AMD Comments on GPU Stuttering, Offers Driver Roadmap & Perspective on Benchmarking

[lavaheadache]

So now blaming FRAPS for AMD problems?

-ban, =)

 

[AdamK47]

I like the intro by Ryan. This is an obvious push by Nvidia to back away from raw framerates and to focus on something else when their then highest tier consumer cards were getting beaten at the framerate game.

 

[thilanliyan]

With single card setups (nVidia and AMD/ATI) I have never noticed microstutter. For the brief hour I ran 6950 Xfire, I noticed what I guess was microstutter when running the Metro 2033 benchmark. Improvements are welcome though so I hope AMD and nVidia both tackle the problem.

What I got from the article was that AMD GPUs are SOOOOO fast that they are always waiting on the OS, or the CPU, etc etc...like Usain Bolt running with shoelaces tied together!
(Groove...can I get a 7990 now please...I spun it the best I could...)

 

[Lonbjerg]

Frame latency? Not to pick on you, but it's not latency that's being measured or discussed, it's "frame interval". The article was very specific on this and explained why it's important.

It's important that we use the correct terminology. It stops confusion with different phenomenon being described as the same thing. This happens with the term "micro-stutter" all of the time being used for single GPU stuttering when it's a multi-GPU specific issue. You then end up with data from different testing being interjected into the discussion either to reinforce or reject a position. It confuses things, rather than clarify them.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6857/amd-stuttering-issues-driver-roadmap-fraps/5

You forgot to read that page...

 

[SirPauly]

It's good to see more awareness on this because it bothered me when I read mountains out of molehills, especially from Ryan.

 

[Lonbjerg]

It's good to see more awareness on this because it bothered me when I read mountains out of molehills, especially from Ryan.

Wanna bet that even now that AMD has come clean that they did (and still have problems) have problems they overlooked...some people will still deny it?

 

[Olikan]

It's good to see more awareness on this because it bothered me when I read mountains out of molehills, especially from Ryan.

true, it's kinda surprising they man up and admit the problem... that is very rare in this industry

 

[Lonbjerg]

true, it's kinda surprising they man up and admit the problem... that is very rare in this industry

They kinda don't have a choice...since people are starting getting hard data, highligthing their issues...

 

[NIGELG]

Of course Nvidia has no issues:awe:.....




Right?

 

[Olikan]

They kinda don't have a choice...since people are starting getting hard data, highligthing their issues...

they could have used theyr reality distortion field.....but it might have been fired with the PR team :twisted:

or just blamed FRAPS, since nvidia don't like it too

 

[SirPauly]

Imho,

The key for awareness was to improve not only AMD sku's and platforms but nVidia sku's and platforms! As an advocate for smooth gaming for many, many years this was like music to my ears to see web-sites, gamers, investigations, views and discussions that did go beyond just raw frame-rate.

Now nVidia and AMD are paying more attention, which benefits PC gaming.

 

[Rvenger]

They kinda don't have a choice...since people are starting getting hard data, highligthing their issues...

Both camps admitted to issues such as this. Unbelievable how some people twist things around here.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Wanna bet that even now that AMD has come clean that they did (and still have problems) have problems they overlooked...some people will still deny it?

Not a single person outright denied that there were issues. Many denied the extent of the issues because of poor testing criteria and incomplete data.

But if you want to "make a mountain out of a molehill" go right ahead.

 

[paul878]

So can it be fix??????????????

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Of course Nvidia has no issues:awe:.....




Right?

Of course they do, they can't make cards fast enough!

 

[VulgarDisplay]

So can it be fix??????????????

From the article the answer to this question would be yes and no.

They can work around issues, but the way the DirectX, Windows, and the game running interact will always result in issues that neither nvidia or AMD will be able to fix entirely.

As of right now it sounds like both manufacturers are basically fighting windows/direct X to keep frame interval and latency issues below what they feel is perceptable

 

[Grooveriding]

From the article the answer to this question would be yes and no.

They can work around issues, but the way the DirectX, Windows, and the game running interact will always result in issues that neither nvidia or AMD will be able to fix entirely.

As of right now it sounds like both manufacturers are basically fighting windows/direct X to keep frame interval and latency issues below what they feel is perceptable

That and individual game programming on a case by case basis. Far Cry 3 was a complete stuttering mess, possibly because they let you control the frame buffer setting, but that game was a horrible stutter fest for me.

It's only recently that it has actually played smoothly for me and I assume this is drivers or that you have to run the game at 60fps+ and with vsync to actually have it play smoothly.

 

[Silverforce11]

What is it that ppl have against vsync?

These days you can get dynamic vsync for radeons with radeon pro, and NV gets adaptive vsync via drivers. Is the input lag so much worse than having to deal with screen tear AND extra stutter??

<-- always game with vsync, its a waste of resources (electricity/heat) to have my GPU and CPU go faster than 60 fps when it doesnt affect the gameplay quality.

 

[thilanliyan]

I tried forcing vsync in CCC but when I was playing Space Marine, it was obvious it was not on...only enabling the game option turned it on. Is there a sure-fire way of having vsync on all the time?

 

[SolMiester]

After reading that article I have a question regarding this

"The fact that NVIDIA seemed to have figured all of this out much earlier was a point of frustration for AMD. The company likely left non-negligable amounts of performance on the table over the years, which could've definitely helped in close races."

Does anybody think that AMD will implement some of these fixes in legacy drivers? Namely for HD 4XXX and up? I suppose even including them for the HD 2XXX and 3XXX would be feasible since they are all a using unified shaders and can still play most games reasonably well at lowered resolution and details.

Are you saying there are these stuttering issues on the older hardware as well?, which is interesting, as while many say AMD drivers are shit, they have been labeled fanbois and all the other crap.....The single GPU stutter admittance was so long coming, I cant believe they have said it.

 

[thilanliyan]

as while many say AMD drivers are shit, they have been labeled fanbois and all the other crap

This is my own experience but I have had more problems with nVidia drivers than ATI ones. I think the perception about ATI drivers based on the very early ATI days is wrong, and is what most of the arguments are based on IMO. This is regarding single GPU, as I have very little to no experience with multi-GPU. I read constantly on these forums that ATI drivers are crap, but that has been the opposite of my experience. To me both companies put out drivers that are about equal (at least for single-GPU setups), and although I have had more problems with nVidia drivers, I certainly don't go around spamming the forums with "nV drivers sux0rs!!", which is what a lot of people that bash ATI's drivers do.

 

[blackened23]

That and individual game programming on a case by case basis. Far Cry 3 was a complete stuttering mess, possibly because they let you control the frame buffer setting, but that game was a horrible stutter fest for me.

It's only recently that it has actually played smoothly for me and I assume this is drivers or that you have to run the game at 60fps+ and with vsync to actually have it play smoothly.

I've noticed this as well. Some frame latency charts favor AMD while others favor nvidia. It isn't really consistent from what i've seen. For instance, bf3 has higher framerates on nvidia while AMD has better frametimes (when using latest drivers). OTOH, if you test something like hitman absolution - AMD has worse latency and better framerates and nvidia has worse framerates.

Doesn't seem very consistent at all and completely varies per game.

Does techreport use FRAPS to measure latency? I wonder how they feel about FRAPs measuring latency before it even hits the render pipeline...

 

[SolMiester]

Of course Nvidia has no issues:awe:.....




Right?

Not with single GPU stuttering they dont.....guess that deflates your e-peeny somewhat eh?..why else would you make this an us v them issue?

 

[omeds]

Good news, this can only be a positive for the industry, and kudos to AMD for manning up to the problem.

What is it that ppl have against vsync?

These days you can get dynamic vsync for radeons with radeon pro, and NV gets adaptive vsync via drivers. Is the input lag so much worse than having to deal with screen tear AND extra stutter??

<-- always game with vsync, its a waste of resources (electricity/heat) to have my GPU and CPU go faster than 60 fps when it doesnt affect the gameplay quality.

It's terrible for online FPS which a lot of people play. If you use a frame cap, say 125 cap at 60hz, you can greatly reduce tearing, or simply use a 120hz display where for many people vsync is not needed.

 

[Elfear]

Not with single GPU stuttering they dont.....guess that deflates your e-peeny somewhat eh?..why else would you make this an us v them issue?

From the article, it sounds like most issues that AMD had with single-GPU stuttering have been rectified and the remaining issues aren't that big.

"There is still work to do &#8211; AMD quickly fixed their DX9 issues, while DX10 fixes are in the process of being rolled out &#8211; but in many ways this is a post-mortem on the issue rather than being an explanation of what AMD will do in the future. Not every game is fixed yet, but many are. Scott Wasson&#8217;s most recent results show an incredible improvement for AMD compared to where they were even 6 months ago."

Nvidia just recently fixed some stuttering issues as well so I don't think there's much difference on the single-GPU front. Sounds like AMD multi-GPU setups still need some work though (although I haven't noticed any serious MS).