AMD A10-5800K preview - iGPU side only

[taltamir]

I have an xbox 360 for games because i am not wasting money constantly upgrading my pc just to play the latest games.

An 8800GTX cost less then the PS3, came out 3 days earlier, and can still be used today to play any modern game and do so at higher quality then the PS3. Then game the 8800GTS cards...

Wish I remembered what PC card was that to an xbox360 but its just been so much time...
Still I got my XFX HD6950 used for 150$, much less then I can buy an xbox360 for.

We aren't FORCED to upgrade our PCs. We do so because we want to and because we CAN.

 

[The Alias]

Wish I remembered what PC card was that to an xbox360 but its just been so much time...

1900xt if memory serves

 

[The Alias]

Yes Poverty Mentality, because unless you are dirt poor, who the hell can't get a system that games properly at 1080p and still do all that family guff you mentioned.

No, that's realizing that there's more stuff to do than game and there's alot you can do with $200 . I don't know if it's because how out of touch you are, but whatever the reason is it's not a poverty mentality to want to do other things with your money !

 

[Arkadrel]

Brand aside, until an igpu can offer decent performance (no, getting 30 fps in some games on low settings isn't decent performance), they have no point (beyond rendering extremely basic tasks, webpages, movie viewing, etc) in my view. A slightly less sucky igpu will do that stuff no better than a pretty bad one.

You can't play games with them, and you'd be better off spending the money wasted on the igpu for a cpu that works better. Everything has an igpu of some sort at this point almost, and none of them are good enough for gaming. Then, if you want to play games, just buy a low, mid, high, whatever discrete card.

Really, anyone trying to game on these would be better off with a console. A console is generally less of a hassle, but we put up with the PC hassle because of the much improved visuals. If you aren't getting improved visuals, you're getting the worst of both worlds.

~55 fps , Good Quality and 1920x1080 resolution.

This is with DDR3-1600 and stock settings for the APU.
Get some DDR3-1866 or faster, and overclock the iGPU and you ll probably have ~75+ fps.

Id say for WoW a APU like the A10-5800k is enough for decent gameplay
(esp if you pair it with faster ram, and OC the iGPU).

Same is true for alot of other games that arnt as demanding as say Battlefield 3.

 

[Hacp]

Now, if they don't care about video games then the A10 gives them nothing over the i3 because they DO NOT CARE about video game performance.?

Your method of thinking if flawed. You place customers in two groups with no middle ground in between. The truth is that there are millions of people who do not play first person shooters.

What are some games that would appreciate the A10 over the i3?
League of legends. Guild Wars 2. Diablo 3. World of Warcraft. Borderlands 2. Dota 2. If I can get away with playng these games at good framerates with everything turned down, I would. Trinity allows me to do this.

 

[Rvenger]

Same is true for alot of other games that arnt as demanding as say Battlefield 3.

On my A6-3650, Battlefield 3 was playable on 1366x768 with Medium settings. I was getting around 30fps. With an A10 I bet you can do 1600x900 on medium at around 40fps which is decent. (No MSAA)

 

[CHADBOGA]

No, that's realizing that there's more stuff to do than game and there's alot you can do with $200 . I don't know if it's because how out of touch you are, but whatever the reason is it's not a poverty mentality to want to do other things with your money !

You needlessly lock yourself into mediocrity.

 

[The Alias]

You needlessly lock yourself into mediocrity.

when more important aspects of my life are great ? I'll take that

 

[The Alias]

On my A6-3650, Battlefield 3 was playable on 1366x768 with Medium settings. I was getting around 30fps. With an A10 I bet you can do 1600x900 on medium at around 40fps which is decent. (No MSAA)

multiplayer too ???

 

[taltamir]

Your method of thinking if flawed. You place customers in two groups with no middle ground in between. The truth is that there are millions of people who do not play first person shooters.

Like me

What are some games that would appreciate the A10 over the i3?
League of legends. Guild Wars 2. Diablo 3. World of Warcraft. Borderlands 2. Dota 2. If I can get away with playng these games at good framerates with everything turned down, I would. Trinity allows me to do this.

I played all those games with my AMD dGPU. namely XFX HD6950

and I did include extra points. I included those who care about games and get a budget dGPU along with a CPU thats is cheaper then both the A10 and the i3.
And I included those who play games on a laptop where the A10 has a place... but suffers greatly from its high power consumption.

 

[Hacp]

Like me
I included those who care about games and get a budget dGPU along with a CPU thats is cheaper then both the A10 and the i3.

Once the Cpu/Mobo combos discounts start rolling out, it'll be hard to get a dedicated GPU+CPU combo that'll outmatch the A10, unless you're scrounging around for used parts.

 

[railven]

I just went through this with a buddy. I don't think you'd want to hamstring yourself with a relatively weak GPU even if you're just shooting for 720P for now. Hell, still use an AMD CPU and AMD GPU if you want, but you'll get better results for sure with a discrete setup.

I also advise against worrying about a tiny form factor. Is a few more inches really that big of a deal in exchange for much more robust products (particularly in regards to the PSU and mobo!) ?

This is basically what we set him up with :

i5-2500K ($159 MC deal)
Some AsRock Z77 Mobo ($80)
8GB DDR3 1600 ($30)
Re-used 120GB SSD and Re-used 1.5TB Seagate
VisionTek 2GB 7850 ($180)
Antec 550W PSU ($50)
Some Silverstone Black Aluminum Horizontal Desktop case (~$100ish at Fry's)

So a bit more expensive than $350, but it could be scaled back a lot with a PhII + $50ish mobo, 7770, and a newegg Apevia case.

I'm currently just entertaining the thought of what I would build. I currently have parts to build a Phenom X3 720 + GTX 460 + 4GB on a GA 865 UD3 board, but I know this build (it was my GF's primary build for 2 years) and it is loud.

Looking into tech for a quiet PC is costly, and frankly this thing will most likely be used for console ports (since frankly those are the only ones worth playing with a game pad), Netflix, and the Youtube. So, noise is a concern (as the PS3 which was doing the above minus PC gaming is turning into a banshee.)

Noise is the primary focus here. I'm pretty sure with more coin I can get a quiet HTPC, but considering what I know it will be used for (GF watching Youtube/Netflix/Playing WoW/Minecraft while the dinner is cooking, or she's making me a sandwich ) so cheap is better!

I've also entertained the thought of instead of dropping $350 on a new rig, look for a quiet cooler for a X3 720, the GTX 460, AND a decent case. Same cost, tons more (even if needless) performance.

But I really wanted to build an APU system haha.

 

[Rvenger]

multiplayer too ???

I only play multiplayer

 

[AtenRa]

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

Fifth and Sixth most used DISCRETE cards on Steam are the GTX9800 and GTX9600. If im not mistaken close to A10-5800K at 1GHz iGPU and 2133MHz ram and A10-5800K with 1600/1866MHz ram in performance respectfully. (I will say the A10 will be faster in newer games.)

Ninth DISCRETE video card is the MOBILE GT540M, a card way bellow the performance of A10-5800K with 1600MHz memory.

Now, people play games at lower resolutions than 1080p and lower Image Quality settings than most of us here, but they are the majority and WE ARE THE MINORITY.

First High End DISCRETE Graphics Card is the GTX580 in 19th position.

 

[frozentundra123456]

~55 fps , Good Quality and 1920x1080 resolution.

This is with DDR3-1600 and stock settings for the APU.
Get some DDR3-1866 or faster, and overclock the iGPU and you ll probably have ~75+ fps.

Id say for WoW a APU like the A10-5800k is enough for decent gameplay
(esp if you pair it with faster ram, and OC the iGPU).

Same is true for alot of other games that arnt as demanding as say Battlefield 3.

I am sure there are SOME games you can play on an A10 or even a HD4000. Actually in a earlier post I broke it down. Out of 10 games, 4 were unplayable, 3 were playable only on low settings, and 3 could be played fairly well. (on the A10)

My point is, why does one want to spend 500 dollarish to get a system that will limit you to certain games and low to med settings when for another 100 to 200 dollars you can get a system that will play any game at med to high settings. Not to mention, that if you get say an i5 you will be set for the future with only adding a better graphics card if needed/desired. If you get an APU you are limited to low end graphics card upgrades for crossfire, which is not yet proven to work consistently, or to disabling the igpu to upgrade to a powerful card. Then you are stuck with a relatively weak CPU and a useless igpu.

 

[Hacp]

I am sure there are SOME games you can play on an A10 or even a HD4000. Actually in a earlier post I broke it down. Out of 10 games, 4 were unplayable, 3 were playable only on low settings, and 3 could be played fairly well. (on the A10)

In fact, most popular games can be run on the A10. I posted the list. Borderlands 2, WoW, LoL, Dota2, Guild Wars 2, Diablo 3, SC2 and much more.

My point is, why does one want to spend 500 dollarish to get a system that will limit you to certain games and low to med settings when for another 100 to 200 dollars you can get a system that will play any game at med to high settings. Not to mention, that if you get say an i5 you will be set for the future with only adding a better graphics card if needed/desired. If you get an APU you are limited to low end graphics card upgrades for crossfire, which is not yet proven to work consistently, or to disabling the igpu to upgrade to a powerful card. Then you are stuck with a relatively weak CPU and a useless igpu.

The point is that you're getting a very good CPU for 130 dollars, comparable to the i3-3220 which is similarly priced. The graphics is basically free. When the Igpu starts getting slow, you can disable it, up the clocks on your CPU, and get a discrete card.

 

[Ferzerp]

~55 fps , Good Quality and 1920x1080 resolution.

This is with DDR3-1600 and stock settings for the APU.
Get some DDR3-1866 or faster, and overclock the iGPU and you ll probably have ~75+ fps.

Id say for WoW a APU like the A10-5800k is enough for decent gameplay
(esp if you pair it with faster ram, and OC the iGPU).

Same is true for alot of other games that arnt as demanding as say Battlefield 3.

Yes, that one game delivers what I would call OK framerate according to that benchmark (though, years ago, when I actually was interested in wow, I learned that there was single player, casual fps, and then there was raiding fps which was 1/3 to 1/2 of that.)

 

[Madpacket]

My thoughts on the subject between the two processors are better spoken of in this article.

"http://semiaccurate.com/2012/10/01/amds-trinity-faces-off-with-intels-ivy-bridge/"

TLDR;

In most situations CPU performance simply does not matter any more but GPU performance defiantly does therefore it makes more sense for the general populace to choose Trinity over Ivy Bridge.

 

[Ferzerp]

In most situations CPU performance simply does not matter any more but GPU performance defiantly does therefore it makes more sense for the general populace to choose Trinity over Ivy Bridge.

It's purely cherry picking what you decide "simply doesn't matter" when you go down this path. The same arguement can be made than *any* current igpu is good enough to cover everything most people do, so igpu performance simply doesn't matter as well.

Typically, the people we see pushing this line are the same people who base the merits of a product on the company that has created it and not the product itself.

Of course you may argue "but think of what could be done if the baseline for igpus were higher" and I could just as easily flip it around and say "think of what could be done if the baseline for cpus were higher"

The long and short of it is that in no area of computing is anything ever "fast enough". Until you can simulate the entirety of the universe in an instant, there is always more that can be done.

 

[SPBHM]

I'm debating building an A10 system for gaming in the living room. Custom built, priced out, I'm looking at about ~$350 (Case/CPU/MoBo/RAM/HDD), which too me isn't bad. My target is 720P @ Medium settings (which is pretty much consoles) since I'll be sitting at least 7-8 feet away, so AA would almost (almost) be lost on me, and I guess that there MLAA/FXAA vasoline vision should do the trick.

My only road block is if I want to aim for a tiny case/build or cover my ass in case I need to stick a discrete GPU in there.

OR, spend a little more on a Laptop based on this that can be mobile when needed and HDMI'ed to the TV when needed. Decisions, decisions.

this card

will offer up to 2.5x the performance of trinity IGP, and you can buy the (non low profile version) for less than $100... also you can save $50 buying the X4 740 instead of the a10 (and CPU performance is almost the same)

1900xt if memory serves

it was a custom design, something in between the x1800 and the R600...
but I would say a lower-mid range PC from 2008 can still run console ports better than the consoles, AND it's cheaper to maintain (no xb live, cheaper games), also it's a PC, it can do a lot more... and you can play with mouse/kb

the constant need for upgrade is not a real necessity for PC gaming at the moment,
and if you are happy with how consoles play game, you should probably also be satisfied with some seriously low spec PC running games.

Pentium + 5770(6770) vs PS3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XswEkIkTz34

 

[The Alias]

Of course you may argue "but think of what could be done if the baseline for igpus were higher" and I could just as easily flip it around and say "think of what could be done if the baseline for cpus were higher"

so tell me, for the average user what i3 or pentium dual core isn't enough for the average user ?
call me whatever you'd like, but I know alot of people tried pc gaming with their oem pcs using just regular free to play games and promptly quit because they couldn't run them . My point is I think the average user would play pc games if their systems had the power to play the games when they originally dabbled in them and that's changing .

 

[Madpacket]

It's purely cherry picking what you decide "simply doesn't matter" when you go down this path. The same arguement can be made than *any* current igpu is good enough to cover everything most people do, so igpu performance simply doesn't matter as well.

Typically, the people we see pushing this line are the same people who base the merits of a product on the company that has created it and not the product itself.

Of course you may argue "but think of what could be done if the baseline for igpus were higher" and I could just as easily flip it around and say "think of what could be done if the baseline for cpus were higher"

The long and short of it is that in no area of computing is anything ever "fast enough". Until you can simulate the entirety of the universe in an instant, there is always more that can be done.

Naturally I disagree with your response.

The point is we're at a time of diminishing returns with regards to more CPU speed. Yes this will change once the software catches up but that is currently not the case. What's important is this is *not* the case with integrated GPU speeds, we obviously are in need of much more speed in this area of computing.

You stated "think of what could be done if the baseline for cpus were higher" so I challenge you, what could be done?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Naturally I disagree with your response.

The point is we're at a time of diminishing returns with regards to more CPU speed. Yes this will change once the software catches up but that is currently not the case. What's important is this is *not* the case with integrated GPU speeds, we obviously are in need of much more speed in this area of computing.

You stated "think of what could be done if the baseline for cpus were higher" so I challenge you, what could be done?

This is exactly why on the desktop, it makes much more sense to add a discrete card. The igpu is simply not good enough yet for gaming on modern AAA titles. If you want to limit yourself to older games and non-demanding current games, it might be adequate, but why settle for that when a discrete card is so much better for maybe 20% more cost at most.

 

[Ferzerp]

Separate operating environments for each running application for true sandboxing (needs memory too), reducing the penalty for AV software to as close to nothing as possible, much improved performance of JIT compiled applications, much improved loading of AOT compiled apps (ever wonder why .net patches take so long?), the ability to really do what Transmeta tried to do to allow for the ability to interpret foreign instructions an an acceptably fast manner, etc.

Don't be so naive to think there aren't a myriad of uses for faster procs. Applications are written for the lowest common denominator, and right now, that denominator is pretty low indeed.

 

[Hacp]

This is exactly why on the desktop, it makes much more sense to add a discrete card. The igpu is simply not good enough yet for gaming on modern AAA titles. If you want to limit yourself to older games and non-demanding current games, it might be adequate, but why settle for that when a discrete card is so much better for maybe 20% more cost at most.

How about Guild Wars 2 and Borderlands 2 at 720p? I think the IGP is good enough.