AMD A10-5800K preview - iGPU side only

[nemesismk2]

True. When performance doesn't matter, and the price reflects this, then the performance doesn't matter. It is a double-edged sword.

When selling into this tier, performance doesn't matter, and being the best performer means being the cheapest, not the fastest, for this tier.

I will likely build with A10's and A8's because of their platform cost, not because they are faster or offer better price/performance. This tier is not about price/performance. It is just about price.

I will be selling loads of A10 and A8 systems for this very reason. The A10 will be advertised as having better gaming performance than anything from Intel. Yes i will be stretching the truth a little/lot lol

 

[TerryMathews]

I think Llano and Trinity are great for laptops. They are advancing the performance standard of the bottom end.

 

[CHADBOGA]

that's my thinking too

Poverty mentality.

Poverty mentality? There are about half a dozen ways to take that and none of them are good. Please think before you post.
-ViRGE

 

[taltamir]

PC gaming offers plenty of other things than just epic resolutions with ludicrously over the top AA settings. Different input methods, lower prices, wider range of games, booming indie market, over a decade of backwards compatibility- and you can use it for surfing the net, and for getting work done. PC gaming isn't restricted to some god-like race of superbeings who run dual 680s.

Hyperbole much? A used 100$ video card is going to be miles above what the best iGPU in an A10 can give you.

And while it is true the PC gives you so much more, I don't find it enjoyable to play at minimum quality settings on a reduced resolution when I don't have to.
dual 680s are not required for that.

 

[railven]

I'm debating building an A10 system for gaming in the living room. Custom built, priced out, I'm looking at about ~$350 (Case/CPU/MoBo/RAM/HDD), which too me isn't bad. My target is 720P @ Medium settings (which is pretty much consoles) since I'll be sitting at least 7-8 feet away, so AA would almost (almost) be lost on me, and I guess that there MLAA/FXAA vasoline vision should do the trick.

My only road block is if I want to aim for a tiny case/build or cover my ass in case I need to stick a discrete GPU in there.

OR, spend a little more on a Laptop based on this that can be mobile when needed and HDMI'ed to the TV when needed. Decisions, decisions.

 

[taltamir]

I think A10 systems are going to be promoted by big box stores as a great gaming machine, and new owners will be sorely disappointed when they get home and cant run popular games like BF3, Crysis 2, or Witcher 2 at even the lowest settings at 1080p, which is the native resolution of almost any monitor you would buy today.

I agree, if they expect "Everything at MAX on Crysis3"... well... they'll be disappointed.... BUT :

Way to cherry pick benchmarks. Why did you not show BF3, Crysis 2 or Witcher 2 which would not even give adequate performance at the lowest settings at 1080p?

I never talked about 1080p, or high quality, or Crysis 2, Witcher 2 , BF3.

Dastral:
1. The 3 benchmarks you posted were all high quality 1080p?
2. You posted in them in a reply to a QUOTED statement about "Crysis 2, Witcher 2 , BF3"?

So yes you did talk about "1080p, or high quality, or Crysis 2, Witcher 2 , BF3".
In fact that was the whole point of your posts

 

[zaydq]

I hate linking Steam surveys but... http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/?sort=pct

Trinity will work considering theres about 10% of steam users using Intel HD graphics and a whole whack load of mainstream gamers using 'utter crap' for dedicated gpus.

 

[Arkaign]

I'm debating building an A10 system for gaming in the living room. Custom built, priced out, I'm looking at about ~$350 (Case/CPU/MoBo/RAM/HDD), which too me isn't bad. My target is 720P @ Medium settings (which is pretty much consoles) since I'll be sitting at least 7-8 feet away, so AA would almost (almost) be lost on me, and I guess that there MLAA/FXAA vasoline vision should do the trick.

My only road block is if I want to aim for a tiny case/build or cover my ass in case I need to stick a discrete GPU in there.

OR, spend a little more on a Laptop based on this that can be mobile when needed and HDMI'ed to the TV when needed. Decisions, decisions.

I just went through this with a buddy. I don't think you'd want to hamstring yourself with a relatively weak GPU even if you're just shooting for 720P for now. Hell, still use an AMD CPU and AMD GPU if you want, but you'll get better results for sure with a discrete setup.

I also advise against worrying about a tiny form factor. Is a few more inches really that big of a deal in exchange for much more robust products (particularly in regards to the PSU and mobo!) ?

This is basically what we set him up with :

i5-2500K ($159 MC deal)
Some AsRock Z77 Mobo ($80)
8GB DDR3 1600 ($30)
Re-used 120GB SSD and Re-used 1.5TB Seagate
VisionTek 2GB 7850 ($180)
Antec 550W PSU ($50)
Some Silverstone Black Aluminum Horizontal Desktop case (~$100ish at Fry's)

So a bit more expensive than $350, but it could be scaled back a lot with a PhII + $50ish mobo, 7770, and a newegg Apevia case.

 

[taltamir]

True, and many will approach DIY builds with that mindset.

My expectation is that pretty much anyone who is buying an i3-whatever type system is not going to know whether it actually has an i3-whatever inside or if it has an AMD A10/A8-whatever inside.

At that performance bracket people are spending $500 and not $1000 because they don't value the performance that comes in dropping $1k on speedy CPUs and ram. They are spending only $500 because that is all their computer is worth to them.

You are 100% correct, people buy a 500$ computer because that is what they believe a computer is worth. Only person I know with a dual GTX680 is on food stamps, disability, unemployed, and lives in a trailer park.

And yes if there is a form factor they like that is what they go for...

But what happens when there are two dozen computers at the store all at 500$ and all of them at the same form factor? (last I checked at brick and mortar store that was the case)
You can't even go by brand recognition because each brand has several computers in such form factors and price points using different components. (the big companies often have both AMD and intel CPUs and multiple builds)

At this point they are probably going to ask someone (clerk, family member, knowledgeable friend) "which is best" because they are going to want to FEEL like they are getting the most for their 500$. Yes they can afford more, but they are only willing to spend 500$ because they are frugal and frugal people don't like being "ripped off".

Now, if they don't care about video games then the A10 gives them nothing over the i3 because they DO NOT CARE about video game performance.

If they do care about video game performance then the A10 has to compete with an discrete GPUs from nvidia and AMD itself. Yes, you CAN get a discreet GPU in a system that cost 500$, it won't be the greatest dGPU but it will be faster than the A10. It can even still be both AMD GPU and AMD CPU even.

Yes the A10 is much much much better iGPU performance than the i3... but what is the target audience? Only place where I think this could possibly matter is in gaming laptops... at which point the horrible power inefficiency of the CPU will be a bitter pill to swallow for it (since a laptop is used for more then just gaming).

I hate linking Steam surveys but... http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/?sort=pct

Trinity will work considering theres about 10% of steam users using Intel HD graphics and a whole whack load of mainstream gamers using 'utter crap' for dedicated gpus.

I am pretty sure those intel iGPU ones are from laptops.
I know I installed steam on my work laptop which has an intel iGPU and I use it to play some games like plants vs zombies.

I wanted to play more serious games but unfortunately that sucky intel iGPU cannot run them even on lowest settings.

And those "utter crap" dGPUs? How many of them are actually worse than the A10 APU?

 

[taltamir]

delete

 

[frozentundra123456]

Which will be 150$ more expensive.
For 500$ you'll be able to buy at BestBuy/Wallmart/Friends a Box + 20" Monitor that can play "most mainstream games" : DOTA/TF2/D3/SC2/WOW/SIMS/BATMAN at "Console Quality".

If you know anything about hardware, you'll pick something else and custom build.
But if you don't, well it's a decent buy for a household for a lowish price.

So far the only A10 systems I have seen in big box stores are 599.00 to 799.00 without monitor. I doubt you will see them for 500.00 with a monitor for a long time. At 500.00 with a monitor they would be a decent value, although still very borderline for gaming.

 

[zaydq]

And those "utter crap" dGPUs? How many of them are actually worse than the A10 APU?

I was making a nark to a post from earlier. Some of them are worse, some of them aren't. The thing that relates them is their poor ability to render any graphically intensive titles on even the lowest of settings. So, a trinity processor may not be quite as good as so and so card, but that card is neither any good and the gains are insignifcant.

 

[Idontcare]

But what happens when there are two dozen computers at the store all at 500$ and all of them at the same form factor? (last I checked at brick and mortar store that was the case)
You can't even go by brand recognition because each brand has several computers in such form factors and price points using different components. (the big companies often have both AMD and intel CPUs and multiple builds)

At this point they are probably going to ask someone (clerk, family member, knowledgeable friend) "which is best" because they are going to want to FEEL like they are getting the most for their 500$. Yes they can afford more, but they are only willing to spend 500$ because they are frugal and frugal people don't like being "ripped off".

We can only speculate on why people end up purchasing any given brand, but the fact that AMD has nearly 50% unit marketshare in the desktop market segment suggests that basically people toss a coin and it is a 50/50 decision in the end.

AMD is strong in desktop processors, with 43 percent of the market, the same as last year.

source

 

[The Alias]

Poverty mentality.

no the mentality that there's other things to do in life then gaming at 1080p ! maybe I have a wife and kid that want to play games with me too, but instead of paying the extra hundred bucks on both the systems I save it and buy games on our steam accounts like torchlight, dota2, csgo, or items in free to play games like blacklight retribution . there's a lot you can do with an extra 100-200 bucks that'll affect you way more than higher settings ever could

 

[Ferzerp]

We can only speculate on why people end up purchasing any given brand, but the fact that AMD has nearly 50% unit marketshare in the desktop market segment suggests that basically people toss a coin and it is a 50/50 decision in the end.

Brand aside, until an igpu can offer decent performance (no, getting 30 fps in some games on low settings isn't decent performance), they have no point (beyond rendering extremely basic tasks, webpages, movie viewing, etc) in my view. A slightly less sucky igpu will do that stuff no better than a pretty bad one.

You can't play games with them, and you'd be better off spending the money wasted on the igpu for a cpu that works better. Everything has an igpu of some sort at this point almost, and none of them are good enough for gaming. Then, if you want to play games, just buy a low, mid, high, whatever discrete card.

Really, anyone trying to game on these would be better off with a console. A console is generally less of a hassle, but we put up with the PC hassle because of the much improved visuals. If you aren't getting improved visuals, you're getting the worst of both worlds.

 

[Crap Daddy]

Only place where I think this could possibly matter is in gaming laptops... at which point the horrible power inefficiency of the CPU will be a bitter pill to swallow for it (since a laptop is used for more then just gaming).

There are Trinity based laptops since a few good months now.

 

[The Alias]

Really, anyone trying to game on these would be better off with a console. A console is generally less of a hassle, but we put up with the PC hassle because of the much improved visuals. If you aren't getting improved visuals, you're getting the worst of both worlds.

you are getting improved visuals as most games on console don't even render at 720 native . Also the experience on pc is much quicker, you don't have to worry about disks being misplaced, nor psn being taken down for months , you save ten bucks on nearly every new game that comes out compared to consoles, pcs do waayyy more than consoles ever could, not to mention kb and mouse versus the controller, also downloading speeds on consoles are abysmal . pc is just the better experience hands down

 

[The Alias]

There are Trinity based laptops since a few good months now.

that are also easier on the battery than intel counterparts as well

 

[taltamir]

There are Trinity based laptops since a few good months now.

I am aware. I made my argument with them in mind.

 

[pelov]

Brand aside, until an igpu can offer decent performance (no, getting 30 fps in some games on low settings isn't decent performance), they have no point (beyond rendering extremely basic tasks, webpages, movie viewing, etc) in my view. A slightly less sucky igpu will do that stuff no better than a pretty bad one.

It doesn't work like that. Not everyone plays BF3 at 1080p and nor do a good portion of people game at 1080p and higher. For resolutions under 1080p and for games that aren't that demanding (and let's face it, that covers nearly every single game ever created), an integrated GPU solution makes sense and isn't lacking in power.

Secondly, for Intel and AMD, they have to go through these awkward teenager periods in order to develop an iGPU that can reach the levels of performance you're suggesting. At the moment, AMD's 7660D is like that awkward teenager that has to sit in the back of his mom's minivan to get to his emo concert whereas Intel is like the toddler in the baby seat. The awkward teenage can't yet drive himself because he's not old nor mature enough but he has to go through that stage in order to grow into an adult who can drive himself.

 

[Ferzerp]

At the moment, AMD's 7660D is like that awkward teenager

And I won't date the awkward teenager just because there are no adults around. I'll wait until there is someone suitable.

Same here.

 

[pelov]

Well, I can't wait for Intel and AMD to reach a point where I can skip buying a GPU altogether, but I'm not going to dismiss the improvements in between as pointless. They definitely have a place in the market, even if it isn't for you and me.

 

[taltamir]

Well, I can't wait for Intel and AMD to reach a point where I can skip buying a GPU altogether

I can't wait till I buy a 500$ GPU that renders games that look like a pixar triple A animated movie.

 

[nemesismk2]

Poverty mentality.

I have an xbox 360 for games because i am not wasting money constantly upgrading my pc just to play the latest games.

 

[CHADBOGA]

no the mentality that there's other things to do in life then gaming at 1080p ! maybe I have a wife and kid that want to play games with me too, but instead of paying the extra hundred bucks on both the systems I save it and buy games on our steam accounts like torchlight, dota2, csgo, or items in free to play games like blacklight retribution . there's a lot you can do with an extra 100-200 bucks that'll affect you way more than higher settings ever could

Yes Poverty Mentality, because unless you are dirt poor, who the hell can't get a system that games properly at 1080p and still do all that family guff you mentioned.