AMD launches Ryzen Mobile 7 2700U & 5 2500U with Vega Graphics

[coercitiv]

Told yall couldn't compare laptops with different screens like that.

In theory you can't compare different platforms at all if you don't know what you're doing. For example, connecting an external monitor on my Haswell ultrabook would result in my CPU package not entering C7 sleep state anymore, effectively increasing power usage by 2-3W in idle.

It becomes downright comical if you start reading the TR review material and go back to read their other articles. For example read this about their Acer Swift 3 w/ 8250U and MX150 unit:

The Acer Swift 3 I got from Intel appears to have been a test mule at some point in its life. HWiNFO64 reports that the Swift 3 has already lost 10% of its battery capacity, from 50.7 Wh when it was new to 45.7 Wh now.

then contemplate what that means for the graph and the reasoning bellow:

For our two Swift 3s with IGPs alone, battery life with Browserbench is practically identical—within 2%, generation-to-generation. That's encouraging performance, given the i5-8250U's two extra cores versus the i5-7200U. The MX150-equipped Swift 3 didn't keep up with either of those machines in the battery life department, though. It conked out an hour earlier than the IGP-equipped notebooks. Even with Nvidia's power-saving Optimus technology, the discrete graphics chip in the MX150-equipped Swift 3 still has a power cost when the laptop is away from a wall and in light use.

Well, turns out their MX150 laptop had a degraded battery, so at this moment TR has no idea whether Optimus has a real detrimental effect on battery life when iGPU is in use.

This why more seasoned laptop reviewers do a thorough job and measure both power usage and battery life under different scenarios:

Spoiler: Swift 3 power usage

The moment TR observed considerably lower battery life in their Ryzen APU tests than HP stated in their specs was the moment they should have started measuring power usage with more adequate methodology or at least get in touch with HP/AMD and try to replicate their results. It could be that the Ryzen APU is indeed considerably inferior in terms of power usage than Intel's counterpart (I didn't expect it to be better anyway) but I'd rather wait for a proper review, with proper power draw data, before I draw a conclusion.

Meanwhile, objecting to using different products to compare competing platforms is the least of our worries when reviewers make up methodology from one test to another.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Well, turns out their MX150 laptop had a degraded battery, so at this moment TR has no idea whether Optimus has a real detrimental effect on battery life when iGPU is in use.

I've read few reviews on Notebookcheck, and MX150 laptops generally have lower battery life than ones that don't.

You have a point, but Hothardware has an updated review with an SSD. The HDD setup does about 10 minute better.

In theory you can't compare different platforms at all if you don't know what you're doing

It'll be very difficult to normalize like you do with desktops. Say you get an HP Intel system, configured exactly the same. But maybe because HP systems suck with fine grained power management, that's why it happens to suck. That means you'll penalize the system that requires that kind of work to make it shine. Smartphones and Tablets have an advantage because they use proprietary systems and the whole system goes through extensive checks to make sure the battery life is up to par. It's the whole argument for Apple is going fully vertically integrated.

The only way to really do it is have different laptops from different manufacturers and in average you get to see which platform is better.

 

[coercitiv]

You have a point, but Hothardware has an updated review with an SSD. The HDD setup does about 10 minute better.

This is how they made the upgrade.

Take note that we actually mirrored the hard drive volume image over to the SSD so we had an identical OS installation. The only difference is that we installed the Samsung NVMe driver to for use with the Samsung SSD in its series of tests.

When asked whether SSD DIPM was properly setup they had this to answer in the comments.

No idea. Left it on whatever the OS image had from HP. Will check it.

The OS image that was configured for SATA HDD usage. Was DIPM active? We'll find out after the reviewer checks the OS config.

Can the 960 Evo end up using more power than a laptop class HDD? Sure it can, it uses 1.2W in active idle when a frugal HDD can go down to 600mW. Can the same 960 Evo use less power than a frugal HDD? Sure it can, it will go down to 110mW when properly configured.

Anyway, in the end I can rant about these details as much as I want to, it doesn't change the fact that AMD marketing should have done more to ensure proper testing material for reviewers. They are the underdogs, they should go the extra mile.

 

[krumme]

I was debating with a user that is adamant about the contemporary Battlefield series. The user, krumme, posted a video showing AMD Ryzen 5 2500U (15 W) performance in Battlefield 1. I made my comments, krumme made its comments, and the discussion came to a close.
Another user, USER8000, revived that branch by replying to a comment I made. I repeated the same points I made earlier.

I never shamed AMD Raven Ridge in other specific titles.

Well the debate started with bf4. And it turns out it can do that fine 60fps perhaps even medium 720 there. It was a remark to your 30fps on bf4. You were just wrong. It gpes fine.

But hey frame it like you will but i am pretty sure you were surprised how fast it is. So you learned something new. Great. No need to go into defensive mode.
A lot of people play bf3 and bf4 on 2 core hd620 machines. Like it or not. This is a monster 130% upgrade for this aswell as other gaming eg overwatch comming from those 2c hd620.

 

[Abwx]

NBC Envy-x360 review...

https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-En...00U-Radeon-Vega-8-Laptop-Review.266614.0.html

 

[Qwertilot]

Not the worlds best laptop it seems

 

[krumme]

Not the worlds best laptop it seems

Bad stuff with a hdd to boot. A hdd ..lol
Add bad software and it just ... well very bad. So amd ask for trouble and it can only go one way.

Now its also next to impossible to get a good review on notebookcheck for them anyway and they probably knew that and there is tons of fishy comments in this review. Like the praise of iris gpu for actual game performance vs r5 beeing good at synthetic. Its about the most idiotic i have ever read unless intel driver suddenly magically improved for games the last week. And what about his comment in regards to the hdd comparing it to "Atom". Well then it probably cant get more dirty.

If amd dont market this product and use decent machines for it what they get is so to speak indirectly Intel and nvidia funding their launch. I dont think that was their intention but its the result. Its pretty costly to be bad at marketing. The worst money you can save. But i guess amd thinks it better to eg adress 20 professional segments in gpu market than build a really high perf marketing team.

 

[raghu78]

First impressions of Raven Ridge is the paltform is not mature and ready yet. I think we will see a better picture emerge in Q1 2018 after CES when a wider range of notebooks launch. Hopefully AMD can iron out the issues related to stability and power consumption. I think BIOS and driver updates are needed for RR to put its best foot forward. The HP Envy x360 is just a poor design and a bad device. I am looking forward to the Acer Swift 3 with 2700u and a 25w chassis. btw why is AMD so pathetic when it comes to sales & marketing ? They cannot even get the OEM partners to send out a decent quality notebook with SSD for reviews. AMD has to go a long way before they can be respected from a business stand point.

 

[PhonakV30]

Shame

HP has surreptitiously swapped out the Intel 8265 module found on the Intel variant of the Envy x360 15 for the slower RealTek B822 WLAN module for the AMD variant. Real-world transfer rates when standing one meter from our Linksys EA8500 test router is only about 473 Mbps compared to 600+ Mbps from the more common Intel 8265 or Killer 1535 alternatives.
.

 

[Abwx]

Not the worlds best laptop it seems

Price
630 USD

Better CPU and iGPU perfs than anything Intel in this TDP class, the HDD can be swapped later at acceptable price...

Also :

Graphics adapter
AMD Radeon RX Vega 8 - 256 MB, Core: 300 MHz, Memory: 400 MHz, DDR4, 22.19.655.0

https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/HP/Envy_x360_15m-bq1xx/hwinfo1.png

??

 

[Dayman1225]

Price
630 USD

Better CPU and iGPU perfs than anything Intel in this TDP class, the HDD can be swapped later at acceptable price...

I mean if you wanted you could grab this Acer Swfit 3 with a 8250u, MX150 and 256 GB SSD for $720.

 

[Abwx]

I mean if you wanted you could grab this Acer Swfit 3 with a 8250u, MX150 and 256 GB SSD for $720.

14" instead of a 15"6 and Acer instead of HP...?..

Anyway at this rate there was also some Ryzen Envy fire sold at 575$ in the US, but even more importantly the relevant competitor is this one :

https://www.amazon.com/Envy-Quad-8t...p_4:HP,p_n_feature_four_browse-bin:2289792011

 

[Dayman1225]

14" instead of a 15"6 and Acer instead of HP...?..

Anyway at this rate there was also some Ryzen Envy fire sold at 575$ in the US, but even more importantly the relevant competitor is this one :

https://www.amazon.com/Envy-Quad-8th-Gen-Convertible/dp/B076X6T1XP/ref=sr_1_17?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1512151909&sr=1-17&refinements=p_4:HP,p_n_feature_four_browse-bin:2289792011

So you talk about the cheapest version of the Ryzen Envy you could find then find me one of the most expensive configs you could find for the Intel one? Nice.

14" vs 15"6 sure. Better graphics and an SSD for $100 more? I'd take it and it offers better battery life!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Swift-3-SF315-8250U-MX150-FHD-Laptop-Review.258594.0.html

(Sadly they only tested wifi browsing it seems)

 

[Dayman1225]

https://techreport.com/news/32912/amd-confirms-that-the-hp-envy-x360-uses-mobile-xfr

 

[Abwx]

So you talk about the cheapest version of the Ryzen Envy you could find then find me one of the most expensive configs you could find for the Intel one? Nice.

14" vs 15"6 sure. Better graphics and an SSD for $100 more? I'd take it and it offers better battery life!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Swift-3-SF315-8250U-MX150-FHD-Laptop-Review.258594.0.html

(Sadly they only tested wifi browsing it seems)

You d take it, with only 8GB soldered and no memory slot available..? Sure.?...


Btw, the Ryzen Envy is also sold with an SSD by HP, i dont think that adding 8GB RAM wil get you close to the 8550U version because this latter APU is sold at higher price than the 2500U, its competitor is the 2700U but the former is already better.

As for battery life that s a matter of drivers and firmware update, i gave the exemple of Stoney Ridge wich has the same UVD as Ryzen but at 28nm, yet its 5h videoplay autonomy is as good despite a paltry 35W/h battery, to compare with the Envy s 55W/h...

 

[Abwx]

https://techreport.com/news/32912/amd-confirms-that-the-hp-envy-x360-uses-mobile-xfr

TR are quite cluless about actual power drain of the U8XXX of all kind, if AMD use up to 25W KBL U series are set up to 51W for 10s, 44W for 28s or 32W for a longer duration FI, there s even less miracles on the competing side...

https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/e/6/csm_stresscpu40_5ba8936ab2.png

https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Xiaomi/Mi_Notebook_Pro_i5/xtu_basesettings.JPG

https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Lenovo/Yoga_920-13IKB-80Y7/stress_prime2.PNG

That s three different laptops, notice the official "15W TDP", lol....

 

[Phynaz]

https://techreport.com/news/32912/amd-confirms-that-the-hp-envy-x360-uses-mobile-xfr

Oh, so it's not a 15w CPU, it's 25w.

 

[Phynaz]

TR are quite cluless about actual power drain of the U8XXX of all kind, if AMD use up to 25W KBL U series are set up to 51W for 10s, 44W for 28s or 32W for a longer duration FI, there s even less miracles on the competing side...

https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/e/6/csm_stresscpu40_5ba8936ab2.png

https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Xiaomi/Mi_Notebook_Pro_i5/xtu_basesettings.JPG

https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Lenovo/Yoga_920-13IKB-80Y7/stress_prime2.PNG

That s three different laptops, notice the official "15W TDP", lol....

You appear to to be ignorant about the difference between peak and sustained power consumption.

That, or you willfully refuse to accept that AMD mislead you on the power consumption of their CPU's - again.

 

[jpiniero]

Oh, so it's not a 15w CPU, it's 25w.

It's cTDP'd up, which is perfectly fine. This Dell I suspect with the 8550U is set to 25W:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-13-i7-8550U-QHD-Laptop-Review.257650.0.html

 

[Phynaz]

It's cTDP'd up, which is perfectly fine. This Dell I suspect with the 8550U is set to 25W:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-13-i7-8550U-QHD-Laptop-Review.257650.0.html

1. No, it's a 25w CPU. Read the article.
2. Any proof of what you suspect?
3. Who cares? The conversation is about the HP Envy.

AMD got in touch this morning regarding our results and officially confirmed that the Ryzen 5 2500U inside the Envy x360 we tested uses Mobile XFR, which is to say that it has a 25W TDP instead of the 15W envelope that was widely reported ahead of the system's arrival on the market.

 

[Bouowmx]

I thought Mobile XFR would be an good opportunity for AMD to assist consumers in easily picking out TDP-up computers. Is there a reason to hide the certification?

 

[Phynaz]

AMD has a long history of flat out lying about the power consumption of their CPU's. To the point that MSI even called them out on it.





Inflammatory posting.


esquared
Anandtech forum Director

 

[Phynaz]

Notebookcheck:

On paper, the 25 W cTDP Ryzen 5 2500U APU and RX Vega 8 GPU are able to stand neck-to-neck with current 15 W Kaby Lake-R

70% higher TDP for the AMD part.

 

[raghu78]

AMD has a long history of flat out lying about the power consumption of their CPU's. To point that MSI even called them out on it.

And Intel doesn't ? Stop being delusional.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1155...-core-i9-7900x-i7-7820x-and-i7-7800x-tested/8

7900X 140w tdp . Power draw measured 149w.

 

[The Stilt]

AMD has a long history of flat out lying about the power consumption of their CPU's. To point that MSI even called them out on it.

I've measured the power consumption of all CPUs AMD has released since Phenom, and none of the production parts have ever violated any of the specs.
Sometimes the specs / marketing is rather vague, since e.g. with FP4/FP5 mobile parts the maximum power consumption (which can be sustained for an electrically / thermally significant time period) is not clearly stated.
At least I haven't found any public release stating that 15W FP4/FP5 parts actually boost to 25W (or 12W to 20W, 25W to 42W and 35W to 42W), until the thermal conditions (ODM programmable) prevent doing so.