AMD A10-5800K preview - iGPU side only

[CHADBOGA]

One also should never shelve their other responsibilities for higher settings in game .

To what percentage of the population would that apply to?

10%?

 

[Idontcare]

I find it amusing how AMD product releases always generate threads that have a few people adamantly saying "No, really guys, this is great, you want it" who will go on and on and on about it.

You aren't going to convince anyone here that they want it, and all your posting isn't going to make more people buy the things anyway.

They can't help themselves.

The Psychology of the Fanboy

 

[Ferzerp]

They can't help themselves.

The Psychology of the Fanboy

Amusingly, I don't follow the Intel releases threads. Do they end up the same? I just dont anticipate that they are nearly the train wrecks. (well, since p4 and all the atoms).

I hope it's not schadenfreude.

edit: I think I hold out hope for a real surprise on the AMD ones, but that doesn't mean I'll get excited over a mediocre product. I just find trying to claim that the cpu part of a cpu doesn't matter, and less bad igpu performance is all that matters to be some weird mental gymnastics. (Nor does inflating your core count excite me).

 

[Hacp]

Meaning it's only one configuration, and most of the times games are developed for it as a base resulting in ~60 fps and pretty much acceptable gameplay since you see what the developer studio intended to.

Most PC games are console ports. Also, many console games run at 30fps on the Xbox360 instead of 60fps. They use clunky controllers and motion blurring to hide the fps.

Gaming with the trinity gpu results in horrible ~20 fps gameplay and graphics WAY WORSE than xbox since PC's always had way bigger overhead and lower performance cause of the thousands different configs developers have to support.

Wrong. Just Check the benchmarks.

 

[anikhtos]

the main problem with amd is the pricing.
okey trinity at cpu more or less is the same as an i3
win some loose some so to be fair lets call them an even
or even lets say trinitz is slighty better but the margin is so small nothing really to consider.

igp of trinity well it is much better for sure
power consumption well at load lets give it to intel i3 at idle and low load call it a tie
and frnaklz 4-5 watt diference can be given to ram to mobo
someone can disable the things he will not use on mobo and then it will consume less
also the psu will plaz a major role int he effiesiensy of the system

1) for people that will never upgrade their machine well if the price is right trinity is a good option.
2) for people that look for a path or small upgrades then intel and i3 is the safer waz to go. if you are going to add a gpu then i3 will be much better.
also the intel mobo has so many cpu for upgrade options.
3)you want usb3 then intel is a way to go. or else what buy trinity mobo and an add on card??? that will add the cost of the platform.

it is a product with certain market the lowest available.
at least amd has some breathing space and something to sell

what i would reallz liked from amd is to make a 4 core bobcat cpu at 36 watt
that will be a killer product or a 3 core at 27 watt???? with ecc enabled and 16gb ram

that product will be a best selling one
ideal for htpc able to handle netfix because the cpu will be powerfull enough
it does not matter if it flash or microsoft or who ever fault that the e-450 can not plaz netfix what it matters for the user is that it cannot

 

[Idontcare]

Amusingly, I don't follow the Intel releases threads. Do they end up the same? I just dont anticipate that they are nearly the train wrecks. (well, since p4 and all the atoms).

They sometimes do, but it is harder to notice because the gulf between reality and the hype is much less making the fanboism all the less absurd or jarring.

What does come out in the AMD threads are the anti-AMD fanboys who are mistakenly perceived to be pro-Intel fanboys.

Add in to the mix the presence of anti-Intel fanboys that attempt to use pro-AMD news as a weapon in their war against Intel and you get what we currently label as CPUs and Overclocking

If given the choice I'll take a pro-fanboy over an anti-fanboy because the pro-fanboy's tend to be positive upbeat individuals (the cheerleaders that they are) and are content just focusing on the upside of their favorite brand. Whereas the anti-fanboys are all about negativity and just tearing things/people/businesses down because they are filled with loathing and vitriol.

But definitely the worst is the anti-Intel fanboy who masquerades as a pro-AMD fanboy. You know who I am thinking of, they can't post anything good about AMD without slipping in a snide comment regarding Intel. That person is all about being divisive. Avoid at all costs.

 

[pelov]

But definitely the worst is the anti-Intel fanboy who masquerades as a pro-AMD fanboy. You know who I am thinking of, they can't post anything good about AMD without slipping in a snide comment regarding Intel. That person is all about being divisive. Avoid at all costs.

You're only saying this because Intel paid off Dell who in turn pays you to post that

 

[Ferzerp]

They sometimes do, but it is harder to notice because the gulf between reality and the hype is much less making the fanboism all the less absurd or jarring.

What does come out in the AMD threads are the anti-AMD fanboys who are mistakenly perceived to be pro-Intel fanboys.

Add in to the mix the presence of anti-Intel fanboys that attempt to use pro-AMD news as a weapon in their war against Intel and you get what we currently label as CPUs and Overclocking

If given the choice I'll take a pro-fanboy over an anti-fanboy because the pro-fanboy's tend to be positive upbeat individuals (the cheerleaders that they are) and are content just focusing on the upside of their favorite brand. Whereas the anti-fanboys are all about negativity and just tearing things/people/businesses down because they are filled with loathing and vitriol.

But definitely the worst is the anti-Intel fanboy who masquerades as a pro-AMD fanboy. You know who I am thinking of, they can't post anything good about AMD without slipping in a snide comment regarding Intel. That person is all about being divisive. Avoid at all costs.

My problem is that I am anti-uninspiring product, so right now, on this board, I appear anti-amd because I see people trying to prop up anything and everything that they do and instead of just thinking, "aroo?" to myself, I now and then get pulled in to arguments. Maybe that, or I am just anti-fanboy in general and the AMD fanboys are the ones that are glaringly apparent because AMD is on the bottom.

I recognize that there is nothing that can be said that will advance any conversation with any type of fanboy, but every now and then I like to poke them with a stick. I probably shouldn't do that.

 

[Hacp]

They sometimes do, but it is harder to notice because the gulf between reality and the hype is much less making the fanboism all the less absurd or jarring.

What does come out in the AMD threads are the anti-AMD fanboys who are mistakenly perceived to be pro-Intel fanboys.

Add in to the mix the presence of anti-Intel fanboys that attempt to use pro-AMD news as a weapon in their war against Intel and you get what we currently label as CPUs and Overclocking

If given the choice I'll take a pro-fanboy over an anti-fanboy because the pro-fanboy's tend to be positive upbeat individuals (the cheerleaders that they are) and are content just focusing on the upside of their favorite brand. Whereas the anti-fanboys are all about negativity and just tearing things/people/businesses down because they are filled with loathing and vitriol.

But definitely the worst is the anti-Intel fanboy who masquerades as a pro-AMD fanboy. You know who I am thinking of, they can't post anything good about AMD without slipping in a snide comment regarding Intel. That person is all about being divisive. Avoid at all costs.

And then you have people who wander off topic by posting a multi paragraph rant, complete with charts, about something not related to Trinity..

 

[CHADBOGA]

My problem is that I am anti-uninspiring product, so right now, on this board, I appear anti-amd because I see people trying to prop up anything and everything that they do and instead of just thinking, "aroo?" to myself, I now and then get pulled in to arguments. Maybe that, or I am just anti-fanboy in general and the AMD fanboys are the ones that are glaringly apparent because AMD is on the bottom.

I recognize that there is nothing that can be said that will advance any conversation with any type of fanboy, but every now and then I like to poke them with a stick. I probably shouldn't do that.

Well apparently when one partakes in an AMD related product thread, they must be gushing with praise, not indicating why the product is uninspiring.

And heaven forbid if you argue against the most ridiculous AMD fanboy arguments, then you are thread crapping.

It seems like because AMD loses in the marketplace, they must be given wins on forums.

 

[Phynaz]

If you look at the steam hardware profiles. the majority of gamers playing on steam has hardware comparable or worse than the A10 GPU.

That would be the majority of people that have Steam installed and have submitted the hardware survey.

You have no evidence that people are actually playing games that would benefit from an A10.

 

[AtenRa]

720p & lowest image settings & 30 fps = mazochistic experience even for gamers on the tightest budget possible.

That is the entire Console market

 

[AtenRa]

I find it amusing how AMD product releases always generate threads that have a few people adamantly saying "No, really guys, this is great, you want it" who will go on and on and on about it.

You aren't going to convince anyone here that they want it, and all your posting isn't going to make more people buy the things anyway.

The same applies to people like you, Mallibu, CHADBOGA and others that trying hard to convince others that gaming with APUs is a waste of time.
Nobody said that Trinity is for everyone, but there are people who are going to use them for gaming. And for that faction, Trinity is way better than Core i3 at the same price, like it or not.

 

[Idontcare]

I liked what the Tech Report did for the their conclusions summary in their Trinity review.

By breaking down price-performance into three distinct categories we can see that Trinity provides neither a compelling advantage nor is it at compelling disadvantage in terms of price/performance for CPU performance as well as gaming when a discrete GPU card is added to the rig.

^ Trinity falls right on the same general line as Intel in price/performance, not an outlier - you get what you pay for in terms of CPU performance.

^ Add a discrete GPU (Radeon HD 7950) to your rig - be a trinity or i3 rig - and your gaming price/performance is inline with expectation as well. Pay more for an i3-based rig and get higher performance, but you won't get higher price/performance with the i3 or the trinity.

^ But if you happen to use your Trinity in gaming without a discrete GPU then the price/performance of trinity truly trumps that of Intel.

So basically with Trinity you are guaranteed to get what you pay for in terms of CPU performance and gaming, but you stand a chance of getting more than you pay for in comparison to an i3-based rig if you happen to game with the IGP.

What these graphs don't tell you is performance/watt which of course will matter in mobile applications but this isn't about mobile trinity, this is about trinity on the desktop.

 

[Idontcare]

And then you have people who wander off topic by posting a multi paragraph rant, complete with charts, about something not related to Trinity..

Yep. They are called mods, and that's them doing their jobs (letting people know what kinds of posting behaviors are desirable and what kinds are not). You might notice us doing that every now and then What is less common are members who call them out and challenge them on it.

 

[pelov]

^ But if you happen to use your Trinity in gaming without a discrete GPU then the price/performance of trinity truly trumps that of Intel.

So basically with Trinity you are guaranteed to get what you pay for in terms of CPU performance and gaming, but you stand a chance of getting more than you pay for in comparison to an i3-based rig if you happen to game with the IGP.

What these graphs don't tell you is performance/watt which of course will matter in mobile applications but this isn't about mobile trinity, this is about trinity on the desktop.

The kicker is the 65W 5700 non-K. It offers pretty much the same performance at a lower TDP. Though this won't interest the enthusiasts or system builders much (minus HTPC), it's a very good chip for OEMs looking to replace that hungry GPU for a pretty well-rounded preconfigured all-in-one or typical desktop.

If I were building an HTPC, that'd be my first choice for a chip. I'd skip right over the Ivy i3's. Light gaming on a TV at 6+ feet away at 720p is like playing a console except with a keyboard and mouse. That's still not possible with Intel's HD4000.

It's not a bad chip, but it depends on who's buying and for what purpose.

 

[NTMBK]

Yep. They are called mods, and that's them doing their jobs (letting people know what kinds of posting behaviors are desirable and what kinds are not). You might notice us doing that every now and then What is less common are members who call them out and challenge them on it.

 

[TerryMathews]

I liked what the Tech Report did for the their conclusions summary in their Trinity review.

By breaking down price-performance into three distinct categories we can see that Trinity provides neither a compelling advantage nor is it at compelling disadvantage in terms of price/performance for CPU performance as well as gaming when a discrete GPU card is added to the rig.

^ Trinity falls right on the same general line as Intel in price/performance, not an outlier - you get what you pay for in terms of CPU performance.

^ Add a discrete GPU (Radeon HD 7950) to your rig - be a trinity or i3 rig - and your gaming price/performance is inline with expectation as well. Pay more for an i3-based rig and get higher performance, but you won't get higher price/performance with the i3 or the trinity.

^ But if you happen to use your Trinity in gaming without a discrete GPU then the price/performance of trinity truly trumps that of Intel.

So basically with Trinity you are guaranteed to get what you pay for in terms of CPU performance and gaming, but you stand a chance of getting more than you pay for in comparison to an i3-based rig if you happen to game with the IGP.

What these graphs don't tell you is performance/watt which of course will matter in mobile applications but this isn't about mobile trinity, this is about trinity on the desktop.

That's a great summary IDC!

I'm surprised at the people who nay say trinity and llano. Its a comparable price performance ratio with a lower price. In effect, AMD has truncated the slope on the bottom end. How is that bad?

I'm strongly considering a trinity desktop for my wife and I love my llano laptop.

 

[Ferzerp]

That's a great summary IDC!

I'm surprised at the people who nay say trinity and llano. Its a comparable price performance ratio with a lower price. In effect, AMD has truncated the slope on the bottom end. How is that bad?

I'm strongly considering a trinity desktop for my wife and I love my llano laptop.

It's not bad per se. The ridiculous claims that the igpu is enough for gaming are really what many don't agree with. the igpu lies somewhere in between the "plenty for normal use" and "good enough for gaming" spectrum. This is the same realm that all the Intel igpus reside in. Both are fine for non-gaming usage. Neither are fine for gaming usage. AMD is much closer to "good enough for gaming" than Intel, but it isn't there.

My particular stance is that anything in that middle area is of equal value because not good enough for games is still not good enough for games, and trying to push people towards gaming with the thing is just creating a bad experience.

If it performed like a mid-range discrete video card you wouldn't get this reaction. Of course, what the igpu pushers don't realize is that this is an impossibility due to the die space and memory needed, and always will be because the discrete cards will always be able to devote more to this. The argument can be made that in 5 years, you can squeeze as much on the GPU to maybe match low to low-mid stand alone cards now. Well, great, but the discrete market isn't stagnant, and will continue on on its merry way and in 5 years, you're still left with something too slow compared to the discrete offerings.

 

[Atreidin]

What I find more annoying than anything else are the people who assume anyone saying anything not anti-AMD is automatically a fanboy. When they see someone say "maybe AMD isn't so bad, or not as bad as you think", or "for some people, this processor is good enough to play games on, since those people have lower standards than you", they get jumped all over. They are perfectly reasonable points, but they get blasted off the planet. Some people hate fanboys so much they see them everywhere, even in places they don't exist. They read every sentence expecting a fanboy slant, so that is what they perceive. It makes having a rational conversation with them nearly impossible.

 

[The Alias]

It's not bad per se. The ridiculous claims that the igpu is enough for gaming are really what many don't agree with. the igpu lies somewhere in between the "plenty for normal use" and "good enough for gaming" spectrum. This is the same realm that all the Intel igpus reside in. Both are fine for non-gaming usage. Neither are fine for gaming usage. AMD is much closer to "good enough for gaming" than Intel, but it isn't there.

My particular stance is that anything in that middle area is of equal value because not good enough for games is still not good enough for games, and trying to push people towards gaming with the thing is just creating a bad experience.

If it performed like a mid-range discrete video card you wouldn't get this reaction. Of course, what the igpu pushers don't realize is that this is an impossibility due to the die space and memory needed, and always will be because the discrete cards will always be able to devote more to this. The argument can be made that in 5 years, you can squeeze as much on the GPU to maybe match low to low-mid stand alone cards now. Well, great, but the discrete market isn't stagnant, and will continue on on its merry way and in 5 years, you're still left with something too slow compared to the discrete offerings.

your definition of god enough for gaming differs from my own . You see I was a console gamer until the summer of last year and just coming from consoles to a 2600xt ($30 refurb at the time) netted me extra settings in my favorite game (cod4) and then to a gt240 ($40) which pretty much allowed me to every game I wanted to at higher settings than consoles before it died

The point I'm trying to make is there are more tiers of gameplay than you guys account for . Trinity is a huge boon to people coming off of consoles that want to stay within console price range ($350ish) and still want to feel like they upgraded . I know, because I was that person a year ago !

Sure enough for five hundred bucks you're better off with an intel and a dgpu, but that doesn't match the feeling of spending the same money you would on a console and getting a way better experience . for example, bf3 on consoles doesn't even render at 720p, struggles to keep thirty fps, and it's been said by reviewers that the game on it's lowest settings on pc look better than on console; now trinity a10 users can play bf3 on medium at 720 and have an average framerate over 30 .

 

[Hacp]

Yep. They are called mods, and that's them doing their jobs (letting people know what kinds of posting behaviors are desirable and what kinds are not). You might notice us doing that every now and then What is less common are members who call them out and challenge them on it.

I'm calling you out as a poster, not a mod. You as a poster are trolling this thread and insulting other members.

 

[Ferzerp]

average framerate over 30

 

[The Alias]

I was mistaken it was on low

 

[Centauri]

What I don't get is that tech heads across the spectrum have always bemoaned the performance levels IGPs have saddled unsuspecting buyers with - yet now that AMD is spearheading the attack on that market (prompting Intel to finally pay attention as well) they're the bad guy.

If AMD ignores it, then they're stupid for giving up a potential market. If they put effort and marketing into growing that segment, then they're not doing it fast enough and they're lying.

So many hypocrites around here, it's amazing.