AMD Naples information

[dawgmatix]

With zen nearly out, time to discuss / speculate Naples. Some questions I have at the moment are -

a. Will be see Naples in a quad socket motherboard configuration
b. Clock speeds for the 32 core variant
c. Release timeframes
d. Will it be generally available in the channel early on or will we only be able to buy OEM systems

 

[Greyguy1948]

It looks like they will be using the same sockets C32 and G34. It is too late for anything else now.
It will be exciting to see any results on SPEC. Opteron is now far from the top on SPEC int or SPEC fp.

 

[bjt2]

Naples supports DDR3? Otherwise I think there will be problems with C32 or G34 socket...

 

[Greyguy1948]

I have not found out what the AMD memory controler can do.
Some of the new Core i from Intel can run with DDR3L or DDR4. All mobos have not DDR4.
Most likely it is in spec to control both!

 

[SarahKerrigan]

It looks like they will be using the same sockets C32 and G34. It is too late for anything else now.
It will be exciting to see any results on SPEC. Opteron is now far from the top on SPEC int or SPEC fp.

Naples isn't C32/G34, lol. Among other things, it has an 8-channel memory controller (or, more precisely, four dual-channel memory controllers). It's a new socket.

I'd expect, based on some back-of-an-envelope math, that Naples will be 900-1100 on int_rate, assuming ~2GHz clocks. I'm not convinced anybody actually cares about specfp, so i'm not going to bother with that part.

 

[Greyguy1948]

Naples isn't C32/G34, lol. Among other things, it has an 8-channel memory controller (or, more precisely, four dual-channel memory controllers). It's a new socket.

I'd expect, based on some back-of-an-envelope math, that Naples will be 900-1100 on int_rate, assuming ~2GHz clocks. I'm not convinced anybody actually cares about specfp, so i'm not going to bother with that part.

Very interesting!
I am a bit surprised I have not found any info about this new socket. The info about AM4 has been out for a long time!
Is 2017 realistic or is 2018 more likely for Naples?

 

[raghu78]

Naples is launching in Q2 2017 (i would guess June). All new SP3 socket. 4 dies in MCM configuration. 8 channel DDR4 memory controller (4 dies x dual channel). Dual socket servers. There is no quad socket design as AMD chose to go with MCM with 4 small dies for a single CPU. So Naples scales to 2 x 32C/64T = 64C/128T. Since we are seeing 3.0 Ghz base on 8C/16T at 65w i think at 2.6 Ghz AMD could get the TDP down to 45w. Four of these will be Naples's top SKU

 

[daxzy]

4-socket and beyond servers are becoming increasingly niche and the R&D ROI is small compared to 2-socket. The mentality of "let's have everything on one server" has been replaced with the cluster. IIRC, 1 and 2 socket servers are > 95% total market share.

 

[dark zero]

Very interesting!
I am a bit surprised I have not found any info about this new socket. The info about AM4 has been out for a long time!
Is 2017 realistic or is 2018 more likely for Naples?

2017 for the 16 core variant it seems and even the current octacore could be used right now for the mid tier servers. 32 one for 2018.

 

[Greyguy1948]

Naples isn't C32/G34, lol.
Among other thing I'd expect, based on some back-of-an-envelope math, that Naples will be 900-1100 on int_rate, assuming ~2GHz clocks. I'm not convinced anybody actually cares about specfp, so i'm not going to bother with that part.

64 core Opterons are around 800. You mean 32C/64T or ?

 

[SarahKerrigan]

64 core Opterons are around 800. You mean 32C/64T or ?

Yep. 900+ would put it up with Broadwell-EX and IBM Venice, which I think is reasonable given the core count. A more useful number would probably be 403.gcc 64-copy rate on its own, but I'd have to think about that one.

 

[dawgmatix]

Naples is launching in Q2 2017 (i would guess June). All new SP3 socket. 4 dies in MCM configuration. 8 channel DDR4 memory controller (4 dies x dual channel). Dual socket servers. There is no quad socket design as AMD chose to go with MCM with 4 small dies for a single CPU. So Naples scales to 2 x 32C/64T = 64C/128T. Since we are seeing 3.0 Ghz base on 8C/16T at 65w i think at 2.6 Ghz AMD could get the TDP down to 45w. Four of these will be Naples's top SKU

Excellent - this answers most of what I needed to know.

 

[dark zero]

Naples is launching in Q2 2017 (i would guess June). All new SP3 socket. 4 dies in MCM configuration. 8 channel DDR4 memory controller (4 dies x dual channel). Dual socket servers. There is no quad socket design as AMD chose to go with MCM with 4 small dies for a single CPU. So Naples scales to 2 x 32C/64T = 64C/128T. Since we are seeing 3.0 Ghz base on 8C/16T at 65w i think at 2.6 Ghz AMD could get the TDP down to 45w. Four of these will be Naples's top SKU

Time to massive downclock the Ryzen when we have it in order to check power comsuption.

 

[Atari2600]

Naples is launching in Q2 2017 (i would guess June). All new SP3 socket. 4 dies in MCM configuration. 8 channel DDR4 memory controller (4 dies x dual channel). Dual socket servers. There is no quad socket design as AMD chose to go with MCM with 4 small dies for a single CPU. So Naples scales to 2 x 32C/64T = 64C/128T. Since we are seeing 3.0 Ghz base on 8C/16T at 65w i think at 2.6 Ghz AMD could get the TDP down to 45w. Four of these will be Naples's top SKU

32C64T per socket.... crazy.

Because we can't estimate the clock speed that would be needed to pull a 8C16T die down to 35W TDP per die, we can consider the 16C option.

The 2xdies which would give 16C32T --- well we know that the Ryzen 1700 runs at 3.0Ghz/3.7Ghz at 65W.... so doubling that up gives 16C32T @ 130W TDP.

For context, some of intel's alternatives:

[1]Xeon E5-4669 v4 --- 22C44T --- 2.2GHz/3.0GHz --- 135W TDP --- $7000 per CPU.

[2]Zeon E5-4660V4 --- 16C32T --- 2.20GHz/3.0GHz --- 120W TDP --- $4700 per CPU.

So the base frequency of the Zen Opteron 16C would ~ equate to the best turbo of the Xeon 4660!

AMD are selling 2x 1700 Zen dies for $660 to the HEDT space - so they could multiply that by 5 and still handsomely undercut the counterpart Xeon while surely offering better performance everywhere bar possibly the x86 HPC workstation space.





[1]https://ark.intel.com/products/93805/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-4669-v4-55M-Cache-2_20-GHz
[2]https://ark.intel.com/products/93796/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-4660-v4-40M-Cache-2_20-GHz

 

[lolfail9001]

Because we can't estimate the clock speed that would be needed to pull a 8C16T die down to 35W TDP per die, we can consider the 16C option.

Was not Naples rumored to be 180W per socket? That makes it a 45W per die, and from very rough estimation (3*(45/65)) 2.1Ghz base clock makes the cut. For comparison, that should be just about where base clock of 32C Skylake-EP be, maybe a smidge higher.

AMD are selling 2x 1700 Zen dies for $660 to the HEDT space - so they could multiply that by 5 and still handsomely undercut the counterpart Xeon

The counterpart Xeons you are talking about are quad socket, there is no info on whether Naples even supports quad socket config, because AMD positions it against dual socket Skylake-EP.

 

[Atari2600]

The counterpart Xeons you are talking about are quad socket, there is no info on whether Naples even supports quad socket config, because AMD positions it against dual socket Skylake-EP.

I know. Find an Xeon alternative to the E5 with more than 4 cores!!

https://ark.intel.com/products/family/88210/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-v5-Family#@Server

https://ark.intel.com/products/family/87722/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-v4-Family#@Server


If Intel don't sell it - I can't buy it - which means their 4 socket solution is going to have to compete in the 2 socket market!



edit: Ah, found one that is very comparable (no thanks to Intel's daft naming convention):

Xeon E5-2697AV4 --- 16C32T ---2.60Hz/3.60GHz --- 145W TDP --- $2900 per CPU.

https://ark.intel.com/products/91768/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2697A-v4-40M-Cache-2_60-GHz


So AMD could price up their 16C Zen Opteron by just under 5x and offer comparable/better performance in non AVX512 workloads to the Xeon line.

 

[JoeRambo]

I know. Find an Xeon alternative to the E5 with more than 4 cores!!

https://ark.intel.com/products/family/88210/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-v5-Family#@Server

https://ark.intel.com/products/family/87722/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-v4-Family#@Server


If Intel don't sell it - I can't buy it - which means their 4 socket solution is going to have to compete in the 2 socket market!

E5-2690 v4 is bread and butter, has 14 core and costs $2090. 2.6-3.5 Ghz stuff at 135w


And ofc Intel is coming out with Skylake server CPUs with increased core counts and reworked cache architecture.

+ lets wait for actual reviews of AMD server stuff. Intel's multi ring architecture is a known quantity, unlike AMD buzzwords.

 

[lolfail9001]

I know. Find an Xeon alternative to the E5 with more than 4 cores!!

Dual socket E5? These are like the most mainstream server chips on the market, it's a shame to not even look at them.

https://ark.intel.com/products/91768/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2697A-v4-40M-Cache-2_60-GHz

https://ark.intel.com/products/91766/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2683-v4-40M-Cache-2_10-GHz

For example.

 

[Atari2600]

Was not Naples rumored to be 180W per socket?

Dunno.

We'd also have to make some allowance for all the extra data handling logic that would surely need to be active (relative to the AM4 Ryzen).