Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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Those low power cpu like pentium 8505 or i3 1215u made whole used market obsolete.
Not Laptop couple of Handheld from Aya and Ayn one cost $299 and other $270. They just anounced them no availability.
So the Pentium 8505 made the used market obsolete, except you can't buy it in a cheap device today?
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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@hemedans You can't really compare those mini laptop pricing to regular new laptops. I doubt they are making money at that price. You lure them in with the promise of ultra low prices and tack on expensive upgrades. That's the reason upgrades cost so much more than what they would sell otherwise - convenience.

Also I don't know if it matters but the cheap options are coming end of this year.

Considering hinge failure on my HP "Probook" and the ever declining screen quality of my XPS 12, I'm starting to think a new device makes a lot of sense now.
 
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Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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I specifically mentioned pentium 8505, which can be found in devices under $300.
I tried searching for it. Didn't find a single laptop using it so far. Mind sharing a link?
Not Laptop couple of Handheld from Aya and Ayn one cost $299 and other $270. They just anounced them no availability.

Does anyone have a good link to a review for the pentium 8505 with relevant benchmarks? I am curious for i5 6th generation, i5 7th generation, i3 10th generation is so cheap now a days. (Aka quad core parts that play in the 3 to 4 ghz range. Though sometimes slower if you get a T part for energy efficiency.)

Like i5 7400t, 16gb ram, 512 ssd for $230s (windows 11 compatible), or 8gb ram, 256 gb ssd for $180s (still windows 11), or a non windows 11 compatible i5 6500, 8gb, 256gb ssd for $140s. All of this is used / renewed / refurbished of course … but from the outside this is still great hardware even if times have changed. Likewise if you go laptop you can get an i5-1035G1 16gb, 256gb ssd for $320s also refurbished.
 

hemedans

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Jan 31, 2015
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So the Pentium 8505 made the used market obsolete, except you can't buy it in a cheap device today?
You cant buy most Alderlake "U" series now, but you will later.

And i mention two cpu there, i3 1215u is already available, one model cost around $500 with mx550.

ACER ASPIRE 3 A315-59G-39AV is available in Asian countries.

Other Model cost $480 without dedicated Gpu, Hp pavilion 14t-dv200 at Hp website.

That i3 is more powerfull than all intel Cpu from 11th gen and below at same Tdp icluding i7 1165G7. So why should someone buy used Pc?
 

hemedans

Member
Jan 31, 2015
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Does anyone have a good link to a review for the pentium 8505 with relevant benchmarks? I am curious for i5 6th generation, i5 7th generation, i3 10th generation is so cheap now a days. (Aka quad core parts that play in the 3 to 4 ghz range. Though sometimes slower if you get a T part for energy efficiency.)

Like i5 7400t, 16gb ram, 512 ssd for $230s (windows 11 compatible), or 8gb ram, 256 gb ssd for $180s (still windows 11), or a non windows 11 compatible i5 6500, 8gb, 256gb ssd for $140s. All of this is used / renewed / refurbished of course … but from the outside this is still great hardware even if times have changed. Likewise if you go laptop you can get an i5-1035G1 16gb, 256gb ssd for $320s also refurbished.
Passmark has few entries of 8505 (only 2 sample),

Also Taki II has some videos uoloaded in youtube for emulation and Gaming.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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So why should someone buy used Pc?
First of all, I was kindly pointing out you were using past tense for a product that will affect the market in the future.

Second, used/refurbished laptop market isn't only about CPU performance, It's a choice you make based on the balance between asking price and the quality of the entire system (frame, screen, I/O, etc). The i7 1165G7 from your example is a great CPU for someone looking for a cheaper used/refurbished unit, and chances are it will be part of a much better built system than the i3 1215u.

If you were to present me with a choice between a 1165G7 system and a 1215u system, I would definitely not choose on CPU alone, because the TGL CPU is still more than capable to meet my daily demands in a mobile machine. For the right price or the right system specs, the used market will definitely not be obsolete when budget Alder Lake is available in sufficient laptops on the shelves. (and notice I'm completely ignoring AMD here to keep the discussion simple and focused)

I like what Alder Lake offers at the low end, it's a very healthy increase in performance for the average user. Not a revolution though, not for the average Joe.
 

hemedans

Member
Jan 31, 2015
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First of all, I was kindly pointing out you were using past tense for a product that will affect the market in the future.

Second, used/refurbished laptop market isn't only about CPU performance, It's a choice you make based on the balance between asking price and the quality of the entire system (frame, screen, I/O, etc). The i7 1165G7 from your example is a great CPU for someone looking for a cheaper used/refurbished unit, and chances are it will be part of a much better built system than the i3 1215u.

If you were to present me with a choice between a 1165G7 system and a 1215u system, I would definitely not choose on CPU alone, because the TGL CPU is still more than capable to meet my daily demands in a mobile machine. For the right price or the right system specs, the used market will definitely not be obsolete when budget Alder Lake is available in sufficient laptops on the shelves. (and notice I'm completely ignoring AMD here to keep the discussion simple and focused)

I like what Alder Lake offers at the low end, it's a very healthy increase in performance for the average user. Not a revolution though, not for the average Joe.
As someone from 3rd world countries for us its Revolution, just imagine moving from i3 115G4 to i3 1215u or i3 1220p thats 100 to 200% perfomance jump in one generation.

And majority of people look for perfomance/affordability ratio, people have just one or two device for all computing needs, they dont have luxury to choose i7 Tiger lake over i3 alderlake, some buy laptop as dekstop replacement because of unreliable electricity.

Also used laptop with premium materials tend to cost more in repairs, just Display of Highend laptop can cost more than full laptop with i3.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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As someone from 3rd world countries for us its Revolution, just imagine moving from i3 115G4 to i3 1215u or i3 1220p thats 100 to 200% perfomance jump in one generation.

And majority of people look for perfomance/affordability ratio, people have just one or two device for all computing needs, they dont have luxury to choose i7 Tiger lake over i3 alderlake, some buy laptop as dekstop replacement because of unreliable electricity.

Also used laptop with premium materials tend to cost more in repairs, just Display of Highend laptop can cost more than full laptop with i3.
Thank you for bringing in your experience on a personal level. Many of us on this forum are technology enthusiasts from America. Thus, many of us can buy an i7 chip with a typical day's salary (that is only true if we haven't destroyed our finances through some other method). It is always good to stay grounded and remember that this is not true for the majority of the world.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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That i3 is more powerfull than all intel Cpu from 11th gen and below at same Tdp icluding i7 1165G7. So why should someone buy used Pc?

$240 and less is a different market than $500ish. The $240 or less is a great 2nd / 3rd / 4th pc price in my lifestyle. Oh I want to have a treadmill with a a computer and monitor and have full capabilities while walking / running. Or something for the living room, or the kitchen, and so on. Impulse buys, 2nd computers in the house in case something goes wrong, etc. Appliance uses in other words. Connect a monitor or tv to the device and you have a fast enough computer.

Passmark has few entries of 8505 (only 2 sample),

Also Taki II has some videos uoloaded in youtube for emulation and Gaming.

So interesting, trades blows with the 7600 series of Kabylake (non T), note do not look at the single thread or multi threaded assembled results but instead of the 9 tests they perform. Some the Alderlake is faster by a large amount, some the older Kabylake is faster by a large amount, and some they are roughly the same.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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I'm curious what the "automatic virtual machine check" has to do with E-cores?
Some program logic checks whether the processor's properties seem to magically change at runtime which should only happen within virtual machines where properties are flexible due to being virtualized. But with ADL there are actually two different kinds of cores with different properties. The scheduler moves the program's process between these two kinds, program logic detects that the processor's properties actually have magically changed, bam!
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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I'm curious what the "automatic virtual machine check" has to do with E-cores?
From the article you read and linked in the thread:
Apps that haven't been updated sometimes see the two different types of CPU cores available to them and assume that they are actually seeing two entirely separate PCs. This was the reason why some video game DRM and anti-cheat software packages needed updates or workarounds to run on 12th-gen CPUs.

Intel said at the time that the affected software was detecting the E-cores "as another system," which could also explain why the Examplify software thinks it's running in a virtual machine—it sees that there's a layer of abstraction between it and the CPU, and it refuses to run.
 
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