Amazon workers to vote union in Alabama.

[Fenixgoon]

Factory work in the past wasn't placing a parcel into a box. It wasn't an ikea package either where they put a bolt in using an Allen wrench.

It actually required having skill such as welding.

I know this is hard stuff for you to realize

You don't think there was lots of manual work in a 1960s car factory? I know this stuff is hard for you to realize...

Video reveals how car manufacturing has changed over 50 years

High-tech factory produces more than 500,000 new cars in a year

www.independent.co.uk

 

[MrSquished]

Factory work in the past wasn't placing a parcel into a box. It wasn't an ikea package either where they put a bolt in using an Allen wrench.

It actually required having skill such as welding.

I know this is hard stuff for you to realize

I'm not talking about welders. You are really stupid. There was a lot of unskilled labor and minorly skilled labor back in the day that made actual living wages. Besides that you don't realize this actual historical fact, do you want a permanent class of full time working poor? Oh wait, don't answer that question. All conservatives are shitheads like that.

 

[Jaskalas]

Do you want a permanent class of full time working poor?

That's the big thing. Republicans are wholesale endorsing the creation of revolutionary conditions. And demanding that things stay that bad.... until....

Either we come out of it by prying their boot off the necks of workers. Or they will feel what it is like to have a hungry mob at their door. King Louis style. Fantasy and delusion must allow them to think they might enjoy causing that.

 

[skyking]

If only that door was as easy to find.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Let's do the union vote again .....

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2021-11-29/labor-official-confirms-new-election-for-amazon-workers

 

[Fenixgoon]

Let's do the union vote again .....

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2021-11-29/labor-official-confirms-new-election-for-amazon-workers

i'm sure amazon will totally not try and discourage workers from voting to unionize. again.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

They're not learning .....


Labor regulator accuses Amazon of intimidation as union drives move forward

CNET|11 minutes ago
Amazon broke labor laws in Staten Island, prosecutors for the NLRB say. A union wants a controversial mailbox removed in Alabama.

 

[mect]

Not in Alabama, but Staten Island Amazon workers just voted to unionize, and won. This makes me hopeful.

Amazon Workers on Staten Island Vote to Unionize in Landmark Win for Labor (Published 2022)

Despite heavy lobbying by the company, workers at the facility voted by a wide margin for a union. It was seen as a rebuke of the company’s treatment of its employees.

www.nytimes.com

 

[ch33zw1z]

Why do they hate America

 

[MtnMan]

Automation isn't cheaper than labor. The upkeep and over head costs are much higher than labor costs. The only reason automation is viable is that it's faster and increase their output volume, which makes up for the increased costs of automation. Automation also has devastating downsides. When a piece of that automation breaks down, causing production to halt that can last, hours, days, or even weeks depending on the problem, and sometimes, when that automation fails, it causes massive amounts of damage. Majority of the time, you don't have any option that allows you to substitute that automation with another piece of automation to keep production flowing. With labor, you have a employee call out, you have options to cover that absence with another employee, so production can continue.

It's all bean counting in the end. The bean counters see that they can take a hit in profits per unity with automation vs human labor, but because they can sell 2 to 1, they make a higher profit off those 2 combined than that 1 by itself. There is nothing that will prevent this from automation from taking over. But instead of using it as a profit motivator, it needs to be embraced as the solution to longer and better quality of life.

If people were cheaper, there would be no incentive for the bottom line focused greedy to automate.

A machine can work 24/7, doesn't get paid time off, get pregnant, doesn't complain to OSHA about unsafe working conditions, or even need a pee break.

 

[hal2kilo]

Automation will claim many jobs in the years ahead, 3D printing may as well.

We'd better get over the whole "you aren't worth anything if you don't spend your life working" mentality because there won't be near enough jobs to go around. Unless of course we don't devolve into a mad max dystopia due to climate change or another random reason first. That'll solve the automation problem! Soylent green solves a couple as well provided we are ok with human-flavored snacks.

Can't imagine how many die and tool makers that tech eliminates.

 

[Rebel_L]

No. It's not cheaper. It allows you to earn more profits thru volume, which has nothing to do with the cost to produce that product. Volume and profits do not represent production costs to produce a product. That's like trying to say it cost you less to produce hamburgers because you have two grills instead of one grill because you earn a higher profit from producing more. your productions costs don't go down just because you can produce more. If you can keep up with customer demand without automation, and you put automation, but don't have the customers to buy your product, you will lose money with automation vs human labor.

If it wasnt cheaper it wouldnt be used, you would simply higher more people to increase production at lower cost rather than using automation. We are not experiencing some sort of massive labor shortage where the only way to increase production is to use machines.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

It isn't just about cost of people power. Robots can do exactly the same thing, exactly the same way with exactly the same precision thousands of times and in less time than humans. They don't need rest breaks and can work in conditions humans cannot.

 

[Meghan54]

nm

 

[NWRMidnight]

If people were cheaper, there would be no incentive for the bottom line focused greedy to automate.

A machine can work 24/7, doesn't get paid time off, get pregnant, doesn't complain to OSHA about unsafe working conditions, or even need a pee break.

OH?

First of all, the very purpose of Automation makes human labor more efficient, and more productive. A machine can work 24/7, however it requires maintenance, which usually requires downtime, as well as unscheduled breakdowns which require manpower and parts for repairs. Usually most companies use the "band-aid" method in making repairs to get the machine back up and running, where it breaks down more often until the point where it costs them more down time and higher cost in repairs. There are also software glitches, crashes, failures etc with automation. To think that automation is the end of human workforce, or has less issues is just ignorant of reality.

 

[NWRMidnight]

If it wasnt cheaper it wouldnt be used, you would simply higher more people to increase production at lower cost rather than using automation. We are not experiencing some sort of massive labor shortage where the only way to increase production is to use machines.

Automation isn't cheaper, it makes human labor and businesses more efficient. The only way the math works out that automation is cheaper is if you do not include the costs of designing, installing, setup, ect of the automation and only include the daily basic upkeep costs. You also have to ignore major repairs, non basic maintenance costs which includes the human trained technicians/maintenance personnel, which results in downtime, upgrades and/or software updates, and replacement costs to have them be cheaper. Automation costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to Millions of dollars to get going before you can even calculate daily running costs. We have had automation for decades, long before most people even realize it, and there are many companies who "thought" automation was going to be cheaper and the way to go, only for those systems/functions to be disabled and returned back over to a real live human worker because the downtime, glitches and daily problems the automation introduced, as well as low quality results. What it ends up being is a balance between human labor and automation for the most efficient results. The best efficiency which leads to the lowest costs, requires both elements, as neither can achieve lower costs and/or efficiency without the other.

Most companies who are able to use automation effectively (Amazon for example) require a larger human workforce than those without automation. Why: Because automation and human labor go hand in hand, as automation creates jobs because human labor is needed to keep up with the efficiency the automation may create, which in turn makes them more money, even though the automation is more costly than the human labor. Example.. with human labor, a company may product 10 pieces a day which they make $5 profit on each, which is $50. With automation and human labor, they can produce 20 pieces a day, which they make $3 profit each. But because they produce 20 pieces, they make $60 a day in profit, rather than the $50 a day in profit.. it's not because automation is cheaper, it's because the automation adds efficiency, which means a company can have a higher daily output, giving them a higher profit.

Efficiency increases are a must to keep up with the demand of population growth.

 

[sportage]

With a business as big as Amazon, and the rebirth of unionization, you can bet that republicans in congress will find a way to not only nullify this new found workers freedom, but will also find a way to prevent this unionization thing from ever happening again in the future. That is.... once republicans take back control come November.
Oh you'd be quite surprised at the stunts republicans will be pulling once democrats are voted out. Republicans might even find the missing votes that Trump needs to regain power.

 

[1prophet]

With a business as big as Amazon, and the rebirth of unionization, you can bet that republicans in congress will find a way to not only nullify this new found workers freedom, but will also find a way to prevent this unionization thing from ever happening again in the future. That is.... once republicans take back control come November.
Oh you'd be quite surprised at the stunts republicans will be pulling once democrats are voted out. Republicans might even find the missing votes that Trump needs to regain power.

This common fallacy is a trick the wealthy democrats play the public with, they use the big bad republicans to get the sweetheart deals that protect their tech liberal oligarchs like Bezos and their majority rich democrats but when it comes to elections they point to republicans as the anti union bad guys when they themselves are responsible for much of the economic calamities in this country, and it started when Democrats brought in the Clintons because they wanted a win, not realizing they brought in what was a supposed party for the working class liberal democrat on the outside but in reality that was all a facade covering up a pro big business, pro death penalty wolf on the inside.

IRS data shows that Democrats — not Republicans — are now the party of the rich

Republicans often get accused of favoring big business, but data recently released by the Internal Revenue Service shows that a large majority of those making $500,000 or more actually vote Democrat. Quick Facts Data shows that 65 percent of taxpayers with a household income of $500,000 or more...

www.standingforfreedom.com

The tech liberals and gig economy routinely bypass or subvert many of the pro union pro labor rules and regulations the FDR democrats used to defend, just one example:

Uber, Lyft Influencers Find Democratic Allies Toughest to Sway

With their business model threatened in the courts and several states, Uber Technologies Inc. and Lyft Inc. have assembled all-star casts of connected Democrats to convince Congress and regulators to not classify their workers as employees.

news.bloomberglaw.com

With their business model threatened in the courts and several states, Uber Technologies Inc. and Lyft Inc. have assembled all-star casts of connected Democrats to convince Congress and regulators to not classify their workers as employees.
Influence campaigns in Washington don’t normally target the party that spends most of an administration in the political wilderness. But the onslaught of people and money reflects that Uber and Lyft’s obstacles aren’t from President Donald Trump’s Republican administration, but from Democrats, particularly if there is a power shift ahead in the White House.
The companies’ goals go against Democrats’ traditional labor allies, even pitting vice presidential candidate Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) on the opposite side of her brother-in-law, Tony West, Uber’s chief legal officer. The strategy has been more about containing damage than claiming victories.

The cadre of politically connected Democrats help Uber and Lyft market themselves to lawmakers as fundamentally different than other companies, and thus deserving of special status under federal employment law.

Summary: All Animals are Equal, Except Some Animals are More Equal than Others

But as long as they cling to the tired old narrative of Koch Bro. type influenced republicans are the majority rich few democrats are able or willing to see the transformation of their own party as the new rich because of the social justice issues many of these big businesses give lip service to in order to avoid scrutiny that republican big business would be under.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Democrats are commies, duh

 

[IronWing]

Democrats are commies, duh

He's right about the Dems of that era and Clinton, Gore, and the rest of the Southern Leadership Council gang. The Dems lost to Reagan and Bush I so they said, "screw principles" and ran the center-right Clinton/Gore ticket. It's been thirty years and the Dems are still a center-right to rightwing party. Old school New Deal liberals are still considered the embarrassing cousins in the Dem party.

 

[Ajay]

Democrats are commies, duh

I thought this was well established. That famous commie FDR started it all. Apparently he didn't know that depressions and recessions are good because they purge the weak. So long as the the wealthy aren't confused with the weak, because they deserve bailouts. bublah blah blah bublah .


Seriously though, for all their faults, unions are 100% essential to a functional fair system of capitalism. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to accept in the US. Brainwashing I guess.

 

[Ajay]

He's right about the Dems of that era and Clinton, Gore, and the rest of the Southern Leadership Council gang. The Dems lost to Reagan and Bush I so they said, "screw principles" and ran the center-right Clinton/Gore ticket. It's been thirty years and the Dems are still a center-right to rightwing party. Old school New Deal liberals are still considered the embarrassing cousins in the Dem party.

I'd say socially left, but economically center/center right. Clinton was definitely center right - I think Obama didn't really want to be but couldn't do otherwise with the economy Bush handed him. Someday I'll find a book that explains to me why this happens.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Well you wouldn't know it if you only ingest alt-facts like millions of Americans do. Biden is the socialist ninja taking over America

 

[mect]

Seriously though, for all their faults, unions are 100% essential to a functional fair system of capitalism. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to accept in the US. Brainwashing I guess.

Yes, for capitalism to work, there needs to be a balance of power between the bargaining parties. Lacking this, you end up with those in power basically telling everyone else, "Do what we want, or starve".

 

[MtnMan]

OH?

First of all, the very purpose of Automation makes human labor more efficient, and more productive. A machine can work 24/7, however it requires maintenance, which usually requires downtime, as well as unscheduled breakdowns which require manpower and parts for repairs. Usually most companies use the "band-aid" method in making repairs to get the machine back up and running, where it breaks down more often until the point where it costs them more down time and higher cost in repairs. There are also software glitches, crashes, failures etc with automation. To think that automation is the end of human workforce, or has less issues is just ignorant of reality.

And how do you make "human" labor more productive? You reduce the number of "humans". If every robot needed a full time "human" to maintain it, then automation would be a money pit.

3 shifts of "human" take breaks, eat meals, take days off, get sick, get hurt on the job, and make mistakes (software errors). Meanwhile, "robot" continues to work without interruption with a much greater MTBF.