AMD delays the delay -Kaveri- is its last competitive market gone?

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by Haserath, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. notty22

    notty22 Diamond Member

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    More casualties. Good, they announce details.
    It's mentioned, that there are still employees to work on future APU drivers.

    Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (NYSE:AMD) closes down Linux research centre ...
     
  2. exar333

    exar333 Diamond Member

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  3. Haserath

    Haserath Senior member

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    Intel is also focusing Haswell on lower power processors. The extra EU's are meant to make the graphics core more efficient and:
    http://ark.intel.com/products/family/59133/2nd-Generation-Intel-Core-i3-Processors/mobile
    http://ark.intel.com/products/family/65503/3rd-Generation-Intel-Core-i3-Processors/mobile

    Looking there, Sandy bridge i3's and Ivy Bridge i3's were priced identically. Meaning they most likely have extra capacity.

    Plus, the extra graphics power also means cheaper laptops if they don't require a GPU, which means more sales.
    The bubble popped with Steve gone. AMD's popped with Core 2.
     
  4. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    Here is irony in a picture:

    [​IMG]
    Link

    GloFo leads at #1 rank, AMD is dead last at #20 rank.

    Those fabs that Ruiz swore would be the death of AMD, not doing so bad. AMD looks to be a leader in their field.
     
  5. Haserath

    Haserath Senior member

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    Glofo's profit: unknown

    Amount of money Glofo is spending on fabs: Absurd, most likely money AMD didn't have

    Glofo also didn't seem to get as much as TSMC in total growth, instead of just percents.
     
  6. ShintaiDK

    ShintaiDK Lifer

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  7. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    You are right, for sure AMD would be doing even worse than they are now had they still had the fabs.
     
  8. Haserath

    Haserath Senior member

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    I see what you did there..now.
     
  9. pablo87

    pablo87 Senior member

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    Not really. They would not have had the money to invest in 32nm and would have been forced to continue on 45nm, BD would have never seen the light of day, AMD would have had to abandon the high end earlier (which they will soon anyway, if not already) which would have saved them a lot of money as the incremental revenue (ie Stars to BD) (if any) could not have been worth the R&D expended.

    Thus, AMD would have had to change their business model to GPU and APU, and moved everything to TSMC. And as we've seen with Brazos, TSMC would most definitely be better for APUs - lower engineering cost since GPUs already fabbed there, better time to market for the same reason and I don't know this for sure but I suspect, better yields and smaller die size and thus, lower cost.

    What AMD did with selling the fabs and moving the debt off balance sheet by way of the WSA was kick the can down the road. At least with on balance sheet debt all you have to do is come up with the payment every six months, you can pretty much run the business as you see fit whereas with agreements tied to asset sales like this, it makes you do stupid things (remember when AMD's CFO didn't order enough Brazos? he was doing that because he knew they had this massive take or pay commitment with Global Foundries) that eventually ruin the business.
     
  10. pablo87

    pablo87 Senior member

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    I'm not going to sit here and defend AMD mgmt as they've been incompetent in so many ways its actually unbelievable, but I doubt this is to the bone.

    Prior to AMD acquiring ATI in 2006?, ATI's overhead including all the costs associated with being a public company in its own right, were $170MM per quarter on $630MM in revenue. If AMD were to abandon the high end PC and Server (which they've basically done, nobody has told them :(:(), they'd be left with ATI plus Jaguar which would result in a lot deeper cuts than they are making now.
     
  11. Arkaign

    Arkaign Lifer

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    Yeah I think what was inferred, which I agree with and said at the time it was announced :

    AMD buying ATI was a terrible thing for pretty much everyone. It cut the momentum in AMD's CPU development out at the knees, they overpaid massively and went hugely in debt, subsequently lost all their fabs, it's really just pathetic. You can't run a company forever on quarter after quarter after quarter of major losses, cuts to staff/R&D, entire departments being scrapped.

    The story of AMD is an almost picture-perfect example of how to royally eff up since basically mid-'06.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
     
    #86 Arkaign, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  12. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    Rory makes nearly $2m a year to drive that thing into the ground!? Seriously? They couldn't find anyone who might be able to do the same thing but do it for the bargain price of just $1m/yr? o_O
     
  13. IntelUser2000

    IntelUser2000 Elite Member

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    Only true in desktops.

    But in mobile, Haswell might even beat Kaveri in graphics. Kaveri is TDP and die size limited being on a similar process, and we may see another 30-40 or so % gain. We already know the top Kaveri is a 512 CU part. We just need to see how the 7970 fares versus the 6970 to know how Kaveri will do. The increase in compute units are comparable.

    Not to mention even Trinity is already struggling in the low wattage space against Ivy Bridge. Even if Haswell 15W is only 30% faster than Ivy Bridge, it'll probably be enough to widen the lead.
     
  14. mrmt

    mrmt Diamond Member

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    Would you take the job? :D

    Now, seriously, AMD is a train wreck waiting to happen. No manager worth his salt would want to go for AMD without a very good paycheck. Even paying that much and only after months of search all they could pull is a Rory "execution" Read. I would not want to be in the shoes of the head hunters responsible for fill those positions at AMD.
     
    #89 mrmt, Nov 9, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  15. Olikan

    Olikan Golden Member

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    Hector Ruiz was AMD doom...

    heck, even bulldozer failure came from him
     
  16. mrmt

    mrmt Diamond Member

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    Oh, not only Hector. Look at their GPU market. Market grew YoY and Nvidia posted 15% revenues growth YoY, AMD, OTOH, posted a 14% decline YoY. Even with GNC, the big die high power chip of them, they have no excuse for posting so appalling results except poor planning and incorrectly predicting market movements, in other words, management failure from the current executive team.

    This is the most incompetent executive team to ever manage a SP500 company. Those guys could bankrupt an arab oil company if they tried hard enough.
     
  17. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    Yes, but only for $3m and not a penny less :D
    Not just incompetent, Hector was dabbling in the illegal areas as well with all that insider trading scandal stuff. The guy was worse than incompetent, he was intentionally doing things with his time on the clock that served to undermine AMD's shareholders.
     
  18. mrmt

    mrmt Diamond Member

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    Beware, you might receive a call in 2013, and given their make or break state, they might offer even more ;)

    AMD has a serious management problem. They still could not find a true replacement for Sanders and Sanders left 10 years ago.

    Hector was crazy and corrupt, Dirk didn't give strategic direction for the company, and Rory Read, oh boy, what is he doing there?
     
  19. Fox5

    Fox5 Diamond Member

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    Sad, AMD performed better under Linux than Windows by a wide margin.

    Well, this has instantly shifted me from an ardent AMD supporter to never buying another AMD product. I want companies that actually support their products.
     
  20. mrmt

    mrmt Diamond Member

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    What's the point in keeping a team of linux developers optimizing for servers if the server market is toast?
     
  21. cytg111

    cytg111 Platinum Member

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    Nono, let me put this thing in perspective for you all.

    The AMD APU going into PS4, and possibly 720, is what will replace Kaveri in the roadmap.
    I mean, it makes perfect sense right, when we get to play those crappy console ports, they wont be crappy, cause they're actually running on the same hardware.

    Right ?

    /Run for cover/n
     
  22. Maragark

    Maragark Member

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    You mean 512 stream processors, which works out to 8 GCN CUs, which is also what the HD 7750 has.
     
  23. cytg111

    cytg111 Platinum Member

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    http://www.computerandvideogames.co...d-that-pc-is-10-times-as-powerful-as-ps3-360/

    ""A lot of it's driver overhead issues, where there's so much that we do in the game, all of this dynamic texture updating where on the console we say 'alright, we've got a new page of data', we put that page in and update the page table that points to that.

    "On the console that may just be a matter of writing it to memory, it's like 'here's the texture, let's calculate exactly where this part of the page table is' and then we just poke it right in there," he explained."

    - Apparently theres a difference between a whole lot of flops and fps'es in the real world... And maybe this is what this custom "AMD APU" offers ...

    And remember : Carmack is a rockstar!
     
    #98 cytg111, Nov 9, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  24. wenboy

    wenboy Junior Member

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    Technologically APUs make sense, with performance switching you can either use a low power APU chip for casual gaming / movies and hybrid crossfire a decent GPU on core games. Since you only need kind of hardware support, developers won't be that lazy to optimize for crossfire. When that game is ported to PC, they are likely to support crossfire better than alternative hardware configurations. Hopefully AMD is still around at that time... :(
     
  25. Abwx

    Abwx Diamond Member

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    All boils down to Steamroller CPU efficency.

    If it do better per cycle than Trinity by a sizeable margin it will
    somewhat leverage the GPU part.

    As of now , and according to AMD it will be more IPC efficient
    but to an extent still unknown given the meager infos and lack
    of real world hard numbers.