am i supposed to be able to see mod forums?

[her209]

the police accidentally left it wide open for the pi to see it? i dunno. lol it was just a silly analogy to try and prove a point of attempting to understand the other side and give the person being accused a chance to defend themselves.

OK, let's assume for a second that the PI comes to you and says eits the police have it on file that your brother beat up his wife on this date. Did you know this? You tell the PI that you didn't know this and you know that your brother doesn't beat up his wife at all. Then you tell the PI to go tell your brother.

What if it were untrue? What if it were true? How would your brother feel if he knew that information was out there?

 

[rcpratt]

Well, eventually the disseminated information will surface through other sites. I'm curious to know what rises to the level of "jeopardizing the Forums".

The standard should be pretty high, IMHO.

Spoiler alert - it's not high. Think of the most pointless thread (besides the nef thread) on this subforum, and that was probably the most interesting thing that they found.

 

[shiner]

What some are calling dossiers are the notes that are recorded when infractions are given. This is what we have previously called a "track record".

With 100K members, maybe 100-200 are the ones that are worried; they should be; they try to cause trouble and break the guidelines.

Because of the way the new system was put into place in vB; these troublemakers are able to escape from repercussions until they cross the line multiple times in a short period. Most of the time; the system lets them slide and they know it.

I think it is more along the lines of notes being kept on people that crossed a certain person. An example would be that person bringing up something Red Dawn did or didn't do 8+ years ago that was acceptable at the time, but was dredged up after all this time to help the person's case to give Red a "significant sanction" for a perceived slight.

You know, much like Nixon kept track of people he thought had wronged him.

 

[darkxshade]

Wouldnt a gay orgy do the same thing, and with fewer consequences?

The difference is you don't wake up with regret next to a naked man you sure you don't know having had one too many drinks the night before.

 

[sixone]

Spoiler alert - it's not high. Think of the most pointless thread (besides the nef thread) on this subforum, and that was probably the most interesting thing that they found.

That is very disappointing to know. I probably had more respect this morning for the moderators here than I've had in several years...and now this.

All it takes is one bad apple, as they say.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Just to make my point clear, you're not talking about a dossier like this, right?

You are correct; This is the information that was recorded under FT. Now with the new vB the system also records the actual post.

Previously, when a member requested politely, his "track record"; most times it was provided to them via PM; never publicly.
However, if a member felt that they had to challenge the Moderators in public; at times, their embarrassing track record would be revealed to all.

It was interesting that after that point very very few could challenge the evidence of their actions and the results. They knew what was recorded was accurate; all it did was to show them up to the rest of the community. I do not recall anyone ever asking to a public posting (whipping) twice.

 

[esquared]

i apologies if i insulted you. that's not at all the intention i had.

all i was saying was that this is a mess and i don't like seeing my friends (perk, mosh, and ga) get insulted the way they've been insulted this entire thread. i was also saying that there might be a misunderstanding. i hear you, you took a lot of time arriving at a conclusion. that doesn't mean there wasn't a misunderstanding that systematically lead you to your conclusion. for example, a math equation where you accidentally plug in the wrong number for one of the variables... it may have taken you a while to complete the equation, but does it mean that the answer was correct? no.

Really, this wasn't a quick decision. It was done, with discussion, looking at the evidence and then coming up with the penalty. I understand that the penalty to you seems harsh.

Sorry for that but we take what was done seriously. If you can't see that it was serious, I can't convince you either the reasons we did what we did.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I think it is more along the lines of notes being kept on people that crossed a certain person. An example would be that person bringing up something Red Dawn did or didn't do 8+ years ago that was acceptable at the time, but was dredged up after all this time to help the person's case to give Red a "significant sanction" for a perceived slight.

You know, much like Nixon kept track of people he thought had wronged him.

In that case, who cares? I even keep notes on certain members from events that occurred years ago. Granted, I can't ban them, but that's a personal matter, nothing to do with the actions of moderators as a whole.

 

[zinfamous]

Cripes...so I've been away for a bit (discovered that Amazon Prime gets me free streaming of 4 seasons of Monty Python's Flying Circus :awe and this is what happens.


Sorry I let everyone down...but I'm still not done with Season 1, so carry on.

All seasons of MPFC are available on Netflix.

^_^

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

In that case, who cares? I even keep notes on certain members from events that occurred years ago. Granted, I can't ban them, but that's a personal matter, nothing to do with the actions of moderators as a whole.

"Write his name down!"
"Now, strike a line though it."
"That for him!"
:biggrin:

 

[Infohawk]

Questions
Beyond the threads in the Mod Discussion forum, what specific information was viewable to members? Infraction records? Names and email addresses? IP addresses?

I see a lot of blaming of members who took advantage of it (which is fine) but what about the forum leaders taking some responsibility for how this happened? If they have allowed members' private data to be viewed, where is an apology?

Forum Issues Generally & Considerations for Anand
Forum drama and distrust has been on the rise for a while now and it's reaching alarming levels now. Regardless of specific allegations regarding reading PMs, there are clearly respectable members (including former mods) who's complaints can't simply be brushed aside. It seems like these kind of tech forums are becoming less and less popular as computers are increasingly commoditized. Yet the "social" subforums are big draws and they require a certain amount of trust and respect for the mods to stay active. If one doesn't want to see a mass exodus, some of these concerns have to be addressed.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the mods are even allowing some of this discussion to happen, because generally there is no way for forum members to voice their concerns about moderation. This event aside, the Mod Discussions forum is basically a black-hole where members can be ignored or where mods can apply different standards to different people without even having to appear consistent.

I hope the forum leadership uses this thread to really listen to the members and ideally to make some changes...

 

[MotF Bane]

What some are calling dossiers are the notes that are recorded when infractions are given. This is what we have previously called a "track record".

With 100K members, maybe 100-200 are the ones that are worried; they should be; they try to cause trouble and break the guidelines.

Because of the way the new system was put into place in vB; these troublemakers are able to escape from repercussions until they cross the line multiple times in a short period. Most of the time; the system lets them slide and they know it.

Out of 100k members, how many are actually regularly active though? 2k? 3k?

 

[shiner]

You are correct; This is the information that was recorded under FT. Now with the new vB the system also records the actual post.

Previously, when a member requested politely, his "track record"; most times it was provided to them via PM; never publicly.
However, if a member felt that they had to challenge the Moderators in public; at times, their embarrassing track record would be revealed to all.

It was interesting that after that point very very few could challenge the evidence of their actions and the results. They knew what was recorded was accurate; all it did was to show them up to the rest of the community. I do not recall anyone ever asking to a public posting (whipping) twice.

From what I hear you are correctly, technically.

However when you have former mods/directors saying that another mod keeps a dossier/notes/whatever on his own outside of the forums it is pretty eyebrow raising stuff.

What is the truth? We can't say for sure without having everything laid out before us, but there seems to be an abundance of evidence that what the former mods are saying is true.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I think it is more along the lines of notes being kept on people that crossed a certain person. An example would be that person bringing up something Red Dawn did or didn't do 8+ years ago that was acceptable at the time, but was dredged up after all this time to help the person's case to give Red a "significant sanction" for a perceived slight.

You know, much like Nixon kept track of people he thought had wronged him.

From what I hear you are correctly, technically.

However when you have former mods/directors saying that another mod keeps a dossier/notes/whatever on his own outside of the forums it is pretty eyebrow raising stuff.

What is the truth? We can't say for sure without having everything laid out before us, but there seems to be an abundance of evidence that what the former mods are saying is true.

A Moderator may keep notes; just like a user can keep notes on a Moderator that they feel is out to get them.

Any evidence that a Moderator needs to justify actions IS OBTAINED via searches of posts.

IF a decision is to be made, it is based on the posts that any person can dredge up, not just a Moderator.

A Moderator may provide posts that they feel are required to justify a request for action to the rest of the Moderators.

Multiple times; requests have been denied because of the posts content is not considered to be worth the consequence and/or the required information is dated and the member seems to have shaped up and become a productive AT citizen.

 

[MotF Bane]

In that case, who cares? I even keep notes on certain members from events that occurred years ago. Granted, I can't ban them, but that's a personal matter, nothing to do with the actions of moderators as a whole.

:rofl:

 

[zinfamous]

Seems obvious to me. It's similar to high ruling officials, say, members of a monarchy, using their powers to spy on and invade the privacy of oppressed minorities in said monarchy.

except...this is a fucking online forum

 

[Anubis]

Ignore him. He's got ocean madness.

ocean madness is no excuse for ocean rudeness

 

[shiner]

In that case, who cares? I even keep notes on certain members from events that occurred years ago. Granted, I can't ban them, but that's a personal matter, nothing to do with the actions of moderators as a whole.

That's the difference. If someone in a position of power is keeping that sort of information either as a part of their duties here or on their own outside of the forums and then using it to base disciplinary actions within the forum on it is an abuse of power.

 

[esquared]

I think it is more along the lines of notes being kept on people that crossed a certain person. An example would be that person bringing up something Red Dawn did or didn't do 8+ years ago that was acceptable at the time, but was dredged up after all this time to help the person's case to give Red a "significant sanction" for a perceived slight.

You know, much like Nixon kept track of people he thought had wronged him.

You are confusing us with another forum. As I said, no dossiers.

There are notes on people but every member has the notes box. Some people who have had no infractions have zero notes. The ones who have had infractions have info based on that infraction. The more infractions, the more notes. More infractions turn to vacations.
We have to document all that we do when giving out infraction/vacations.

This way no mod can get away with just banning or vacationing people. It's all documented

How do you think we know how long to give a recidivist member a vacation without knowing the history of his notes

Just ask any former mod. He she will confirm everything I have just written

Now if that is what you call dossiers..............

 

[shiner]

A Moderator may keep notes; just like a user can keep notes on a Moderator that they feel is out to get them.

Any evidence that a Moderator needs to justify actions IS OBTAINED via searches of posts.

IF a decision is to be made, it is based on the posts that any person can dredge up, not just a Moderator.

A Moderator may provide posts that they feel are required to justify a request for action to the rest of the Moderators.

Multiple times; requests have been denied because of the posts content is not considered to be worth the consequence and/or the required information is dated and the member seems to have shaped up and become a productive AT citizen.

You're a good guy, thanks for taking the time to reply to these posts.

No, I'm not kissing ass.

 

[shortylickens]

ocean madness is no excuse for ocean rudeness

:awe:

 

[darkxshade]

Now if that is what you call dossiers..............

Wellllll.... to not call a track record as lengthy as GAs a dossier is pretty much a matter of opinion.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Out of 100k members, how many are actually regularly active though? 2k? 3k?

What is your criteria for active?

ppd
Viewing for weeks and then making a posts.


When one logs in; there is a list of people that are signed on. Some may not post; are they active in that time frame?

 

[Andrew111]

#3) GA with Mosh "removed" information for the restricted area and started to distribute such. This information was verified by PM logs. This is equivalent to stealing money from the vault and/or mapping out the security system to a vault for a repeat breakin. - They knew what they were doing was wrong. NOT ACCEPTABLE

Sure it's equivalent I don't think it's acceptable for the mods to break into peoples PMs....it was one of the mods who was incompetent and opened up the mod forums. It's fair game then until you fix YOUR mistake which should have been rather immediate. Banning people for planning to distribute what they found there? Obviously the mods were concerned about what was discussed in the mod forums (tin foil hat NOT required).....anyone who has visited these forums for any length of time will pick up on a few mods that play fast and loose with the rules and harbor grudges toward members (and I bet mosh simply had the proof when she already knew some mods were pretty unscrupulous). It's HIGHLY unfortunate that the other mods allow it to occur....and now I see you opted to ban bamacre for speaking the truth about one of these mods. I can only wonder who deemed it acceptable to root into peoples PMs......

Hopefully this incident will serve as a wake up call for the mods to act more appropriately in the future....or perhaps not and you'll continue banning members left and right for YOUR mistake and protecting mods who don't deserve ANY protection for the crap they pull.

 

[olds]

...

Now if that is what you call dossiers, you are an illiterate dumbass.

ftfy