AMD Files Antitrust Complaint Against Intel in U.S. Federal District Court

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Never owned an AMD processor. Don't plan on it either.

i owned 2 and i wont own one ever again, the chips arent bad other then they run terrible hot but i have a problem with all the substandard motherboards everyone loves soo much. both amds that i have had i threw out as i had more problems then successes with.

You threw them out?!?!? Why didn't you put them up in FS/FT for the cost of shipping!

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: zendari
AMD should have started advertising long ago and increased capacity to feed places like dell.

I'm glad you're more knowledgable than AMD's executives. :roll:

AMD couldn't produce more chips because they couldn't sell them. What happens when they build excess capacity for a business that's then strong-armed by Intel to stop selling their products? I'll tell you what: lower prices, smaller margins.

Before you start telling AMD what to do with their business, I suggest a basic economics class.

Pull the AMD cock out of your mouth. He was simply stating that advertising might help sales, which is a true statement. As for the second, obviously that's not going to happen, but you didn't attack that for whatever reason even though it's the weaker of the two statements.

I think it's good, hopefully AMD can gain some customer-base from this, even if they don't win the lawsuit. I'm working on getting money together for a 939 system right now, it'd be nice to see if this would help drop prices a little bit.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Never owned an AMD processor. Don't plan on it either.

i owned 2 and i wont own one ever again, the chips arent bad other then they run terrible hot but i have a problem with all the [/b]substandard motherboards[/b] everyone loves soo much. both amds that i have had i threw out as i had more problems then successes with.

Myths like these are what have kept AMD down, IMO.

Sure, AMD has had chips that "run hot". So has Intel.

Sure, there have been substandard motherboards on the market for AMD processors. Have you forgotten that the same manufacturers also make boards for Intel processors?

Doesen't Anand run some of the site on Athlon systems? So much for the stability argument.

Anyway, all this is moot. If even half of this is true, Intel should be ashamed of themselves. It doesen't matter what we all think; it is against the law and they should be punished.

 

[keeleysam]

a64 3500+
aXP 2600+
aXP 2000+
aXP 1700+
athlon 1400
athlon 1000
pentium 3 600
k6-2 450
k6-2 300
pentium 2 266
pentium mmx 200
pentium 100
486-sx
amd 386

 

[Sqube]

Ameesh: That's interesting; as a whole, I've always heard that Intel had more of a tendency for running hot than AMD did.

Pabster: I think you can clearly tell that I don't know what you've been doing on these boards for the past 4 years or so (check my join date). Also interesting to note is that at no point did I call you a troll. I said if I had to guess, based on your posts in the dual core threads, you look more like an Intel fanboy than you do anything else. I did not say that you are a fanboy/troll or anything else.

After all the effort I put into qualifying my statements...

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Never owned an AMD processor. Don't plan on it either.

i owned 2 and i wont own one ever again, the chips arent bad other then they run terrible hot but i have a problem with all the [/b]substandard motherboards[/b] everyone loves soo much. both amds that i have had i threw out as i had more problems then successes with.

Myths like these are what have kept AMD down, IMO.

Sure, AMD has had chips that "run hot". So has Intel.

Sure, there have been substandard motherboards on the market for AMD processors. Have you forgotten that the same manufacturers also make boards for Intel processors?

Doesen't Anand run some of the site on Athlon systems? So much for the stability argument.

Anyway, all this is moot. If even half of this is true, Intel should be ashamed of themselves. It doesen't matter what we all think; it is against the law and they should be punished.

I thought before the Prescott, the Intel chips were always cooler than the AMDs

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

I thought before the Prescott, the Intel chips were always cooler than the AMDs

That's pretty much how it was before Prescott. Now Intel chips are generally hotter than their AMD counterparts.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Sqube
Ameesh: That's interesting; as a whole, I've always heard that Intel had more of a tendency for running hot than AMD did.

Don't worry about Ameesh. If you work for one monopoly, it's hard to condemn the practices of another. Part of his statements concerned a limited number of AMD processors in the past (while he ignores Intel's current heat issues), and for the other part of his statements, he'll have to decide whether it's not true for AMD or Intel, or true for both of them (as crappy motherboard manufacturers have made crappy motherboards for most processors on the planet).

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: Sqube

Originally posted by: timosyy
Any one the trolls actually read the complaint? I'm on page 32 right now, and so far its pretty damning stuff.

The thing is, that doesn't matter. According to Pabster and FreshPrince:
- the lawsuit itself is stupid because AMD is acting like b|tches
- AMD would do it if they could, so they shouldn't sue

How can one argue with logic like that?

Yeah, in the realm of ATOT, that is infallible logic.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Fvck this! I'm going back to P&N where people aren't so polarized!

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Never owned an AMD processor. Don't plan on it either.

i owned 2 and i wont own one ever again, the chips arent bad other then they run terrible hot but i have a problem with all the substandard motherboards everyone loves soo much. both amds that i have had i threw out as i had more problems then successes with.

FUD
Intel has hot processors too, see Prescott.
Substandard mobos are *not* made by AMD. While it's true you need a mobo to run a processor on (capt. obvious), it's also true there are stable mobos for that processor.

Anyone who says AMD *processors* are not stable is full of sh!t. A much more accurate statement is some mobos for AMDs are not good, more specificaly it tends to be the chipset.

Now, who's to say some of those problems aren't related to the case?

MS supports Intel chipsets in XP, almost all features by default. For example, you don't need to hit F6 during the XP setup to add SATA drivers for non-intel chipsets. Can the same be said about the larger AMD chipsets? Why not? Is this related to the suit?

 

[HumblePie]

Pabster you have yet to bring ANY logic from the other side of WHY AMD is doing this. All you and freshprince claim is that it's weak or whining or whatever. That's not an argument, that's a trollish statement. I'm sitting here posting fact after fact of WHY AMD is finally going about this litigation and why it has to resort to this. The question you should be asking yourself is why are YOU letting AMD do the litigation for you. If Intel is found guilty of these practices of which they HAVE BEEN FOUND for overseas foreign governements with much less restrictive monoply laws, then it is your duty as an American to see crime punished under due process.


The gall of someone complaining that 1 company has to resort to Uncle Sam stepping in to settle a dispute is like two kids arguing in a sand box over a shovel has my mind boggled. This is not an issue of 2 kids in a sand box needing uncle sams help to settle things fairly. This is about 1 kid BREAKING THE LAW and the other kid having to do something to fix it because no one else around has the balls to do it.

If you read the legal document it's NOT JUST A LAWSUIT. It's a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. They are seeking both compensatory damages (suing) and puninative damages (criminal fines and jail time). I will use names like troll and maybe worse like retard because that is exactly how your arguments come across.

If you want to not be regarded as a troll then do me and everyone else on this board a favor. READ THE FRIKKING DOCUMENT. Then make remarks after knowing the facts. Until then QFT you troll monger.

 

[exdeath]

It's about time.

Intel has been bribing and strong arming companies to use only Intel chips for years.

Every time Dell or any big Intel client takes a look at offering AMD, Intel raises an eye brow.

I say offer everything and let the consumer have choices. Let the product distinguish itself.

Having to strong arm someone to use only your product over a competitor?s superior offering is the wrong way to do things. The right way would be offering a truly innovative and competitive product (i.e.: Pentium M) that people will want to buy in the first place.

But nooo.... instead companies like Intel just want to have a free ride, remarking their same old stuff as new products year after year after year (ie: P6). It?s time to force companies to stop relying on marketing spin, name brand image, and black mailing of vendors to sell their sub standard products and instead force them to have to offer innovative and superior products. Sink or swim.

It?s also nice to see that AMD is pursing this legitimately as their market share is on the rise. This is in sharp contrast to what we are used to seeing: dying companies that use lawsuits as a sole source of revenue as a last resort when their products become substandard and are no longer in demand rather than staying with the market (ie: Apple, SCO, RIAA, Rambus, etc)

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: HumblePie
Pabster you have yet to bring ANY logic from the other side of WHY AMD is doing this. All you and freshprince claim is that it's weak or whining or whatever. That's not an argument, that's a trollish statement. I'm sitting here posting fact after fact of WHY AMD is finally going about this litigation and why it has to resort to this.

You aren't posting any fvcking facts. Just a bunch of crap from AMD's press release and "legal document". That is 100% allegation, not fact. Until you can discern the difference, perhaps you should return to your day job.

The question you should be asking yourself is why are YOU letting AMD do the litigation for you. If Intel is found guilty of these practices of which they HAVE BEEN FOUND for overseas foreign governements with much less restrictive monoply laws, then it is your duty as an American to see crime punished under due process.

Oh, please. Don't start some patriotic bantering. I'm 100% behind investigating anti-trust cases and holding the party(ies) responsible if and when the facts are proven. So get off your pathetic soapbox.

[worthless crap trimmed for brevity...]

If you read the legal document it's NOT JUST A LAWSUIT. It's a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. They are seeking both compensatory damages (suing) and puninative damages (criminal fines and jail time). I will use names like troll and maybe worse like retard because that is exactly how your arguments come across.

Use any name you like, you're only helping to illustrate my point. If you want to go around hurtling insults, go right ahead. It is already blatantly clear that you aren't a lawyer, so don't start breaking down your "legal" document for me.

If you want to not be regarded as a troll then do me and everyone else on this board a favor. READ THE FRIKKING DOCUMENT. Then make remarks after knowing the facts. Until then QFT you troll monger.

I've read your beloved "document" and there is nothing new to see. AMD has made many of the same charges against Intel in the past. Again, this "document" you refer to has no facts whatsoever, but, rather, a series of accusations. Until a jury decides otherwise, that is all they are. In America, it is innocent until proven guilty. Got it?

Oh yeah, QFT.

 

[Anubis]

where is all this BS comming from about AMD chips being unreliable?

ive used an amd chip for years, back in the k-6 days and never has any relability issues, intel chips on the other hand have given me nothing but headaches

the thunderbird chips ran slightly hotter then the P3s at the time slightly being less then 5C which is a non issue seeing as they killed them in terms of preformance, now adays its intell thats making the egg fryer of a CPU not AMD

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Anubis
where is all this BS comming from about AMD chips being unreliable?

ive used an amd chip for years, back in the k-6 days and never has any relability issues, intel chips on the other hand have given me nothing but headaches

the thunderbird chips ran slightly hotter then the P3s at the time slightly being less then 5C which is a non issue seeing as they killed them in terms of preformance, now adays its intell thats making the egg fryer of a CPU not AMD

AMD had huge stability problems in the Tbird days, there wasnt a chipset out that wasnt buggy, all of them had some kind of quirk whether it was the sound quitting after a 2 months, Random restarts with certain memory brands, leaking capacitors, drivers that just plain didnt work (SiS). The 3rd party manufacturers have vastly improved quality control, mainly due to larger marketshare of AMD, and heavy competition from the big 5 producing AMD chipsets.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Anubis
where is all this BS comming from about AMD chips being unreliable?

ive used an amd chip for years, back in the k-6 days and never has any relability issues, intel chips on the other hand have given me nothing but headaches

the thunderbird chips ran slightly hotter then the P3s at the time slightly being less then 5C which is a non issue seeing as they killed them in terms of preformance, now adays its intell thats making the egg fryer of a CPU not AMD

I have no fvcking clue, but coming from a tech-based site it's kinda leaves me .

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: AcanthusAMD had huge stability problems in the Tbird days, there wasnt a chipset out that wasnt buggy, all of them had some kind of quirk whether it was the sound quitting after a 2 months, Random restarts with certain memory brands, leaking capacitors, drivers that just plain didnt work (SiS). The 3rd party manufacturers have vastly improved quality control, mainly due to larger marketshare of AMD, and heavy competition from the big 5 producing AMD chipsets.

SiS !=AMD
leaking caps = mobo !=AMD
drivers= software !=AMD.
memory != AMD

WTF are you smoking?

edit: I'll say it again, there have been stable solutions for every AMD chips for quite some time. The fact that 3rd party sh!t breaks AMD based rigs doesn't mean AMD is at fault.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: AcanthusAMD had huge stability problems in the Tbird days, there wasnt a chipset out that wasnt buggy, all of them had some kind of quirk whether it was the sound quitting after a 2 months, Random restarts with certain memory brands, leaking capacitors, drivers that just plain didnt work (SiS). The 3rd party manufacturers have vastly improved quality control, mainly due to larger marketshare of AMD, and heavy competition from the big 5 producing AMD chipsets.

SiS !=AMD
leaking caps = mobo !=AMD
drivers= software !=AMD.
memory != AMD

WTF are you smoking?

yea thats called sh!tty mobos manufacturing not sh!tty chips from AMD

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: AcanthusAMD had huge stability problems in the Tbird days, there wasnt a chipset out that wasnt buggy, all of them had some kind of quirk whether it was the sound quitting after a 2 months, Random restarts with certain memory brands, leaking capacitors, drivers that just plain didnt work (SiS). The 3rd party manufacturers have vastly improved quality control, mainly due to larger marketshare of AMD, and heavy competition from the big 5 producing AMD chipsets.

SiS !=AMD
leaking caps = mobo !=AMD
drivers= software !=AMD.
memory != AMD

WTF are you smoking?

yea thats called sh!tty mobos manufacturing not sh!tty chips from AMD

Furthermore the "there was no stable T-bird chipsets" is total BS. Yes there were chipsets with issues, and some with out. If all the t-bird chipsets sucked so much how come they handed the Intel based rigs their ass on a silver platter? I mean they *were* the rage in the tech community at the time for a reason.

 

[fs5]

286
486dx
pII 266
celeron 300 -> 450
Duron 600 -> 1.0
p4 1.6 -> 2.6
A64 3200

 

[HumblePie]

Hrmm... let me requote everything you put in here pabster...

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: HumblePie
If you read the claims at one point AMD offered Hewlett Packard 1 million CPUs for a line of desktops for FREE. Yes, AMD was willing to give away 1 million of their best CPUs for zero, zilch, nada, for money. All they wanted in return was for HP to market those desktops so AMD could get some publicity.

Another (as yet unproven) allegation.

So what happened? Intel found out and stepped in. Said they'd pay HP more money then what they would sell those 1 million computers for AND offer them discounts on other products if they would decline the FREE offer from AMD and fire the exec who even considered going with AMD desktops. Guess what happened? Some business exec started looking for a job the next day.

Assuming that is true, what would be wrong with it? That is called business. Sell to the highest bidder. Intel has more $. So what?

I have to agree with several other posters that AMD would be far better off MARKETING and ADVERTISING rather than LITIGATING. Litigation costs BIG BUCKS and AMD doesn't have that kind of reserve nor cash flow.

I applaud AMD 100% for creating chips that are equal to (and in many cases faster) than what Intel has to offer. Competition is what drives lower prices and more innovation for us geeks to enjoy. But this one seems like "If you can't beat 'em, just sue 'em"...

You are making fun of AMD for trying to "sue" Intel instead of just using a better marketing strategy. You say what Intel is doing is just using a better "business tactic." As far as "legal" documents, ANYTHING proposed to a court as a "legal" document for litigation must be backed up by facts and evidence. Even if it's circumstantial and not enough to prove guilt beyond a resonable doubt. WHY? Otherwise it's would be considered SLANDER. Since, as you put it, AMD has tried this before and failed then the whole thing they put forth is slanderous. Which would allow Intel to sue the pants off them and put them in a hole so deep years ago they'd not be around today. However, it is NOT slander just at the time was unverified. Actually, technically, this BY LAW can not be the same document with the same allegations or that would be double jeopardy.

So if AMD claims to have offered 1 million CPUs for free then they have the proof to back up that claim or better have it. Yes, HP doesn't have to take 1 million CPUs for free, but they'd either a) be nuts not to or b) were strong armed into not taking the deal. Intel needs to prove "a" because otherwise "b" is AGAINST THE FVKING LAW and is not good "business tactics" as you put it. Sorry, anything that breaks the laws is not good business practice. IF so, I'm going to start charging you for "protection" or I'm going to break both your kneecaps by tomorrow if you don't pay up. There, that's just business so don't take it personally Curtis.

Originally posted by: Pabster
Oh, get a grip.

Intel is a large corporation. AMD would do the same thing IF THEY COULD.

I'm not saying I support the tactics (assuming all these accusations are true) but criticizing a large company for using its power is pretty laughable.

This is nothing but a PURE TROLLISH STATEMENT. You can not claim AMD would adopt the same business practices if it was "big." What the hell is wrong with you? Criticizing a large company for BREAKING THE LAW is anything but laughable. Unless you are trying to refer to the laughable in the fact we, the consumers, screwed up and let Intel into a position to make these practices and did nothing so far until now to stop them. So as far as you "claiming" AMD would do the same thing... ugh. At least AMD has put forth on paper the exact details of woeful wrong doing Intel has and is going through legal due process to get it solved. You are just being a troll on an internet message board.

Originally posted by: Pabster
ROFLMAO. Ok, sure. Perhaps you don't understand business?

I understand business perfectly well. AMD has for years tried to do things the right way. Yet, everytime I design a better product and a cheaper, they can't sell it. They do some investigating and put in a claim years ago to court about Intel breaking the law. That case was dismissed. They continue to find MORE wrong doing and it gets obvious enough that the Japanese government steps in and slaps Intel in their country HARD. AMD, boistered by that result, and back up by NEW allegations with evidence, is putting forth a NEW lawsuit. They can not, by legal precidance, put forth the same claims they made before if Intel was found innocent before. Everything they do now is considered NEW. Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand business and law.


Oh wait. That last sentance by me is obvious to me and the majority of posters here.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

I thought before the Prescott, the Intel chips were always cooler than the AMDs

The AXP was generally hotter than the similar p4, although with the Throughbred and Barton it was pretty close. With the A64 I *think* it was pretty close, the the p4 prescott turned into a furnace and the A64 90nm lost its heat.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: AcanthusAMD had huge stability problems in the Tbird days, there wasnt a chipset out that wasnt buggy, all of them had some kind of quirk whether it was the sound quitting after a 2 months, Random restarts with certain memory brands, leaking capacitors, drivers that just plain didnt work (SiS). The 3rd party manufacturers have vastly improved quality control, mainly due to larger marketshare of AMD, and heavy competition from the big 5 producing AMD chipsets.

SiS !=AMD
leaking caps = mobo !=AMD
drivers= software !=AMD.
memory != AMD

WTF are you smoking?

yea thats called sh!tty mobos manufacturing not sh!tty chips from AMD

Furthermore the "there was no stable T-bird chipsets" is total BS. Yes there were chipsets with issues, and some with out. If all the t-bird chipsets sucked so much how come they handed the Intel based rigs their ass on a silver platter? I mean they *were* the rage in the tech community at the time for a reason.

exactly and fvck im still running a Tbird 1.4 on its origional mobo and on its origional ram, and IVE NEVER HAD A FVCKING ISSUE AND ITS BEEN LIKE 5 FING YEARS and this thing has ran just about every day for those 5, ive had to replace a HDD and the GFX card but the mobo ram and cpu have been rock solid for nearly half a decade

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: HumblePie
You are making fun of AMD for trying to "sue" Intel instead of just using a better marketing strategy. You say what Intel is doing is just using a better "business tactic." As far as "legal" documents, ANYTHING proposed to a court as a "legal" document for litigation must be backed up by facts and evidence.

Baloney. I never "made fun" of anyone...except perhaps you

And you are wrong (again). A lawsuit can be filed without merit. It happens ALL THE TIME. Sometimes it is done simply as a scare tactic.

Even if it's circumstantial and not enough to prove guilt beyond a resonable doubt. WHY? Otherwise it's would be considered SLANDER. Since, as you put it, AMD has tried this before and failed then the whole thing they put forth is slanderous. Which would allow Intel to sue the pants off them and put them in a hole so deep years ago they'd not be around today. However, it is NOT slander just at the time was unverified. Actually, technically, this BY LAW can not be the same document with the same allegations or that would be double jeopardy.

You really don't have a clue about the legal system, do you?

So if AMD claims to have offered 1 million CPUs for free then they have the proof to back up that claim or better have it. Yes, HP doesn't have to take 1 million CPUs for free, but they'd either a) be nuts not to or b) were strong armed into not taking the deal. Intel needs to prove "a" because otherwise "b" is AGAINST THE FVKING LAW and is not good "business tactics" as you put it. Sorry, anything that breaks the laws is not good business practice. IF so, I'm going to start charging you for "protection" or I'm going to break both your kneecaps by tomorrow if you don't pay up. There, that's just business so don't take it personally Curtis.

No thanks, I'd rather trust my cat to provide protection

You just don't get it, do you? In the legal system we have anyone can (and does) sue anyone for anything. Merit or no merit. Fact or no fact. It happens every day. Just because there is a 50-page dossier of supposed violations doesn't make a single word of it truth much less fact in a court of law. I'd suggest you read up a little bit...
Intel is a large corporation. AMD would do the same thing IF THEY COULD.

This is nothing but a PURE TROLLISH STATEMENT. You can not claim AMD would adopt the same business practices if it was "big." What the hell is wrong with you? Criticizing a large company for BREAKING THE LAW is anything but laughable. Unless you are trying to refer to the laughable in the fact we, the consumers, screwed up and let Intel into a position to make these practices and did nothing so far until now to stop them. So as far as you "claiming" AMD would do the same thing... ugh. At least AMD has put forth on paper the exact details of woeful wrong doing Intel has and is going through legal due process to get it solved. You are just being a troll on an internet message board.

POT->KETTLE->BLACK, as usual around these parts.

If you don't believe that a company would use its position in the market to its advantage (assuming it could) then you are either naive or just another "troll" as you put it.

I understand business perfectly well. AMD has for years tried to do things the right way. Yet, everytime I design a better product and a cheaper, they can't sell it. They do some investigating and put in a claim years ago to court about Intel breaking the law. That case was dismissed. They continue to find MORE wrong doing and it gets obvious enough that the Japanese government steps in and slaps Intel in their country HARD. AMD, boistered by that result, and back up by NEW allegations with evidence, is putting forth a NEW lawsuit. They can not, by legal precidance, put forth the same claims they made before if Intel was found innocent before. Everything they do now is considered NEW. Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand business and law.

I like how you use "I" to refer to AMD. Perhaps you are on the payroll?

Oh wait. That last sentance by me is obvious to me and the majority of posters here.

P.S. You might consider using a spell checker next time