Discussion AMD Cezanne/Zen 3 APU Speculation and Discussion

[dr1337]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1292844896374718470

Fresh leak out today, not much is known but at least 8cu's is confirmed. Probably an engineering sample, core count is unknown and clocks may not be final.

This is very interesting to me because cezanne is seemingly 8cu only, and it seems unlikely to me that AMD could squeeze any more performance out of vega. A cpu only upgrade of renoir may be lackluster compared to tigerlake's quite large GPU.

What do you guys think? Will zen 3 be a large enough improvement in APU form? Will it have full cache? Are there more than 8cus? Has AMD truly evolved vega yet again or is it more like rdna?

 

[itsmydamnation]

Ian did make a good point in his followup article (assuming he's correct) - the cache chiplet is another 36 mm2 of expensive 7 nm being used. AMD's not going to be generous on pricing.

Previously Ian has done videos saying that really 7nm isnt that expensive, per mm . Certainly not relative to other costs that determine gross margins. So doing something really bad and assuming 100% yield and ignoring the extra packaging costs AMD could add like $8 per CCD to its cost base.

So as long as they have enough wafers then they can probably price it at the right price as well.

 

[eek2121]

Ian did make a good point in his followup article (assuming he's correct) - the cache chiplet is another 36 mm2 of expensive 7 nm being used. AMD's not going to be generous on pricing.

Warhol is on 6nm, so there should be some decent density improvement. Die sizes should end up about the same.

 

[coercitiv]

Ian did make a good point in his followup article (assuming he's correct) - the cache chiplet is another 36 mm2 of expensive 7 nm being used. AMD's not going to be generous on pricing.

Rest assured, if AMD launches this on AM4 you won't be able to buy it at MSRP.

 

[exquisitechar]

Ian did make a good point in his followup article (assuming he's correct) - the cache chiplet is another 36 mm2 of expensive 7 nm being used. AMD's not going to be generous on pricing.

The silicon itself shouldn't be that bad, it's just SRAM. The packaging costs will be worse.

AMD is definitely not going to be generous at all.

 

[Asterox]

This is not complete test, but it is more then enough to assess the situation.R5 5600G in also very good for gaming with discrete GPU.

Price=performance, it is clean win for cheaper R5 5600G in today mining madness and GPU shortage.

 

[Shivansps]

im assuming $159 for the 5300G, with the price increases that probably were the i3-11100 will land eventually. I dont think the prices will ever return to normal again.

 

[Shivansps]

"FSR will work on all Ryzen CPU-s with Radeon iGPU graphics"

My 2nd pc with the 2400G is still waiting for Relive to be re-added to APUs after they removed support... 2 years ago?

But it ill be a very nice thing to have, if they dont "accidentaly remove support for it" at some point. As i always said, 900P is the sweetspot for APUs, but you really have a problem if you have a 2K or 4K screen, also some games must be run at 720p.
As no one uses 720p or 900p as desktop resolution you are forced into using fullscreen and the gpu hardware scaler, what gives you excellent results even with a 4k display (i expended a year with a 2200G+4K screen), but you are forced into fullscreen...

if FSR works for borderless, it would be solve another issue of playing with APU, plus giving fps gains in games that were "close, but not enoght"...

BTW, we know whats the limit? because with the shortage of APUs, somehow, out of nowhere, AM4 Bristol Ridge re-appeared over here.

 

[AtenRa]

APUs lower price than non-apu CPUs ???

If it was Intel , then the Ryzen 5600G would be priced at $349 because it also has an iGPU and Ryzen 5600X would be priced at $299 (without heatsink).

AMD still needs to learn how to price its products.

 

[jpiniero]

APUs lower price than non-apu CPUs ???

Without the extra L3 it's slower in discrete GPU gaming.

 

[Zepp]

APUs lower price than non-apu CPUs ???

If it was Intel , then the Ryzen 5600G would be priced at $349 because it also has an iGPU and Ryzen 5600X would be priced at $299 (without heatsink).

AMD still needs to learn how to price its products.

IIRC the pre-Ryzen APU's did cost more than the same core count CPU counterparts

 

[Hulk]

What do you think the performance impact will be for the 5700G with 16MB L3 cache vs. the 5800X with 32MB of L3? I mean on a clock-for-clock basis? I'm mainly interested in video encoding so I'm thinking for that application there shouldn't be much difference?

 

[LightningZ71]

You may find that video encoding actually works faster on the 5700g if you care to tweak your RAM heavily. The imc on the mobile parts has been a bit more capable than the desktop parts for a while, and, since it's a monolithic design, there appears to be a bit better latency for memory accesses on their APUs when tuned.

 

[Asterox]

APUs lower price than non-apu CPUs ???

If it was Intel , then the Ryzen 5600G would be priced at $349 because it also has an iGPU and Ryzen 5600X would be priced at $299 (without heatsink).

AMD still needs to learn how to price its products.

If you wish you can send 40$(aid for the poor) to Intel, if R5 5600G/260$ is to cheep compared to 300$/R5 5600X.

The facts are very obvious, AM4 socket will never see R5 5600 non X version.

In today and future reality, R5 5600G is much more useful no doubt.iGPU gaming will get very nice FPS boost with FSR in action.

Here is example(1080p video option), in realtime how much is faster and useful AMD VCN/VCE hardvare video encoding on my R5 4650G.Compared to CPU only encoding, CPU+AMD VCE encoding is much faster and i am very satisfied.

Ryzen 5 Pro 4650G multithreading and cpu frequency scaling

drive.google.com

 

[Shivansps]

APUs lower price than non-apu CPUs ???

If it was Intel , then the Ryzen 5600G would be priced at $349 because it also has an iGPU and Ryzen 5600X would be priced at $299 (without heatsink).

AMD still needs to learn how to price its products.

Thats right after adding a premium on 5X00X cpus in the first place ...

 

[AtenRa]

6C 12T competitors with iGPUs

Core i5 11400 = 65W TDP – MSRP $182

Core i5 11500 = 65W TDP – MSRP $192

Core i5 11600 = 65W TDP – MSRP $213

Ryzen 5 5600G = 65W TDP – MSRP $259

Core i5 11600K = 125W TDP – MSRP $262 (no heatsink)



8C 16T competitors with iGPUs

Core i7 11700 = 65W TDP – MSRP $323

Ryzen 7 5700G = 65W TDP - MSRP $359

Core i7 11700K = 125W TDP – MSRP $399 (no heatsink)



So at $259 the 5600G has the best 65W performance both at CPU and iGPU and it remains to be seen how much behind it will be vs the 125W TDP 11600K in discrete GPU gaming.

5700G at 65W TDP is the fastest in both CPU and GPU performance and it remains to be seen how much slower it will be against the 125W TDP 11700K in discrete GPU gaming.

What AMD really lacks after the release of those two APUs is a Core i3 gen 11 competitor at the $100-150 price point. I dont believe we will see any ZEN 3 4C 8T APUs in the desktop though since they dont have a quad core die.

 

[Shivansps]

Because you are choosing to compare it to the 11600K, when it is likely to end near the 11400 in what cpu is concerned. Even the 5600X comparison is wrong here, it should be compared to the non-existant 5600. Or, better said, THIS IS THE 5600.

The 5300G is a thing, but it is likely a $160 product, they are in no hurry to launch that and at that price it is way too close to I5s.

 

[jpiniero]

The 5300G is a thing, but it is likely a $160 product, they are in no hurry to launch that and at that price it is way too close to I5s.

I think this is all you are going to get for DIY. Yields are so good that you're unlikely to get many chips that need to be cut down that far as it is; and you have the 5300U and the OEM 5300G in front.

I kind of wonder what AMD does with fully defective GPUs.

 

[scineram]

This somewhat better than expected price makes me lean towards the 5700G. If I can update my board for it I might even invest in some faster memory.

 

[blckgrffn]

This somewhat better than expected price makes me lean towards the 5700G. If I can update my board for it I might even invest in some faster memory.

Right? I mean, the 5800x is nice and all but I would have been able to save myself from buying GPU for my workstation PC and have mostly the same experience?

The 5700G - where can I buy it for that price? Am I relegated to eBay?

 

[Shivansps]

I think this is all you are going to get for DIY. Yields are so good that you're unlikely to get many chips that need to be cut down that far as it is; and you have the 5300U and the OEM 5300G in front.

I kind of wonder what AMD does with fully defective GPUs.

They will after they managed to supply the market with enoght 5600G and 5700G, because right now they would be wasting money, but eventually they will need a entry level APU. AM4 is going to go for a very long run as the budget platform and im petty sure Cezanne and the 3000G will be avalible for at least 5 years, maybe more. So im sure the 5300G will launch at some point for DIY probably before AM5.

 

[dr1337]

Another interesting point is tht the TSV sites have been in the CCD from the start:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1399664821717569542

Given this revelation, I really wish we had cezanne die shots around. I cant help but imagine what if, even though I know its probably not gonna happen. With how the v-cache came out of nowhere with no leaks, I can't help but imagine AMD cooking up more secret sauce.

 

[Racan]

I'd like to see Cezanne with v-cache it would boost CPU gaming perf significantly I think.

 

[therealmongo]

Thats right after adding a premium on 5X00X cpus in the first place ...

Would you be so kind that after 3,238 posts you can link me to one where you say something that is not negative about AMD.

 

[Shivansps]

Fact #1 The 5000X series came out with a all around price increase to it.
Fact #2 Everyone expected a 5600 non X to be priced lower due to that and never happened.
Fact #3 I point out that the 5600G IS that 5600 and it is fine to be priced lower due to that.

 

[misuspita]

Fact #4 5600G has a GPU, and quite a usable one, making it cheaper than buying a 1030 or equivalent.