AMD @ GDC: Partnership with MS next-generation graphics.

[monstercameron]

As far as I know, DX has never been vendor specific. He doesn't have to have "insider information" to assume DX12 is not vendor specific.

You ask for proof of the most ridiculous things...

has it been architecture specific a few times? or was that artificial segmentation?

 

[frozentundra123456]

The point was that he has no proof that mantle will stay vendor specific, and he knows nothing about dx12 because nothing has been released yet.

There is no proof that it will *not* stay vendor specific either. Basically I would assume that it will be vendor specific until I see proof that it will work as well on other architectures as it does on GCN.

Heck, right now it is not only vendor specific, it is GCN specific, and I am not sure it is even working on anything but GCN 1.1.

 

[parvadomus]

Link I wonder what trolls will say if this is true :sneaky:

Infraction issued for inflammatory language.
-- stahlhart

 

[Gloomy]

Link I wonder what trolls will say if this is true :sneaky:

gg no re

 

[f1sherman]

gg no re

well I would, but there is nothing to RE

"Full article access is for subscribers only[...]"


sadly I don't know anyone rich enough to spend $$ on humorous blogs subscriptions

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Link I wonder what trolls will say if this is true :sneaky:

Infraction issued for inflammatory language.
-- stahlhart

If its true then current radeons will support it making you suicidal to buy anything nvidia until next generation.

 

[el etro]

Charlie can be trolling ShintaiDK.

Its a valid hypothesis.

Warning issued for callout.
-- stahlhart

 

[Gloomy]

How often is Charlie right anyway? Refresh my memory.

 

[ViRGE]

How often is Charlie right anyway? Refresh my memory.

Rarely. He has a tendency to hit the little things, but miss the big things. Still, we'll know for sure on Thursday.

 

[f1sherman]

How often is Charlie right anyway? Refresh my memory.

One of his latest Nvidia epitaphs says:

"Dire is barely adequate to describe their (Nvidia's) competitive situation for 2013 and 1H/2014"

Meanwhile NV stock is peeking as they defy PC market crisis, raking record GPU sales in all segments and carrying Tegra like it's nothing

 

[beginner99]

News Flash, the PC industry is shrinking. Even Intel are struggling to keep up sales of their CPU's.

The PC market isn't shrinking. New sales are shrinking because most people are still fine with a 2006 core2duo.

 

[HWfreak]

Umm what? PCs are cheaper than they've ever been. The reason why sales are down is because we're at the good enough era as far as performance is concerned. I'm still running my 2500k and see no need to upgrade. Tablets are soaring because they're the hottest new thing. I have bought 4 tablets in the last 3 years, and right now I'm really happy with the performance of my N7 2013. We are Soon approaching good enough performance and I would not be surprised to see sales stagnate.

Thats a good CPU, how much did it cost you? how much does an i5 4670K cost today and how much performance gain do you get?

The answer to that is the reason your still using it, its the same reason i'm still using a Phenom II x6., no upgrade for us unless you and i spend $400 at least.

 

[HWfreak]

Link I wonder what trolls will say if this is true :sneaky:

"Microsoft adopts Mantle but calls it DX12"

We called it.

This is a good thing for everyone, it means Nvidia will get Mantle once DX12 arrives, and you wont be disappointed.

 

[3DVagabond]

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/p/directx12.aspx

also, it's in OP, 2nd link

Fair enough. We'll have to see exactly what their involvement is. I have a feeling it's going to be MS is leveraging Mantle and everyone else is invited along. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Keysplayr]

Fair enough. We'll have to see exactly what their involvement is. I have a feeling it's going to be MS is leveraging Mantle and everyone else is invited along. We'll have to wait and see.

I'm going to go out on a limb here by saying that Mantle will have a lot less to do with influencing DX12 than people are thinking here. It may have gotten Microsoft thinking, (and that is awesome) but in the end Mantle won't be around IMHO.

 

[3DVagabond]

I'm going to go out on a limb here by saying that Mantle will have a lot less to do with influencing DX12 than people are thinking here. It may have gotten Microsoft thinking, (and that is awesome) but in the end Mantle won't be around IMHO.

Only a day to wait and hopefully we'll have some more info. Maybe we'll find out who's gut is right?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Don't forget that Intel has about 60 pct of the graphics market. DX 12 may use some principles of mantle, but I can't see it being adopted to all 3 architectures (Intel, nvidia, and amd).

I don't see how this plays out well for amd either way. If mantle or something similar is adopted in DX 12, they lose their competitive advantage. If it isn't mantle remains only a value add to amd cards, and that will be reduced since DX 12 will be closer in performance.

Granted it will make their cpus more competitive, but in the only games so far, Intel still has the lead.

 

[HWfreak]

I'm going to go out on a limb here by saying that Mantle will have a lot less to do with influencing DX12 than people are thinking here. It may have gotten Microsoft thinking, (and that is awesome) but in the end Mantle won't be around IMHO.

AMD want Mantle to be mainstream, by mainstream i mean widely used and fully compatible with Nvidia and Intel, for AMD its not about getting one over on the competition, perhaps to their competitive detriment it never is, with the exception of 64Bit computing they have never made any of their technology proprietary. 3D Shadowing, Dynamic Global Illumination, TressFX and 'in development partnership with Hynix' GDDR5 to name a few; are shared with Nvidia.

The thing is right now the OGL PS4 is significantly more powerful than the DX11.2 XB1, people know this and its getting slaughtered in the sales by it.

Microsoft need to respond fast, and cheaply, AMD hold the key to that, which puts them in a dictatorial position, what AMD can say to Microsoft is "Mantle in DX12 in its entirety on the Desktop or your on your own"

Which isn't actually a bad thing for MS to go along with, that would create 100% parity with the XB1 and the Desktop, Developers will love that and for Microsoft it puts one over on the PS4 as it would be the odd one out in development terms. Win Win Win.

Incidentally DX11.2 (available in Win 8.1) was also developed in partnership with AMD for the GCN based XB1 with the understanding that it would be available on the Desktop.

 

[ShintaiDK]

AMD want Mantle to be mainstream, by mainstream i mean widely used and fully compatible with Nvidia and Intel, for AMD its not about getting one over on the competition, perhaps to their competitive detriment it never is, with the exception of 64Bit computing they have never made any of their technology proprietary. 3D Shadowing, Dynamic Global Illumination, TressFX and 'in development partnership with Hynix' GDDR5 to name a few; are shared with Nvidia.

The thing is right now the OGL PS4 is significantly more powerful than the DX11.2 XB1, people know this and its getting slaughtered in the sales by it.

Microsoft need to respond fast, and cheaply, AMD hold the key to that, which puts them in a dictatorial position, what AMD can say to Microsoft is "Mantle in DX12 in its entirety on the Desktop or your on your own"

Which isn't actually a bad thing for MS to go along with, that would create 100% parity with the XB1 and the Desktop, Developers will love that and for Microsoft it puts one over on the PS4 as it would be the odd one out in development terms. Win Win Win.

Incidentally DX11.2 (available in Win 8.1) was also developed in partnership with AMD for the GCN based XB1 with the understanding that it would be available on the Desktop.

AMD have done nothing to make Mantle mainstream. There are now 2 Mantle games, and it seems more like a per driver basis. And there is only 1 more Mantle game for the entire 2014 scheduled.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/mantle/Pages/mantle.aspx#2

DX12 as such got nothing to do with Mantle. Just as Mantle had nothing to do with consoles.

AMD was arrogant enough to claim there would be no DX12 a year ago.

All DX versions have been developed in partnerships with AMD, nVidia and Intel (And more.). Not one of them exclusively.

 

[norseamd]

AMD was arrogant enough to claim there would be no DX12 a year ago. In a hope everyone would jump on their wagon. It failed and backfired.

when was dx 12 ever being made until amd released mantle and the change of leadership at microsoft

 

[ShintaiDK]

when was dx 12 ever being made until amd released mantle and the change of leadership at microsoft

If you think DX12 was just a sudden move after Mantle, you are wrong.

Mantle however was prematurely released. I assume due to knowing DX12 would come.

The question begs if AMD actually got any meaningfuld R&D funding left to compete. GCN 1.1 offers close to nothing and Maxwell for example is way ahead. On the IGP front it looks just as bad against Intel. More or less a stagnant AMD against rapid moving competitors.

 

[HWfreak]

AMD have done nothing to make Mantle mainstream. There are now 2 Mantle games, and it seems more like a per driver basis. And there is only 1 more Mantle game for the entire 2014 scheduled.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/mantle/Pages/mantle.aspx#2

DX12 as such got nothing to do with Mantle. Just as Mantle had nothing to do with consoles.

AMD was arrogant enough to claim there would be no DX12 a year ago.

All DX versions have been developed in partnerships with AMD, nVidia and Intel (And more.). Not one of them exclusively.

Nvidia and Intel are involved in the process, of course they are, it needs to work on their GPU's. but there is a difference between "being involved in the process" and actually doing the development work.

DX11.2 was developed for the XB1 and if Microsoft had got their way thats where it would have stayed.

 

[ShintaiDK]

DX11.2 was developed for the XB1 and if Microsoft had got their way thats where it would have stayed.

Thats simply false.

Nvidia and Intel are involved in the process, of course they are, it needs to work on their GPU's. but there is a difference between "being involved in the process" and actually doing the development work.

I assume from your view, AMD does everything?

 

[HWfreak]

Thats simply false.

Your entitled to your opinion.

I assume from your view, AMD does everything?

No.

IMO your letting your assumptions drive your reactions.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Do AMD even support DX11.2 yet in their drivers? At the last check they didnt.