs oc . Not to mention the absolutely GREAT deal of three free games plus 20% moh:w for the 79xx series makes it even slanted towards AMD

To be honest I would have agreed with you, but 12.11 +the three for free deal makes it really hard to recommend nv unless the customer is bent on physX, cuda, or 3d .

I agree with this.

When 670/680 launched, and were hands-down faster than 7950/7970 for less money, there was no reason to buy 7950/7970.

Really the price drops and higher-clocked versions of 79xx changed that, and I started recommending them again instead of 670/680. Now with this new driver and current prices, it's really hard to recommend current Nvidia SKUs at all. I do hope they respond though, win/win for everyone if they do.

I love my 670FTW, best card I've ever had bar none, but I have to give credit where credit is due.

Burn in hell fanboys! Long live logic!

 

[Quantos]

thing is that was the case before 12.11 now with 12.11 amd has eaten alot of the main reasons you'd go for a nvidia gpu (bf3, wow, etc ) so now it's like why would you go for a nvidia gpu when amd outperforms nvidia in the vast majority of games at stock and if not stock they'll come damn close or beat nv when it's oc vs oc . Not to mention the absolutely GREAT deal of three free games plus 20% moh:w for the 79xx series makes it even slanted towards AMD

To be honest I would have agreed with you, but 12.11 +the three for free deal makes it really hard to recommend nv unless the customer is bent on physX, cuda, or 3d .

Oh, I absolutely agree; right now if I needed to buy a card, I'd probably go for the 7970, it's a really good deal. However, I'm quite content with my 670, which was a very nice purchase and deal when I bought it. The thing is, that's kind of the point. It depends when you buy the product. For all we know, NV might release a driver tomorrow that will flip the balance in their favor. These are the kind of things that reasonable people will look out for before buying a product.

"Which product is the best for me TODAY (or whenever I want to buy it)?"

[rant] The thing is that, the "for me" part of this question leaves quite a bit of leeway for clowns and trolls to be entirely not objective about their purchase. We start having issues whenever they come along and spread their arguments which sometimes account to little more than "I buy green/red because I buy green/red". They're entirely right to have their favorite brand, but the problem is that nobody should try to convince others to buy one of them for the sole reason they do. [/rant]

 

[ArchAngel777]

Getting more and more comfortable with my new AMD 7970. Clocks are stable at 1150/1500. Definitely feeling the performance increase, even though I had absolutely no need for it. What I really feel, is a lot less heat getting dumped into my room. But it is getting colder now as winter approaches... So maybe the heat was welcome.

Does anyone know how the AA settings work? For instance, there is a slider near the bottom for MSAA, Adapative AA and then SSAA. Well, I know what MSAA is. But are these talking about transperancy textures? Because from what I read, Adapative AA is a mixture of both. I believe MSAA on polygons or what not and SSAA on the alpha textures and SSAA would be full screen anti-aliasing....

I guess what I am really looking for is a website that has tested these modes and can report the performance impact of each of them.

For instance, with nVidia would commonly apply MSAA 4x and then go to transparency anti-aliasing and set it for super sampling 4x4. This produce a pretty good picture overall for the performance impact. What is the sweet spot for ATI? I am HUGE on aliasing out those alpha textures.

 

[sze5003]

All I know is msaa is screwed up in battlefield 3 single player if you use ultra settings. I leave the application decide haven't changed anything in CCC

 

[Jaydip]

Getting more and more comfortable with my new AMD 7970. Clocks are stable at 1150/1500. Definitely feeling the performance increase, even though I had absolutely no need for it. What I really feel, is a lot less heat getting dumped into my room. But it is getting colder now as winter approaches... So maybe the heat was welcome.

Does anyone know how the AA settings work? For instance, there is a slider near the bottom for MSAA, Adapative AA and then SSAA. Well, I know what MSAA is. But are these talking about transperancy textures? Because from what I read, Adapative AA is a mixture of both. I believe MSAA on polygons or what not and SSAA on the alpha textures and SSAA would be full screen anti-aliasing....

I guess what I am really looking for is a website that has tested these modes and can report the performance impact of each of them.

For instance, with nVidia would commonly apply MSAA 4x and then go to transparency anti-aliasing and set it for super sampling 4x4. This produce a pretty good picture overall for the performance impact. What is the sweet spot for ATI? I am HUGE on aliasing out those alpha textures.

It should be MSAA+Adaptive AA+EQAA+CFAA(if SSAA is too costly.These options won't be cheap either)

I am no expert on ati cards but it should work.