Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

With the release of Alder Lake less than a week away and the "Lakes" thread having turned into a nightmare to navigate I thought it might be a good time to start a discussion thread solely for Alder Lake.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Samsung Galaxy Book 2

Let fools buy it at that price.

 

[coercitiv]

Those low power cpu like pentium 8505 or i3 1215u made whole used market obsolete.

Not Laptop couple of Handheld from Aya and Ayn one cost $299 and other $270. They just anounced them no availability.

So the Pentium 8505 made the used market obsolete, except you can't buy it in a cheap device today?

 

[IntelUser2000]

@hemedans You can't really compare those mini laptop pricing to regular new laptops. I doubt they are making money at that price. You lure them in with the promise of ultra low prices and tack on expensive upgrades. That's the reason upgrades cost so much more than what they would sell otherwise - convenience.

Also I don't know if it matters but the cheap options are coming end of this year.

Considering hinge failure on my HP "Probook" and the ever declining screen quality of my XPS 12, I'm starting to think a new device makes a lot of sense now.

 

[Roland00Address]

I specifically mentioned pentium 8505, which can be found in devices under $300.

I tried searching for it. Didn't find a single laptop using it so far. Mind sharing a link?

Not Laptop couple of Handheld from Aya and Ayn one cost $299 and other $270. They just anounced them no availability.

Does anyone have a good link to a review for the pentium 8505 with relevant benchmarks? I am curious for i5 6th generation, i5 7th generation, i3 10th generation is so cheap now a days. (Aka quad core parts that play in the 3 to 4 ghz range. Though sometimes slower if you get a T part for energy efficiency.)

Like i5 7400t, 16gb ram, 512 ssd for $230s (windows 11 compatible), or 8gb ram, 256 gb ssd for $180s (still windows 11), or a non windows 11 compatible i5 6500, 8gb, 256gb ssd for $140s. All of this is used / renewed / refurbished of course … but from the outside this is still great hardware even if times have changed. Likewise if you go laptop you can get an i5-1035G1 16gb, 256gb ssd for $320s also refurbished.

 

[hemedans]

So the Pentium 8505 made the used market obsolete, except you can't buy it in a cheap device today?

You cant buy most Alderlake "U" series now, but you will later.

And i mention two cpu there, i3 1215u is already available, one model cost around $500 with mx550.

ACER ASPIRE 3 A315-59G-39AV is available in Asian countries.

Other Model cost $480 without dedicated Gpu, Hp pavilion 14t-dv200 at Hp website.

That i3 is more powerfull than all intel Cpu from 11th gen and below at same Tdp icluding i7 1165G7. So why should someone buy used Pc?

 

[hemedans]

Does anyone have a good link to a review for the pentium 8505 with relevant benchmarks? I am curious for i5 6th generation, i5 7th generation, i3 10th generation is so cheap now a days. (Aka quad core parts that play in the 3 to 4 ghz range. Though sometimes slower if you get a T part for energy efficiency.)

Like i5 7400t, 16gb ram, 512 ssd for $230s (windows 11 compatible), or 8gb ram, 256 gb ssd for $180s (still windows 11), or a non windows 11 compatible i5 6500, 8gb, 256gb ssd for $140s. All of this is used / renewed / refurbished of course … but from the outside this is still great hardware even if times have changed. Likewise if you go laptop you can get an i5-1035G1 16gb, 256gb ssd for $320s also refurbished.

Passmark has few entries of 8505 (only 2 sample),

PassMark - Intel Pentium Gold 8505 - Price performance comparison

Also Taki II has some videos uoloaded in youtube for emulation and Gaming.

 

[coercitiv]

So why should someone buy used Pc?

First of all, I was kindly pointing out you were using past tense for a product that will affect the market in the future.

Second, used/refurbished laptop market isn't only about CPU performance, It's a choice you make based on the balance between asking price and the quality of the entire system (frame, screen, I/O, etc). The i7 1165G7 from your example is a great CPU for someone looking for a cheaper used/refurbished unit, and chances are it will be part of a much better built system than the i3 1215u.

If you were to present me with a choice between a 1165G7 system and a 1215u system, I would definitely not choose on CPU alone, because the TGL CPU is still more than capable to meet my daily demands in a mobile machine. For the right price or the right system specs, the used market will definitely not be obsolete when budget Alder Lake is available in sufficient laptops on the shelves. (and notice I'm completely ignoring AMD here to keep the discussion simple and focused)

I like what Alder Lake offers at the low end, it's a very healthy increase in performance for the average user. Not a revolution though, not for the average Joe.

 

[hemedans]

First of all, I was kindly pointing out you were using past tense for a product that will affect the market in the future.

Second, used/refurbished laptop market isn't only about CPU performance, It's a choice you make based on the balance between asking price and the quality of the entire system (frame, screen, I/O, etc). The i7 1165G7 from your example is a great CPU for someone looking for a cheaper used/refurbished unit, and chances are it will be part of a much better built system than the i3 1215u.

If you were to present me with a choice between a 1165G7 system and a 1215u system, I would definitely not choose on CPU alone, because the TGL CPU is still more than capable to meet my daily demands in a mobile machine. For the right price or the right system specs, the used market will definitely not be obsolete when budget Alder Lake is available in sufficient laptops on the shelves. (and notice I'm completely ignoring AMD here to keep the discussion simple and focused)

I like what Alder Lake offers at the low end, it's a very healthy increase in performance for the average user. Not a revolution though, not for the average Joe.

As someone from 3rd world countries for us its Revolution, just imagine moving from i3 115G4 to i3 1215u or i3 1220p thats 100 to 200% perfomance jump in one generation.

And majority of people look for perfomance/affordability ratio, people have just one or two device for all computing needs, they dont have luxury to choose i7 Tiger lake over i3 alderlake, some buy laptop as dekstop replacement because of unreliable electricity.

Also used laptop with premium materials tend to cost more in repairs, just Display of Highend laptop can cost more than full laptop with i3.

 

[dullard]

As someone from 3rd world countries for us its Revolution, just imagine moving from i3 115G4 to i3 1215u or i3 1220p thats 100 to 200% perfomance jump in one generation.

And majority of people look for perfomance/affordability ratio, people have just one or two device for all computing needs, they dont have luxury to choose i7 Tiger lake over i3 alderlake, some buy laptop as dekstop replacement because of unreliable electricity.

Also used laptop with premium materials tend to cost more in repairs, just Display of Highend laptop can cost more than full laptop with i3.

Thank you for bringing in your experience on a personal level. Many of us on this forum are technology enthusiasts from America. Thus, many of us can buy an i7 chip with a typical day's salary (that is only true if we haven't destroyed our finances through some other method). It is always good to stay grounded and remember that this is not true for the majority of the world.

 

[Roland00Address]

That i3 is more powerfull than all intel Cpu from 11th gen and below at same Tdp icluding i7 1165G7. So why should someone buy used Pc?

$240 and less is a different market than $500ish. The $240 or less is a great 2nd / 3rd / 4th pc price in my lifestyle. Oh I want to have a treadmill with a a computer and monitor and have full capabilities while walking / running. Or something for the living room, or the kitchen, and so on. Impulse buys, 2nd computers in the house in case something goes wrong, etc. Appliance uses in other words. Connect a monitor or tv to the device and you have a fast enough computer.

Passmark has few entries of 8505 (only 2 sample),

PassMark - Intel Pentium Gold 8505 - Price performance comparison

Also Taki II has some videos uoloaded in youtube for emulation and Gaming.

So interesting, trades blows with the 7600 series of Kabylake (non T), note do not look at the single thread or multi threaded assembled results but instead of the 9 tests they perform. Some the Alderlake is faster by a large amount, some the older Kabylake is faster by a large amount, and some they are roughly the same.

 

[Hulk]

Anybody come across any good reviews of Alder "U" 8+2 parts?

 

[jpiniero]

Anybody come across any good reviews of Alder "U" 8+2 parts?

2+8, and here's one from NBC that I think was mentioned earlier:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-1255U-debut-Dell-Inspiron-14-7420-2-in-1-convertible-review.626491.0.html

 

[bononos]

Yes, flimsy motherboards. $210 flimsy motherboards.

Is the problem with the motherboard ILM or the cpu heatspreader? Or both?
The GN video showed that one half of the cpu wasn't getting good contact because of the ILM which could compound the bowing heatspreader issue.

 

[dark zero]

2+8, and here's one from NBC that I think was mentioned earlier:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-1255U-debut-Dell-Inspiron-14-7420-2-in-1-convertible-review.626491.0.html

So, single core wise is decent but multi core wise has issues?
Also their iGPU is on par of AMD's one... from the previous gen

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545017805539614720

What you get with ADL consuming 1W.

 

[Exist50]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545017805539614720

View attachment 64169

What you get with ADL consuming 1W.

It's likely not actually consuming 1W. 400MHz is minimum frequency, but that's probably insufficient to hit 1W.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Alder Lake’s Caching and Power Efficiency – Chips and Cheese



Golden Cove L2 cache power usage is good, especially considering it's more than double in capacity compared to Zen 3's.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why can’t Intel’s 12th-gen CPUs pass the bar exam? Blame the E-cores | Ars Technica

I saw the headline and I was like, WHAT??? Turns out, it's those pesky E-cores!

 

[DrMrLordX]

I saw the headline and I was like, WHAT??? Turns out, it's those pesky E-cores!

It's the same thing as with all the Denuvo titles that wouldn't run on Alder Lake.

 

[igor_kavinski]

It's the same thing as with all the Denuvo titles that wouldn't run on Alder Lake.

I'm curious what the "automatic virtual machine check" has to do with E-cores?

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'm curious what the "automatic virtual machine check" has to do with E-cores?

As with the Denuvo episode, the software apparently thinks that the separate bank of cores amounts to a virtual machine. Whether Thread Director is somehow responsible for this behavior is not entirely clear.

 

[moinmoin]

I'm curious what the "automatic virtual machine check" has to do with E-cores?

Some program logic checks whether the processor's properties seem to magically change at runtime which should only happen within virtual machines where properties are flexible due to being virtualized. But with ADL there are actually two different kinds of cores with different properties. The scheduler moves the program's process between these two kinds, program logic detects that the processor's properties actually have magically changed, bam!

 

[coercitiv]

I'm curious what the "automatic virtual machine check" has to do with E-cores?

From the article you read and linked in the thread:

Apps that haven't been updated sometimes see the two different types of CPU cores available to them and assume that they are actually seeing two entirely separate PCs. This was the reason why some video game DRM and anti-cheat software packages needed updates or workarounds to run on 12th-gen CPUs.

Intel said at the time that the affected software was detecting the E-cores "as another system," which could also explain why the Examplify software thinks it's running in a virtual machine—it sees that there's a layer of abstraction between it and the CPU, and it refuses to run.

 

[igor_kavinski]

From the article you read and linked in the thread:

Thanks but the article doesn't explain it very well. moinmoin's explanation makes more sense that the process checks the CPU ID info every time it moves to a different core and halts in case there is any change.

 

[Tech Junky]

Why can’t Intel’s 12th-gen CPUs pass the bar exam? Blame the E-cores | Ars Technica

I saw the headline and I was like, WHAT??? Turns out, it's those pesky E-cores!

I saw the same thing and it just means crappy coding on their part as this will be a bigger issue on Mac's and AMD soon as well this fall with Zen4. Well, maybe not as much with AMD yet...