AMD delays the delay -Kaveri- is its last competitive market gone?

[notty22]

More casualties. Good, they announce details.
It's mentioned, that there are still employees to work on future APU drivers.

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (NYSE:AMD) closes down Linux research centre ...

With this closure, AMD has let go of all its developers involved in writing code for the Linux kernel and introducing some uncertainty to AMD as a platform for the open-source community.


AMD processors have traditionally been priced lower compared to that of Intel, because of its engagement with the open-source community, especially Linux.


According to reports, only one small division of open source developers has been spared, with the team that develops open source drivers for AMD's graphics processors and APUs (accelerated processing units) unaffected by the closure, The Register said.

 

[exar333]

More casualties. Good, they announce details.
It's mentioned, that there are still employees to work on future APU drivers.

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (NYSE:AMD) closes down Linux research centre ...

 

[Haserath]

Lets see,

Take a look at IvyBridge Quad(4) core die. HD4000 has 16 EUs and it takes almost 33% of the die size.

Now, Core i3 has its own dual(2) core die. HD4000 should take almost 50% of the die area.

Haswells GT3 will have 40 EUs,
you end up with Haswell Core i3 with GT3 iGPU occupying more than 50% of the die size, (could be 60-70% ??). Not only that but it will effect the die size as well, making it bigger. That will bring margins down or making the price of Core i3 and the rest of the CPUs go up.

I believe Intel will not put GT3 in Core i3 and bellow. They dont need it, they will try to keep margins high and keep the current prices.

Intel is also focusing Haswell on lower power processors. The extra EU's are meant to make the graphics core more efficient and:
http://ark.intel.com/products/family/59133/2nd-Generation-Intel-Core-i3-Processors/mobile
http://ark.intel.com/products/family/65503/3rd-Generation-Intel-Core-i3-Processors/mobile

Looking there, Sandy bridge i3's and Ivy Bridge i3's were priced identically. Meaning they most likely have extra capacity.

Plus, the extra graphics power also means cheaper laptops if they don't require a GPU, which means more sales.

And Apple stock lost 165$ in 50 days now

The bubble popped with Steve gone. AMD's popped with Core 2.

 

[Idontcare]

Gentlemen, AMD stock costs is now at the same price of a tall cup of starbucks coffee in Manhattan. Both are $2.01

Here is irony in a picture:

Link

GloFo leads at #1 rank, AMD is dead last at #20 rank.

Those fabs that Ruiz swore would be the death of AMD, not doing so bad. AMD looks to be a leader in their field.

 

[Haserath]

Here is irony in a picture:


GloFo leads at #1 rank, AMD is dead last at #20 rank.

Those fabs that Ruiz swore would be the death of AMD, not doing so bad. AMD looks to be a leader in their field.

Glofo's profit: unknown

Amount of money Glofo is spending on fabs: Absurd, most likely money AMD didn't have

Glofo also didn't seem to get as much as TSMC in total growth, instead of just percents.

 

[ShintaiDK]

More casualties. Good, they announce details.
It's mentioned, that there are still employees to work on future APU drivers.

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (NYSE:AMD) closes down Linux research centre ...

Its really being cut to the bone now.

 

[Idontcare]

Glofo's profit: unknown

Amount of money Glofo is spending on fabs: Absurd, most likely money AMD didn't have

Glofo also didn't seem to get as much as TSMC in total growth, instead of just percents.

You are right, for sure AMD would be doing even worse than they are now had they still had the fabs.

 

[Haserath]

You are right, for sure AMD would be doing even worse than they are now had they still had the fabs.

I see what you did there..now.

 

[pablo87]

You are right, for sure AMD would be doing even worse than they are now had they still had the fabs.

Not really. They would not have had the money to invest in 32nm and would have been forced to continue on 45nm, BD would have never seen the light of day, AMD would have had to abandon the high end earlier (which they will soon anyway, if not already) which would have saved them a lot of money as the incremental revenue (ie Stars to BD) (if any) could not have been worth the R&D expended.

Thus, AMD would have had to change their business model to GPU and APU, and moved everything to TSMC. And as we've seen with Brazos, TSMC would most definitely be better for APUs - lower engineering cost since GPUs already fabbed there, better time to market for the same reason and I don't know this for sure but I suspect, better yields and smaller die size and thus, lower cost.

What AMD did with selling the fabs and moving the debt off balance sheet by way of the WSA was kick the can down the road. At least with on balance sheet debt all you have to do is come up with the payment every six months, you can pretty much run the business as you see fit whereas with agreements tied to asset sales like this, it makes you do stupid things (remember when AMD's CFO didn't order enough Brazos? he was doing that because he knew they had this massive take or pay commitment with Global Foundries) that eventually ruin the business.

 

[pablo87]

Its really being cut to the bone now.

I'm not going to sit here and defend AMD mgmt as they've been incompetent in so many ways its actually unbelievable, but I doubt this is to the bone.

Prior to AMD acquiring ATI in 2006?, ATI's overhead including all the costs associated with being a public company in its own right, were $170MM per quarter on $630MM in revenue. If AMD were to abandon the high end PC and Server (which they've basically done, nobody has told them ), they'd be left with ATI plus Jaguar which would result in a lot deeper cuts than they are making now.

 

[Arkaign]

I see what you did there..now.

Yeah I think what was inferred, which I agree with and said at the time it was announced :

AMD buying ATI was a terrible thing for pretty much everyone. It cut the momentum in AMD's CPU development out at the knees, they overpaid massively and went hugely in debt, subsequently lost all their fabs, it's really just pathetic. You can't run a company forever on quarter after quarter after quarter of major losses, cuts to staff/R&D, entire departments being scrapped.

The story of AMD is an almost picture-perfect example of how to royally eff up since basically mid-'06.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

 

[Idontcare]

Yeah I think what was inferred, which I agree with and said at the time it was announced :

AMD buying ATI was a terrible thing for pretty much everyone. It cut the momentum in AMD's CPU development out at the knees, they overpaid massively and went hugely in debt, subsequently lost all their fabs, it's really just pathetic. You can't run a company forever on quarter after quarter after quarter of major losses, cuts to staff/R&D, entire departments being scrapped.

The story of AMD is an almost picture-perfect example of how to royally eff up since basically mid-'06.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

Rory makes nearly $2m a year to drive that thing into the ground!? Seriously? They couldn't find anyone who might be able to do the same thing but do it for the bargain price of just $1m/yr?

 

[IntelUser2000]

It will take a new Intel generation of iGPUs to catch Trinity, at the time Trinity will already be 12 months old or more. With the current rumors Brodwell will have to compete with Kaveri a GCN architecture most probably at 20nm (yes i believe AMD will use GloFos 20nm in 2014.

Only true in desktops.

But in mobile, Haswell might even beat Kaveri in graphics. Kaveri is TDP and die size limited being on a similar process, and we may see another 30-40 or so % gain. We already know the top Kaveri is a 512 CU part. We just need to see how the 7970 fares versus the 6970 to know how Kaveri will do. The increase in compute units are comparable.

Not to mention even Trinity is already struggling in the low wattage space against Ivy Bridge. Even if Haswell 15W is only 30% faster than Ivy Bridge, it'll probably be enough to widen the lead.

 

[mrmt]

Rory makes nearly $2m a year to drive that thing into the ground!? Seriously? They couldn't find anyone who might be able to do the same thing but do it for the bargain price of just $1m/yr?

Would you take the job?

Now, seriously, AMD is a train wreck waiting to happen. No manager worth his salt would want to go for AMD without a very good paycheck. Even paying that much and only after months of search all they could pull is a Rory "execution" Read. I would not want to be in the shoes of the head hunters responsible for fill those positions at AMD.

 

[Olikan]

AMD buying ATI was a terrible thing for pretty much everyone. It cut the momentum in AMD's CPU development out at the knees, they overpaid massively and went hugely in debt, subsequently lost all their fabs, it's really just pathetic. You can't run a company forever on quarter after quarter after quarter of major losses, cuts to staff/R&D, entire departments being scrapped.http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

Hector Ruiz was AMD doom...

heck, even bulldozer failure came from him

 

[mrmt]

Hector Ruiz was AMD doom...

heck, even bulldozer failure came from him

Oh, not only Hector. Look at their GPU market. Market grew YoY and Nvidia posted 15% revenues growth YoY, AMD, OTOH, posted a 14% decline YoY. Even with GNC, the big die high power chip of them, they have no excuse for posting so appalling results except poor planning and incorrectly predicting market movements, in other words, management failure from the current executive team.

This is the most incompetent executive team to ever manage a SP500 company. Those guys could bankrupt an arab oil company if they tried hard enough.

 

[Idontcare]

Would you take the job?

Now, seriously, AMD is a train wreck waiting to happen. No manager worth his salt would want to go for AMD without a very good paycheck. Even paying that much and only after months of search all they could pull is a Rory "execution" Read. I would not want to be in the shoes of the head hunters responsible for fill those positions at AMD.

Yes, but only for $3m and not a penny less

Oh, not only Hector. Look at their GPU market. Market grew YoY and Nvidia posted 15% revenues growth YoY, AMD, OTOH, posted a 14% decline YoY. Even with GNC, the big die high power chip of them, they have no excuse for posting so appalling results except poor planning and incorrectly predicting market movements, in other words, management failure from the current executive team.

This is the most incompetent executive team to ever manage a SP500 company. Those guys could bankrupt an arab oil company if they tried hard enough.

Not just incompetent, Hector was dabbling in the illegal areas as well with all that insider trading scandal stuff. The guy was worse than incompetent, he was intentionally doing things with his time on the clock that served to undermine AMD's shareholders.

 

[mrmt]

Yes, but only for $3m and not a penny less

Beware, you might receive a call in 2013, and given their make or break state, they might offer even more

Not just incompetent, Hector was dabbling in the illegal areas as well with all that insider trading scandal stuff. The guy was worse than incompetent, he was intentionally doing things with his time on the clock that served to undermine AMD's shareholders.

AMD has a serious management problem. They still could not find a true replacement for Sanders and Sanders left 10 years ago.

Hector was crazy and corrupt, Dirk didn't give strategic direction for the company, and Rory Read, oh boy, what is he doing there?

 

[Fox5]

More casualties. Good, they announce details.
It's mentioned, that there are still employees to work on future APU drivers.

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (NYSE:AMD) closes down Linux research centre ...

Sad, AMD performed better under Linux than Windows by a wide margin.

Well, this has instantly shifted me from an ardent AMD supporter to never buying another AMD product. I want companies that actually support their products.

 

[mrmt]

Well, this has instantly shifted me from an ardent AMD supporter to never buying another AMD product. I want companies that actually support their products.

What's the point in keeping a team of linux developers optimizing for servers if the server market is toast?

 

[cytg111]

Nono, let me put this thing in perspective for you all.

The AMD APU going into PS4, and possibly 720, is what will replace Kaveri in the roadmap.
I mean, it makes perfect sense right, when we get to play those crappy console ports, they wont be crappy, cause they're actually running on the same hardware.

Right ?

/Run for cover/n

 

[Maragark]

Only true in desktops.

But in mobile, Haswell might even beat Kaveri in graphics. Kaveri is TDP and die size limited being on a similar process, and we may see another 30-40 or so % gain. We already know the top Kaveri is a 512 CU part. We just need to see how the 7970 fares versus the 6970 to know how Kaveri will do. The increase in compute units are comparable.

You mean 512 stream processors, which works out to 8 GCN CUs, which is also what the HD 7750 has.

 

[cytg111]

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...d-that-pc-is-10-times-as-powerful-as-ps3-360/

""A lot of it's driver overhead issues, where there's so much that we do in the game, all of this dynamic texture updating where on the console we say 'alright, we've got a new page of data', we put that page in and update the page table that points to that.

"On the console that may just be a matter of writing it to memory, it's like 'here's the texture, let's calculate exactly where this part of the page table is' and then we just poke it right in there," he explained."

- Apparently theres a difference between a whole lot of flops and fps'es in the real world... And maybe this is what this custom "AMD APU" offers ...

And remember : Carmack is a rockstar!

 

[wenboy]

Nono, let me put this thing in perspective for you all.

The AMD APU going into PS4, and possibly 720, is what will replace Kaveri in the roadmap.
I mean, it makes perfect sense right, when we get to play those crappy console ports, they wont be crappy, cause they're actually running on the same hardware.

Right ?

/Run for cover/n

Technologically APUs make sense, with performance switching you can either use a low power APU chip for casual gaming / movies and hybrid crossfire a decent GPU on core games. Since you only need kind of hardware support, developers won't be that lazy to optimize for crossfire. When that game is ported to PC, they are likely to support crossfire better than alternative hardware configurations. Hopefully AMD is still around at that time...

 

[Abwx]

Only true in desktops.

But in mobile, Haswell might even beat Kaveri in graphics. Kaveri is TDP and die size limited being on a similar process, and we may see another 30-40 or so % gain. We already know the top Kaveri is a 512 CU part. We just need to see how the 7970 fares versus the 6970 to know how Kaveri will do. The increase in compute units are comparable.

Not to mention even Trinity is already struggling in the low wattage space against Ivy Bridge. Even if Haswell 15W is only 30% faster than Ivy Bridge, it'll probably be enough to widen the lead.

All boils down to Steamroller CPU efficency.

If it do better per cycle than Trinity by a sizeable margin it will
somewhat leverage the GPU part.

As of now , and according to AMD it will be more IPC efficient
but to an extent still unknown given the meager infos and lack
of real world hard numbers.